Hey BIG PAPA - What happened at BOD meeting?

What happened at the ATA BOD meeting? I hear it was a zoom meeting. What changed? Was the false form 990 mentioned? Target changes?

 

Not much. Michigan’s Darryl Hayes elected as President, no bylaw changes, a rule change was proposed and discussed but it’s not worded right so it will be reworded and presented next year. The ATA did very well with investments, adding about $5,000,000 to their net worth last year, now around $24.2 million.
Much of the 3 hour meeting was spent on a motion from the NC Delegate to raise the daily fee. After much discussion and two votes, it was voted down 24 nays, 21 yeahs. Kind of hard to believe that this was proposed given how much money the ATA made last year.

 

Turbine - Why did the NC Delegate feel there was a need to raise the daily fee?

 

As near as I could tell, it was because the ATA’s administrative and general expenses were quite large and need to get larger. These expenses include the office expenses in Sparta, the cost of mailing things out, computer and online services, and the cost of trophies for state shoots. These expenses are expected to increase with changes in the State’s minimum wage. But, it seems to me that when you are making that much from investments, a small bit of that income can be used to avoid burdening the shooters who are already paying much more for ammo when they can find it. I don’t and didn’t support an increase at this time.

 

I believe if they had done a roll-call vote there would have been more nays. Every ATA member should ask their delegate how he voted.

Ron Burdick

 

Keep it up and they will " fee" themselves right out of business.

 

Turbine,
Thanks for the update. Our shooting friends in Michigan are fortunate to have both you. A couple of thoughts come to mind while reading this thread. First, if the ATA feels they need to generate more money in daily fees perhaps they could access them at the Grand. Daily fees are mandatory at every ATA shoot in the country EXCEPT the Grand. Seems like that would be low hanging fruit.
Second thought is a bit more involved. Almost every company in the world had to make changes in the way they did business because of COVID. Many businesses have found some of the changes to be advantageous and will be adopting those changes on a permanent basis. The ATA was forced to hold this years annual meeting via Zoom due to COVID. Now that we know that process was successful and well attended, I see no reason to continue allowing the Executive Committee to make any and all decisions during the year without BOD input. If the BOD can be assembled for a zoom meeting once a month, the reasons for granting the EC full powers of the BOD has been rendered moot. Thoughts?

 

Don:
There are going to be some people that won't like to hear that idea of yours.
Myself, I think it is a good idea

Ron Burdick

 

you are right on duck dog

 

Don,
First, thanks for the kind words. Second, I like the idea of a daily fee at the Grand. I will carry that forward. On your third point, the Zoom meeting was less than a perfect success. Some people could only connect by telephone and I used my entire monthly allocation of high speed internet. (My wife is pissed at this but a new month starts on the 10th.). Yes, I believe that there are changes that the ATA can make (more work from home, reducing travel expenses, and stopping EC give-aways for example) to reduce costs and maybe even improve service. In my working days, my experience with large committees was that they are extremely resistant to changes and that it often takes 2 or 3 years to make any change even when everyone agrees that a change is urgently needed. I spent 25 years working with a committee which set engineering standards for nuclear power plants. The 50 members met quarterly for about 5 years and accomplished very little. There were almost always a few people (but enough so that a Standard could not be approved) that wanted a comma moved or a few words changed and every now and then someone who just didn’t want to comply with the proposed changes. Three sub-committees were formed (two technical teams and an executive team) and everything worked much better. The tech teams wrote Standards, the executive team approved them and the entire group meetings were reduced to twice a year (in much better places - Bermuda is really excellent in April!) and mostly for information.
So, my experience suggests that large committees are very resistant to change. If we want no change, that would be the way to go.

 

Turbine,

What was the proposed rule change?

Thanks

 

Turbine,

Why were there no roll call votes? I am confused. There was a vote on something as important as raising everyone’s daily fees. Raising possibly millions in at least a few minds….or making the decision not do do that, and no one at the meeting made a motion to do a roll call vote?

Should I be surprised? I am not sure why we have elections for delegates.

Please help me understand.

 

An organization that increased it’s net worth by 25% (5 million) and is a 501c3? How much revenue did they make thru normal operations? How much of the 5 million is going to be spent on the members or promoting trap?

Yikes!

The ATA is looking much like an illegal investment slush fund.

 

You didn’t support it you said? And you say you didn’t ask for a recorded roll call vote? You kept it a secret vote. And everyone in the room agreed to keep it a secret vote? And you are the honest person that was looking out for the members by helping keep this crap behind closed doors.

Turbine

I would like to thank you for coming here to show how transparent you are about having no transparency. I am guessing they voted you as being the best spokesperson. I expected nothing better.

 

We have to ask but we can never know? Send in the clowns.

 

the NC delegate is a major vendor--some how he thinks increased fees will help the sport

 

This is how we police our sport. Vendors become delegates and executive directors. And no delegate accountability. What could go wrong?

 

Would any changes have hurt Gipsons’s income? It sounds like a higher profit might have increased his bonus structure?

Was that brought up at the meeting?

 

More $ into the ATA, no matter where it comes from='s bigger bonuses & delegate perks

 

Hmmmmm. So a vendor helps out $$$ in the ED’s pocket? We don’t know for sure. Unless a delegate was in the room that saw Gipson’s contract. Is that possible?

 

Nothing to see

 

Bob Schultz from Target Shotguns is the North Carolina Delegate. Who prodded Schultz?

 

I was going to ask who the delegate was so thanks.

 

The ATA turned a 5 million dollar profit and supposedly someone wanted to raise the fees. They can’t find more trapshooters so get more jack from what is left.

How about we use Hillary’s reset button and go back to 93’.

 

I’ll try to provide useful answers as it may be the case that I’m the only Delegate posting here.
Dobyns: The proposed rule change deals with the confusion that happens when a category shooter signs up but has a birthday that moves him/her out of that category before receipt of the ATA Card. The proposal wasn’t worded correctly so there may be a change next year.
Family Guy: Yes, you do seem confused. Millions? The mythical average shooter pays daily fees about 8 times per year. Elections are held because it’s required by the rules. You know how I voted, if you want to know how your Delegate voted, ask him or her. If you feel you can’t trust them to answer such a question, work to get a new, better Delegate.

Jersey Giant: I would really like to get out of Sparta. The ATA should own it’s own facility in a State that doesn’t hate guns. To do this when the lease expires in a few years will take lots of money. I’m okay with making money if it’s to be used to escape from “the great facility in the middle of a vast wasteland”.
Smithy: Ad hominem attacks don’t merit useful responses.

 

Turbine…..this is where I have to respectfully disagree.

I know what you said you voted. For some reason you guys collectively hid your votes. That is shameful. I know what 2012Pull was. Do you? What have you guys done about it?

I know about the HOF belonging to Illinois. This forum exposed that. This forum exposed the ATA doubling the numbers at the grand a few years ago. We forced the retraction. This forum and Assistant AG Pasquale forced you guys to quit giving each other the illegal free K80s. The BOD was forced to change the bylaws.

A question was asked about Gipson’s contract. I bet you didn’t write it, even though the ATA filed a false form 990 saying the delegates established the bonus plan. You guys kept that a secret.

We have more on file.

I respect your earned status but preaching from your pulpit about trust is a reach. Please tell us which delegates voted yay and nay. That shouldn’t take much time. What is there to hide?

 

F.G. I certainly enjoy your fine photos and our brief meeting at the Cardinal Center recently. Yes, I do know what “Pull 2012” is, and the HOF wasn’t done anywhere near right. Both significantly predate my terms as a Delegate and are close to being before my predecessor in this role.
On Gipson’s contract, like most Delegates, I’ve never seen it. The power to write and approve such documents was long ago granted to the EC by the Delegates. So, the 990 may well be correct as it was approved by an approved proxy of the Delegates. You don’t have to agree with that or like it, but it’s a position with some substantial justification.
You have again asked me how other Delegates voted. I again answer, ask your Delegate. You act as if secret ballots are somehow shameful. They are not. They are in common use and really the only way to conduct voting on zoom meetings. The initial role call took considerable time (with all the required muting and un-muting) and had to be revised as people dropped off and rejoined. Two role call votes would likely have added 30 or more minutes to an already overly long meeting without changing anything.

 

Turbine I'm calling BS on your reasoning. First 30 minutes is nothing, if you can't be inconvenienced for 30 minutes you shouldn't be a delegate. You are the problem when you didn't demand a roll call vote. When I was on the OSTA board we roll called every vote. You might do it different in Michigan, I don't even know if you have meetings in Michigan but then again Ohio has never had to ask for DONATIONS to stay afloat and I know Michigan has done that many times in the past and will likely have to do it again in the future.

When I started shooting Hugh Driggs was the Michigan delegate. Hugh was a man of honor who did his job. Then Michigan produced Joe Loving who was a serial abuser. I can only stand about so much BS and crocodile tears, Do your damn job. The delegates are worthless shills for the EC and you should know that if you are a man of honor like Hugh or more likely in the Loving model.

 

Turbine, thank you for the answer to my question. Having said that, having to wait another year for this proposal or any proposal to be presented again implies that ATA management has not implemented or modified processes that are required to make the ATA great again (MAGA).