Hey Family Guy - What's with no ammo at Cardinal Classic? Why ask you?

FG

Several people said to ask you where the ammo is. What's the story? Why no ammo? Conspiracy?

 

Jim from Canton....

Maybe you should be contacting your delegate. Why ask the Ohio delegate? Because the ammo was sold at the Grand. It could have been shipped to Ohio. All year the ammo has been rotated around between big shoots. It was whatever was good for the sport.

Near the end of the shoot in Sparta, the announcement came to show up for your five flats of ammo. Of course turnout was low at the Grand. Lots of ammo available. So there was a repeat and repeat again for more five flats of ammo.

If it was in the best interest of the ATA shooters to have ammo at the CC this week, the Executive Director would have made sure the ammo was available. Did the ED get a bonus for selling it? Who knows?

If the delegate thought it was in the best interest of the ATA shooters to have ammo at the CC this week, I am sure he would have mentioned it to Mr. Gipson. Evidently someone didn't think there was much value in that. Or did he?

Maybe the Delegate was busy memorizing Gipson's contract......lolol.

The shooters are getting what they voted for. I can't fight the battle alone.

 

On Thursday at the Grand you were allowed to purchase five flats, after that you could only buy the amount that your vouchers would allow.

 

I got in the 5 flats line twice. Anyone could. Then what would the purpose be the next day for vouchers only. They wanted to make sure nothing was left.

 

After Thursday, they got with the ATA to be sure they had enough shells to cover the potential vouchers for the remaining events.

 

My rival Neil would remind us they can’t get anything done because they don’t know how to do anything. Now you don’t have bullets because the grand had extra ammo to make a bigger profit. Neil would also say a delegate’s duty is to make a profit for the corporate office.

 

You would think the Cardinal Center not the ATA would be responsible for making sure ammo was available.
Their shoot their responsibility.

 

I agree to point. The Cardinal Center could survive without the ATA. The CC could sell their own ammo. Ohio and PA together are 3/4 of shotgun sports.

Only one out of 8 targets are registered in Ohio.

Who needs who?

 

Shot 50.00 by time you pay tax.
Shot & wads only.
Golf cart people loading short time ago. Looked like rentals were a bit sparce.

regards……..Gerald

 

It is to bad that the Cardinal Center doesn’t have a Super Walmart nearby like the one in Sparta.They sold a lot of pallets of shells during the Grand..The horders cleaned out the place on a daily basis.At least Walmart doesn’t rip you off like the dealers do.

 

It’s going to have an adverse effect on the outcome of the shoot for sure.

Jon Reitz

 

AJs did have some Fiocchi 12ga, Win AA 20&28ga . That was in the morning. Mike

 

The clubs have a multitude of responsibilities in the process of preparing for a shoot, if ammo is not available to them how can it be their fault they do not have ammo available to the shooting public ..? I have not looked at any of the programs as of late, they used to state ammo/ food/ refreshments will be available at the club several years ago ... If the Worlds largest retailer (Wal Mart) cannot get ammo you can bet the clubs will have problems for damn sure ... The Super Wal Mart just north of me had 2 pallets of shells on their load, before they could put them on the shelf they were gone ... They have a 5/4 pack limit or total of 20 boxes, you would think they were giving them away the way the customers were acting and bitching about the limits ... People best stock up when and if they can because this is probably not going to get better anytime soon ... This store gets 4 loads per week, there are shells on them 2 sometimes 3 times a week according to the Sporting Goods Manager yet the shelves are bare and there isn't a registered shoot in the area right now ...
Today, Walmart employs nearly 1.6 million people in the U.S. at more than 5,000 stores and clubs nationwide ... That is a lot of shotgun shells to be distributed so not all stores will get enough for the demand ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

Thanks for your support ....

 

It is not the clubs place to supply shells. It is nice when they have them but if I wanted to shoot I would get my shells any where I could. Roger C.
P.S. They supply the targets you supply the shells.

 

I am wondering how do you know the ratio of 1 registered to 8 not registered.

 

Walmart in my neck of the woods hasn’t had ANY ammo of ANY kind since before Thanksgiving. The sporting goods manager doesn’t care if we ever get any ammo.

 

MOVE .... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

You aren’t wondering how I know. Could be you have club envy. I am guessing you are from a state with very few clubs. Maybe in the Dakotas or Wyoming. Doesn’t matter.

I can walk to more clubs in a morning than you can drive to in a morning. I can drive to 50 in less than two hours. And very few of them throw any registered birds. We have several local leagues here with shoots that dwarf some of the tiny “grands”.

The ratio I gave you was quoted from Greg Dawson. But that was when more Ohio and PA clubs threw registered targets.

Registered trapshooting is an after thought now in Ohio. The ATA designed it that way.

 

jd88201, It is called math. If you know the amount of targets thrown, and how many were registered, Simple math will tell you the ratio of one to the other.
Roger C.

 

Family Guy you answered the question. If only one out of 8 targets thrown in Ohio are registered why would the ATA care if the CC had shells. It’s sad to think the powers in control would do something like that, but the truth will never be told.

 

The shells at the grand did not belong to the ata,they had no control if the vendor wanted to sell out Instead of carrying inventory back to their store.

 

The ATA cut and run from Ohio, not the other way around ... The ATA is an Organization that is supposed to service all of the clubs, not only the select few even if it can't and don't draw a crowd (ex: WSRC) ... There has been a total separation between the ED, EC, and many on the BOD over the past 16 plus years because the majority of shooter will not attend what was once the Grand Daddy of them all, that being the grand American ... Pay backs are the bitch and happened because the ATA leaders didn't listen to the membership in the many polls that were taken when they made the choice to re locate to Sparta, Illinois that has since established a Pathetic attendance record ... I'm betting the Cardinal Center will make arrangements in the future, for the future that eliminates needing or expecting any assistance from the ATA or some of the vendors that might be involved ... The Cardinal Center has established numbers that a lot of company's would love to be associated with so it is just a matter of time ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

The ATA gets a cut from every box of shells sold by their chosen vendor. What makes you think they would want them to carry them back home?
It was great that there was enough shells available, they had more than was needed. they sold off the excess. Ran light with truck going home, good business decision. Roger C.

 

It was a good business decision in the short term. IMO a bad one. As I posted in the other thread, if they would have saved some of that excess ammo and brought it to the CC it would have been a PR home run.

 

Roger, I understand math, I am asking how do you come up with the total number of clays thrown in a state. I belong to a club that has never held a registered shoot as the sec and treasure for the last 31 years I know how many we throw. Most of the clubs don't register so how do you come up with an accurate number of targets thrown because we have never given our target count to any one. Thanks

 

The target companies know haw many targets are sold in each state, in any given year. Roger C.

 

JD88201,

I told you how I know what the target ratio is or was in Ohio and PA. You say you don’t understand because you live in another state. That isn’t my fault.

Greg Dawson owned Dawson Enterprises. Don’t you think he would know his customer base? Didn’t you know they were a major distributor of targets?

Let’s say club “A” needs 20,000 targets to get them thru the winter and they don’t throw registered in the winter. And let’s say they need 300,000 for the 3 summer months. Are you getting a clue yet? But they only have three shoots a year with 20 squads per event. And let’s assume they have the same shoots every year.

And let’s assume he had 150 clubs that don’t throw any registered targets.

Are you ready to tell Pat you can solve the puzzle? Or do you need another vowel?

 

That's all I was asking was just wondering where the numbers were coming from. Should be fairly accurate. We use a different distributor in our region for fun I will ask his thoughts on the ratio in our region. Thanks

 

If Gamaliel was to truck a few pallets of shells to the Cardinal center that would be close to a 1000 mile round trip.Everyone is looking at their bottom line.Fuel and a motel stay and labor would add to the cost of the shells.
Could anyone from the Cardinal center have called Gamaliel and offered to buy the surplus shells and send a truck for the shells?

 

This is what happens when you own a business and outsource a portion of it to someone else. I have ran Thorn Bottom Hunting for 26 years. I stock and sell my ammo, I don't count on another business to supply my hunters. I don't want anything popping up if I can control it myself.

Last week I told Luke, Jake, and Bubba that the time had passed for the Cardinal Center to not be selling their own ammo. First off I told them that leaving that much profit on the table is bad business, 2nd you should never outsource anything. Third I told them that this was a good reminder how little any of the shell companies thought about registered ATA shooting and the CC.

Which is fine but if I was running the CC I told them the first thing I'd do is kick White Flyer out of the building that they now occupy and give it to the OSTA HOF and Museum in Jack and Karen Fishburn's name. The HOF has ran out of space and Jack and especially Karen loved it and were very proud members of the Ohio HOF and to bad if it hurt WF feelings. After all what has any of those companies done for trap shooting, Ohio, or the SCTP that can compare with what Jack and Karen did? Ammo and gun companies are basically made up of money whores who only care about the bottom line. If it wasn't for Midway USA the SCTP would be toast if the kids counted on any gun or ammo company. Thank You Potterfields.

Next I'd make sure that Winchester and any other ammo rep that came to a future Cardinal Shoot were in a tent on the west end of the line in front of a pot hole in the mud if I had to spray it down everyday with the water wagon to make it happen.

If they don't like it to bad stay away, if you aren't selling ammo here why come in the first place. This is were the phrase "don't let the door hit you in the ass" would seem right to say too.

You can't blame someone else if you make bad business decisions just don't let it happen again but don't depend on any one again but yourselves. You never learn anything from the second kick of a mule. And show those gun reps how it feels to be out in the cold. or this case next year in the mud.

 

Now Brad, We will wait and see IF they listened to you.

And, I especially support enlarging the HOF Museum that place is great already, but could surly use more room.

 

I'm still looking for a Quality 92 hand set trap to donate to the Ohio H.O.F. .If you know of one send me a P.M. Roger C.

 

No one at the Winchester building all week, must be they don't like to answer any questions. They would just lie anyway.

 

Brad I basically agree with your post and if we could get White Flyer and Winchester moved from beside our museum it would let us have a much needed expansion and it would be a much deserved tribute to name the addition the Jack and Karen Fishburn section of our museum. Hopefully this can come to pass.

Dave Berlet