Grand American Trapshoot 2021 by Amateur Trapshooting Association ATA Success Story or Not?

Was the Grand successful? Is it still the Grand? I talked to a few vendors. At least a few vendors made lots of money. I know of one that pulled out and another that snuck in.

Your thoughts?

 

My .02

The events could move faster if they did not clear the line each time. Once everyone is on C start A again.

Trap help was limited, so most scorers loaded and scored. This slowed things up. I heard they were only paying 11/hr to the help.

We got in 8/2 and the AIM had the vendors hopping, then it all slowed down come Weds (8/11). Most of the tent vendors packed up Weds and were gone Thursday.

Buying ice was about as hard as buying ammo.

I dont know if it was just my luck or not, it seemed people were in no hurry to shoot. One squad two in front of me sat down for 15 mins after each 25, and it backed it all up. The line supervisor told them to hurry it up and they did not care. During prelim week doubles almost never started before 1730.

Im glad I came, I like shooting here. Just wish things were more efficient.

 

Depends on how people are squadded though. An early HC squad following the last squad out in singles can be a problem.

Jon Reitz

 

Missouri was my first Grand, so decided to attend the Grand this year too. My wife and I both thought Missouri was more personable of the two. Sparta felt like I was on campus of a large corporation. Yes, it is impressive, but not once did i see officials check the height of the birds, only checked the speed of the birds, even between singles and doubles setup. So next year checking out the Cardinal Center instead of going to Sparta.

 

It was a good shoot. Comments made here are mostly spot on. Help was limited, so scorers filled traps. That created a long wait between traps. BUT, probably not Sparta's fault. No one can find help these days. And YES, some of the slowness was the shooters fault. I found the birds to be really good, although I never saw the height checked either! Glad I went. A good time. Already planning for next year.
Paul

 

If you don't like the height of the target, ask them to raise or lower them for you. The traps are all marked at a certain setting and then based on the projected wind speed and direction for the day, they are all set higher or lower or on that setting. But as we all know weather conditions change, so they will adjust the height for you.

 

This is a sore spot with me. Some people prefer targets a certain way. The targets should be presented as stated in the RULE book, not whatever you feel like shooting today. Which is why they should always be staked. I did not see one stake at Sparta.

 

The only stakes at Sparta are on the practice trap that they use for a model to set the other traps. It would take forever to stake 120 traps multiple times a day and conditions change. All of a sudden the wind shifts from the southwest to the north and all of a sudden the targets go from legal to 40 feet high (or vice versa). Also the weather on bank 1 can be different than bank 20 (3 miles away).

 

The ATA has had 16 + years to revitalize the grand in Sparta, it has not happened yet so it holds true they have established a less than stellar amount of attendees ( Pathetic numbers ) ....I talked to a few friends who were camping ( not shooting ) , none of them plan on going back based on what they observed, said it was not fun ... I did not ask for details but they were not happy campers (no pun intended ) ... Wal Mart on the other hand did record numbers, Thanks for your Support ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Frostyman, When you set a stake for the 50 yard line. the top of the stake is level with the shooting pads. that is where the target would land on level ground. What is so hard about that? At 6 am. there is not much wind. Set them, then do not let anyone change them, unless they are going straight up in the air, or they are rolling on the ground. Set them as near to the book in the morning and tell the shooters they will not be reset unless they are completely out of the parameters stated in the rule book. Roger C.

 

Im my opinion the Grand went very well this year. Target setting was excelent overall and the very high scores both weeks reflected it. The few times our squad requested a target reset the line personnel were more than accommodating. In spite of being short staffed, the help that was there gave their all and did an outstanding job through some long hot days. If the Canadian and other foreign shooters were able to attend this year, numbers would no doubt have been up from 2019. Also no shortage of shells at the shell house, and those of us that were willing to wait in line the last two days were able to get a decent amount to take home with us for a relatively reasonable price. I honestly can't wait to be back in 2022!!

 

Too bad the shell companies didn't save a few of those pallets for the CC. That would have been some great PR for them. Imagine if Rem/Fed said,

You know, the classic is right around the corner. Probably would be a great idea to send some of our shells down there in this time of shortage. Just think of the good press we would get if we were the only ammo company that did that. I'll bet the shooters would remember who took care of them the next time they decided what brand to buy.

Translation? If we take care of them now they will remember and we will make more money than the other companies.

Just sayin....

 

What would stakes have to do with the height of a target?

Jon Reitz

 

If you are throwing them the proper speed, if they are to high they will be long. Lord maker is correct. the rule book was put in place to standerdize targets any club they are thrown at. If you do not understand the rule get a rule book. If you still do not understand it get help. If they are to high and soft, they will not make the proper distance. Roger C.

 

90% of the shooters today do not know what a properly set target is supposed to look like. Very sad fact but true. Roger C.

 

90% don't know what a 3 or 5 hole target is/was either....and go away thinking they are great trap shooters.

 

imagine if those shell companies had orders to fill from last year still… if they continue to make good products then people will buy them. They are a trusted brand for many of the top shooters not because of who they sell to, but to what they make. Maybe if you get on Sportsmen’s Dens story of why they didn’t have shells on the grounds of the CC but had them in their store front location.. I was told they didn’t bring any because so many people complained of when they sold limited #’s to shooters at the OH state shoot. So if you really want to play the blame game. Stop blaming Sparta, stop blaming Gamaliel and stop blaming the ATA. The Cardinal Classic didn’t have shells because the vendors who provide them didn’t bring any. Enough said
And companies are meant to make money. That’s how they stay afloat, especially in these weird times. Material costs are through the roof and they’re struggling to hire workers even after upping the payment for jobs. Take that into consideration before you stop complaining about low attendance at the Cardinal Center this year. Sheeesh

 

Jr

Where were the shooters at Sparta? Ammo wasn't the problem. Grand success is the topic. So where were the other 2500 that used to be in the big handicap event?

I read where the numbers were the lowest since the depression. Much lower than the Korean War days. Over 1700 actually participated.

Can the shoot be called a success with those numbers? There was a shoot at the CC with more participants mid summer.

 

That was just kids. LOL

 

Roger what many of these experts can't figure out is that if you set targets early in the mourning in somewhat still air with a T bar and a proper height distance stake you will have a properly set target with the correct height and distance and have much better targets than targets set with the target setter waving around a radar gun and guessing what the protractor is telling them. Been there and done that with the T bar and stake.

Dave Berlet

 

But when the wind blows the dingbats want those same targets to magically hit the stake by increasing target speed. Change the elevation-yes, distance-never.

 

Many people did not come to Sparta because it’s just that. It’s Sparta.. I know of many Oh, Pa and Northeastern shooters that hate the complex just because of the state it’s in. Some people did not come due to ammo. If they didn’t have any they didn’t want spend some extra money on buying there. Some didn’t come due to COVID, and some just didn’t want to travel very far this year and take it easy.
In regards to your bigger shoot mid summer… I believe you’re talking about the SCTP shoot, where thousands of kids will shoot a weeks worth of events ranging from skeet to doubles trap, sporting and bunker. The reason there was such a high attendance level is because it’s meant for kids. Kids have friends.. I was once on a SCTP team where we had 50+ members. It’s a team event for SCTP. So usually the whole team goes. There is no structured way to compare the SCTP nationals to the Grand American due to the different structures of the shoots them selves and the participants.

 

Look Jr, many of us back East shooters will never travel to Sparta because of a lack of nearby amenities, much longer travel distance, and no close airport. Not all of us enjoy sleeping in a motor home, cooking hot dogs over a grill and partying with the neighbors. Sparta has, and will continue to be an abject failure for those reasons listed. Maybe it's time to open your eyes just a little, see the average age of the shooters around you and you might understand why Sparta is a dog that won't hunt!

 

I agree. Sparta is a great facility buts in the wrong location. All i said was that northeast shooters don’t want to go there because they feel robbed. ST Louis airport is an hour away and within 45 min from the complex there are over a dozen hotels. Not very many restaurants until you get around 35 min away from the complex. In my defense I don’t “cook hot dogs over a grill” I like to go out to eat with friends multiple times during the Grand American shoot. Where else could you have dinner with all the Western shooters. They don’t go to Ohio..

 

How do you know how us Eastern shooters feel about Sparta when as a sub jr you might not even been born when the last Grand American was held in Ohio? Quite frankly, I don't feel robbed at all, I just fly down to FL for the Southern Grand and get overwhelmed by nearby food and hotel choices. I'm not a masochist and I don't like grilling!

 

Jr

I take it you have lived in your gun hate state your whole life. We sent a poll to the ata. It was clear. Illinois is a gun hate state and we aren’t going.

The poll didn’t ask about the Illinois/ATA corruption. Wish it had. Research 2012Pull. It is on the site.

And the design of the place sucks. Keep what you have there. Keep your corrupt admin there. Stay in Illinois.

 

News flash lol. I’m not actually a subjr…
And because I’ve been to numerous small shoots to the largest events in Ohio. Many many times. It also doesn’t take a lot to figure out Ohio shooters felt robbed the Grand got moved to IL. Look at the threads in this website and you can find that out very easily. It’s a common mindset that shooters from the Ohio to the Northeast don’t come to the Grand ever since it moved to IL. Enjoy your travels to FL where I’m sure there is plenty to do. Don’t get too overwhelmed they’re just hotels and restaurants, nothing we all haven’t seen before. Like I said nearby the complex there isn’t too many options but as you get further out there are more and more things available to do.

 

I realize IL sucks as a state and I’ve never questioned it. I sell guns in the suburbs of Chicago. So if someone should know about the state being terrible it would be me. The complex is a great place to shoot, where else are you going to have that many traps, that many camping spots and vendor buildings to host such a large event. I travel throughout the entire country going to different shooting events and when I say that the World shooting complex is the most impressive, I’m not the only one saying that. I plan on moving somewhere in a more free state anyway, but you not going to the Grand is your choice and if you want to miss out on such a fun event, then that’s your loss.

 

Jr

You need to re-read what I wrote. Read this slower.

Ohio has more Ohio shooters attend the CC (870 state shoot) than Sparta has Illinois shooters at (670).
I will re-phrase is another way. Fewer Illinois shooters go to Sparta than Ohio shooters that go to the CC.

I assume Illinois shooters know what Sparta is like.

You tell me why the Illini don’t support Sparta.

The CC had 4,000 at the SCTP shoot.

It is possible the CC will have to expand west.

 

Many shooters did not go to Sparta , because they told the ATA not to move there. They did it anyway. Sparta is a nice facility but it is not what the shooters wanted. The EC and B.O.D. made the move now the shooters are not happy with it. Get over it Sparta will never replace Vandalia. It lacks the closeness that the shooters wanted, I'm not talking about crowded, I'm referring to the feeling one gets when in the company of close friends. The ATA lost that in the unwanted move
Roger C.

 

wrong thread lol!
Maybe it’s because IL doesn’t have as many trapshooters than Ohio does. Wonder if that makes sense to you. Maybe read this slower. Illinois does not have as many trapshooters as the bigger state Ohio does. IL state shoot had less than 400 shooters in the state shoot (not at Sparta) while Ohio had 893
Try that out and see what you think. There are also not as many dedicated shooters that travel around to shoot to shoot from IL than Oh. But you try and figure it out ​

 

Wow….

Sparta can’t even entice Illinois shooters. But Illinois isn’t bigger. We moved a sport’s flagship shoot to a place the locals wouldn’t even support it.

Brilliant idea right! Spend millions of dollars on a monstrosity that is too spread out in a gun hating state.

Actually it is fine with me. As long as your 2012Pull thugs stay there I won’t give a rats ass. Keep Lynn there forever. Keep putting money into it. Final tally for the GAH actual shooters a little more than 1780. But the good thing…..Gipsons took over the Dawson building. Keep up the good work.

 

subjr1, Tell me why a good business owner or manager would move his business away from his largest group of customers? That is what the EC did. When they knew a large majority the shooters said DO NOT MOVE THERE. Roger C.

 

The whole move was like Dumb and Dumber. You pick which is which

ILLnews saw all the people at Vandalia and thought, WOW, look at all the money we will make when they show up in our state. Lets build them a facility that is even bigger. Those ata people said if it is bigger even more of them will show up. Don't worry about losing OH and PA shooters, the rest of the country will make up for it they said. They thought the place was going to be a gold mine.

The ata ignores the poll they sent out and moves there anyway because ILLnews is going to "give" them this place. They are told by one of their own that it won't matter if the OH and PA shooters don't show up, the rest of the country will cover. The numbers will be the same or better.

Turns out that gold mine is a money pit for ILLnews

Turns out the ata should have listened to the DUES PAYING MEMBERS.

As I said, you pick