View Hall of Fame Lease with IDNR Sparta

This is the HOF's lease with Illinois DNR for the hall of fame building. It's very interesting for those who care about such things. I got this today and also a letter from the hof soliciting donations. I might post that letter sometime soon. BD

 

What am I missing?

23. D
Both DNR and lessee shall have the right to terminate this agreement without cause and at either party's sole discretion prior to the expiration date by giving (180) days advance notice of termination to the other party.

And Illinois gets a $2.1 million dollar building?

 

Read 28 .... "cease immediately and without penalty or liability for damages" ....

 

Wow! You could not make this stuff up.

 

Brad I wonder what the Martins feelings are? On their investment $. Were they even involved or had a say?

GB DLS

 

Page 10, # 26 ~ First Paragraph

Good God, According to this "lease", WE the ATA members, just turned over $250,000.00 to the State of Illinois.

Building cannot be removed ?!?!?

I read it as the State owns the building, not the THOF.

The THOF won't have to sell the building to the state, the State already owns it as part of the property ?!!!??????!!!??????

Can anyone see this in a different light ?

What BOD would ever sign into this agreement, especially knowing the situation out there ?

Did anyone from the ATA read and question this before making this sizable donation ?

 

IF I am reading this part of the lease wrongly, I will stand corrected.

Anyone ?

 

No!
Over $2 million for the building. And the damn thing don't have wheels. lol
Someone earlier posted that Bradford was the fellow in charge of deciding which venue on the table was best suited for the ATA.

 

Well Mr. Bradford is a past President, along with Jeff Wagner who is now on the Board of Trustees of the THOF.

They should know what's best when it comes to spending the ATA donation . Never mind the Martins donation, I am sure they were aware of this agreement before turning that sum over.

Why should we question their business sense ?

My friend Lynn Parsons was a Trustee before he passed. He was instrumental in setting up the meeting with Ad Kaufman, Mr. Fishburn and the THOF trustees several years ago.

He must be rolling over in his grave to see this happening, rest his soul.

 

That building may have cost over 2 million to build .... but, the 'actual cash value' in that location can not be anything close to that.

I can't see anyone else wanting to purchase it ... and the 'rent value' for something like a bait shop for people fishing in the muddy pond on the property, would put it in the sub-100k actual cash value range.

The people who built it hit the lottery ... the state just gets an over-priced shed.

 

You cannot sell the property it sits on.
You cannot sublease.

This lease tells the story of the ATA and the leadership it has had.

 

Is this a joke? No one would enter into an agreement like this.

 

Which clown(s) made these decisions?

A.




B.



C.

 

Clown A lol

 

Says they will only have 45 days to remove everything from the HOF if the lease ends early. After that the state owns what is inside. Thinking they may want to have a u-store it shed waiting.

 

So we threw away $250,00.00 and we have no added money at what was supposed to be our big shoot.

The cronies at the top gave money to cronies at the top. Funny don't you think.

 

Problem is that we needed to be more careful when these men got elected ,not just vote this one in and that one out. pay attention we are all guilty this sh-t happened on our watch. There was very little we could do then and almost nothing we can do now.

 

2triggers...The items are now in storage...

I would hope that THOF BOT would hold off transferring the items into the new building until all of this crap shakes out. Bad enough that they loose the new building, let alone all the cost of moving items out of storage and then back into storage...

Holding off any movement would seem to be in the best interest of the THOF at the moment to me anyway.

2 cents worth from a machine shop grease monkey, not a businessman, just a common sense man who still is hoping somehow this all works out OK.

There is a lot at stake here that cannot be taken lightly.

 

Sounds logical. But really. The artifacts/relics, and everything associated with the place should be put inside asap. Then it should be boarded up with a sign put outside letting the public know how the ATA got to this point.

A.

 

I would say clown A, B and C. ... Type " (A) shocked one , Type (B) stupid fat one who just wants to be a part of anything good or bad, The WHO Me type ... Type (C) the ones who express surprise, like what the hell happened .? All of the above Clowns lack common sense, logic, and reasoning ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Please remember, the A.T.A is a separate entity with it's own Officers and Board of Directors. The A.T.A. made the decision to purchase and have ownership of their property in downtown Sparta.

The Trapshooting Hall of Fame has a Board of Trustees, some of whom are past A.T.A. presidents and they make decisions for the Hall of Fame independently from the A.T.A. Although they do enjoy a close relationship and often keep one another informed of decisions that may impact the other.

The A.T.A. name is often used in conjunction with discussions about the Trapshooting Hall of Fame, Inc., even referred to as the A.T.A. Hall of Fame. The Trapshooting Hall of Fame, Inc. is an entity within itself and the A.T.A. does not make decisions for this organization.

I just wanted to clear up any misconceptions or assumptions as to who has authority for making decisions regarding the THOF.

 

I seriously doubt if someone from the EC of the ATA made a suggestion to someone from the HOF, it would be ignored ... I think most people understand they are not one of the same but cannot help but feel they are closer than just across the street from each other ... ATA Hall of Fame is deceptive, should be Trapshooting Hall of Fame ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Money talks bullshit walks.

I read where the ATA just gave the HOF $250K? The HOF has ex ata and maybe future ata presidents and such. I fail to see the line.

 

From a legally incorporated standpoint as well as technically, they are stand-alone organizations. At its inception the Trapshooting Hall of Fame was organized by the A.T.A. and has had much financial support from them over the years. For many years, the ex-officio ATA President became a member of the THOF Trustees. I don't know who the first non-ATA officer was to be named a Trustee but Minnesota Delegate Neil Winston received an appointment and was the first (I believe) to chair the Trusees without first being ATA President. His presidency came years later.

Some time ago while at tournaments, I asked shooters if they could name one of the THOF Trustees. Very few could and that was unfortunate.

Both organizations have had a good relationship and the Hall of Fame has benefited most from it. That relationship should continue in my opinion. However, I believe it is more important to have Trustees who have the deepest appreciation for our history and its memorabilia, rather than a policy of rubber-stamping every ATA President as a Trustee. The organization deserves those with proven track-records of having the highest pride for our past.

So, I can understand the failure "to see the line" or difference and at times there may not be much difference at all. But, they are two diverse associations with separate leaders.

Regarding the $250,000 donation from the ATA. I've been assured that the Board of Directors voted in favor of the donation. However, the Delegate I spoke with said he did not recall hearing that the museum would be owned by the State of Illinois and he assumed the THOF would be be the owner. I didn't ask him if it would have caused him to vote differently.

I do see your point though dadgotkids.

 

I have had the pleasure of calling these two guys to my left (right of me in the picture) "Friends".

The fellow in the middle was Lynn "Doc" Parsons who was on the THOF Board of Trustees and fought like mad to have the Museum on DEEDED land. The fellow on the right side of the picture is "History Buff", the fellow who has mentored me in the world of Trapshooting memorabelia collecting.

Our friend Doc had some visions for the Museum, but unfortunatly he passed away before he could fight his last fight. I wish he had been on the BOT when they came up with this Lease..He would have fought this tooth and nail, you can bet on it !!! We lost a good one on that Board, who fought til the end for what he believed was right for that museum. Something he loved.

 

The more I think about this situation, the more I question it.

The ATA EC had the forsight to have their office building in the City of Sparta, on their own land. Why would they not think about this, and offer the suggestion to the THOF Board of Trustees also ? Water over the dam now, but let it be a lesson learned by the rest of us.

I had been a big supporter of the THOF. Sad to say, any offerings I may have are going in a different direction now.

 

Remember the Board is made up of ATA delegates YOU elected from each State and Province. It is the Board that makes all the decisions of monies spent, over 50,000.00, not the EC.

Remember this next time you elect a delegate based on his shooting skill or his being your friend or most popular guy at the local club, instead of his management or business skills.

Their terrible decision making reflects the vote you cast for them.

 

AZCOTRAP,

So correctly put.

I wonder if any of them got to read the lease agreement, or would take the time ?

I just have a strange feeling that it was never presented to them. I could be wrong, and at that time in question I was in the process of moving out of state and wasn't paying much attention to what was happening at that time. That being said, if i had known before hand, I would have asked my Delegate at the time to question this fact.

 

$254,900 to be exact, from the ATA minutes

Gary Bryant Dr.longshot

 

If the HOF is it's own entity, why wasn't Mr. Fishburns offer not accepted by the HOF BOT? Inquiring minds want to know.

GB DLS

 

Evertbody is saying ATA donated $250,000 to the THOF, in reality it was $254,900, where is that extra $4900
Inquiring minds want to know?


Gary Bryant Dr.longshot

 

180 days is 6 months notice not 90 days MMMmmmmm.

GB DLS

 

I do not think the IDNR is giving 6 months/180 days notice to shut down Sept. 1st, am I correct.

GB DLS

 

Well sure they are. If they are saying in June, they are closing 9/1/15 and the ATA is not scheduled for another shoot until August 2016 that is almost twice the notice time. the State is providing more notice than the time named in the lease and is more beneficial to the ATA than if the State gave notice in Feburary 2016.

 

That my dear Doc, is still the 2.2 million dollar question ???

If memory serves me correctly, Mr. Fishburn presented the following offer to the Trapshooting Hall of Fame Board:

Offer of 5 acres of DEEDED land on the corner of 2 major highways at the entrance to Cardinal Center, 100 thousand startup money, and Mr. Fishburn's construction company to assist in construction.

Wasn't a good offer to own their place free and clear I guess.

The thing that got me was we all want to present our sport to the general public. Here was a chance to do just that. Not only would shooters be able to enjoy the place Butttt ~~~~~

Any families heading into the camping area of CC during the off shooting times could walk over and visit the museum. Can you picture Mom and Dad with youngsters, visiting this amazing history ? Now, as I see it, the only people who will visit the museum will be wives of shooters looking for something to do during the Grand. I doubt that too many hot and cranky shooters will want to go over to visit after a day of shooting...They are going to either hit the road for their motels or campers where they can have a cool beverage. AND once they see it, will they want to go year after year to visit ?

Just my 2 cents for what it's worth now.

 

Sounds like a good idea today......

 

Has anyone ever thought of having an audit of the books of the hall of shame. Maybe we could get some answers as to why it cost so much and where all of the money went. Something is starting to SMELL very bad about this deal along with some of the others our leaders have been involved with. When people in charge are not up front with their actions it makes them suspect does it not? Roger Coveleskie

 

Seriously, did that building really cost 2 million dollars? I'm having trouble believing that building would cost half that amount. Do I have wrong information? What am I missing in this scenario? The HOF spent 2 million for that building on State of Illinois land? Obviously I must have heard wrong!

 

In the scenario that you lay out, the families at the CC would visit the museum during off shooting times, but at the WSRC they wouldn't? Why would the reasons to visit the museum differ between the CC and the WSRC? The only real difference between the numbers of potential visitors between the two sites is, there are more than twice as many shooters at the Grand than there were at the CC. There were 1320 participants in the AIM singles championships, many of whom were accompanied by their parents and grandparents.

In the worst case scenario, if the WSRC closes, along with the HOF, the artifacts, as they have in the past, can always be put in storage until another location can be found.

So, if exposing trapshooters to trapshooting memorabilia is what the HOF was after, I would think that its' decision to locate at the WSRC was the correct one.

 

Jo2

I guess you could be correct. What's a couple hundred thousand for packing and storage over the years, along with a new building here and there for millions ?

I guess they have it.

And, if the THOF only wants to expose trapshooters to the memorabilia, they have obtained their objective. ONLY trapshooters.

I do hope the place stays open, especially after all that money has been put into the new State owned building by the donors.

 

Bf, I would suggest that you are high in your cost estimates for packing and storage of the trapshooting artifacts that were stored in the HOF Museum, at lest I hope you are.

The decision to build the new HOF was made, the building has been built, the display cases are being constructed currently, so at this stage of the game, regardless of how much second guessing that goes on here or elsewhere, the HOF trustees are probably best to move in and make the best of it. Your point of exposing trapshooters only to the memorabilia is well taken, but unless an individual has an interest in, or a connection to trapshooting, it is unlikely that they will travel across the street to visit a museum devoted to trapshooting memorabilia.

I, like you, hope that the place stays open, regardless of who contributed money to the HOF building, or who own the land that it is located on.

 

If ( hope it don't happen) but if the WSRC gets shuttered what good is having a HOF building on the grounds ..? This appears to be poor planning under the circumstances ... People do not travel ( proved by attendance) to Sparta to shoot the grand, can't see them traveling there to visit the Hall of Fame ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

WPT, you are correct, if it gets shuttered, no good will come of the HOF building located on the WSRC grounds, but on the other hand, it is there, so we have to make the best of it. Hindsight is always 20/20, and knowing then, and knowing what may (and I repeat, MAY) happen now or in the near future, possibly things would have been done differently.

You are also correct, to an extent, that people do not travel to Sparta to shoot the Grand like they used to when it was in Vandalia, but roughly 3 times (based on 2000 shooters in the Clay Target Championship plus 1300 shooters in the AIM Singles Championships) the people travel to shoot in Sparta, than anywhere else on the planet. So, without benefit of hindsight, the current location is still the best location.

 

Take a look at attendance, and amount of money it has cost the State of Illinois to maintain and operate the WSRC for the past 11 years and tell me about how many people you will be expecting for the Grand Opening ... If it was such an attraction they would not be considering shuttering the place ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

30,000 would have driven by it every day at the CC. There are 5 major shoots at the CC every year. That is just trapshooting. No logical person can justify the move. It is a decision that deserves to be shuttered in the HOF with it's leaders. Appropriately it is in a gun hate state. Very fitting.

The place and it's leaders deserve all the ridicule and more they will get. It stands as a monument those that have lead the sport since at least '96.

Fortunately the shooters in my state and the states surrounding us do not need the HOF to enjoy the sport. I can drive to 30 shoots in less than a few hours this weekend not all registered of course.

Mark it said here. Soon they will start inducting themselves.

 

Two questions WPT, will it cost the state of Illinois any more with the HOF museum at the WSRC than without it there? And secondly, what shooting venue has more participants than the Grand and AIM championships that are currently held at the WRSC?

An FYI for you as well, when I attended the Grand in Vandalia on several occasions, there was never a line up to see the shooting memorabilia in the museum with 4000+ shooters in attendance, so even if there isn't a line up for the grand opening, I am sure that it won't be location related.

 

Fg, unfortunately you hit the nail on the head. There are 30,000 people driving by the CC every day, and likely, even if the HOF museum was located there, they would still drive by unless they were somehow connected to the game of trapshooting.

Regardless of the number of major shoots that the CC hosts, there will be an overlap of attendees, and after they have been through the museum once, they are less likely to go through it again, and even less likely to go through it a third time. Unfortunately, that is the reality. It was situated at the same site as the Grand was held when it was in Vandalia, so it seems to make sense that it is situated in the same location that the Grand is held currently.

 

Being that there are 40 clubs within a few hours of the CC there is a very good chance many would be associated with trapshooting. Not so in Illinois.

The HOF building in Illinois is located in and owned by the gun hate state. The whole scheme pushed by the the gun hate czar and felon Blagojevich. The whole gammit smells of corruption.

The other big difference......it is now at the mercy of the gun hate state.

 

This may be a good time to bump this as we continue to have new members. Thanks again to Brad for posting this. Amazing what the pressures of the freedom of information bring!

 

There is nothing that can be said to convince some people (Members, EC, and BOD) that a major mistake was made, build it and they will come echoed from the hills and valleys, they obviously forgot to tell everyone where it was located so nobody showed up ... The HOF being located in Sparta is an even bigger mistake because its on property that is not owned and will never been seen by the majority of the members (ATA) who might just be interested in seeing and visiting such an attraction if it were located in a place like the Cardinal Center where they have multiple larger shoots more than on an annual basis ... The offer made by the folks at Cardinal Center to the officials of the ATA are no secret and with no doubt was the best deal going for ALL of the members, the Association, but not only those that might or might not attend the grand in Sparta, Ill ... Rose colored glasses and a glass of wine only last so long and then its back to reality ... The ATA was not treated unjustly by any means when it came time to leave Vandalia, so if they harbor ill feeling for any reason its not logical, reasonable, realistic, or justified on their part ... They knew far in advance that the day would (Some say as far back as 1973) come someday, the problem is they did not prepare for it far enough in advance so they would not have to jump at an offer that was not then and will never be in the best interest of the membership or the Association (Call it desperation) ... The ATA was forewarned well in advance in many POLLS that many members and vendors would not come to Sparta so if they expected that to change without a damn good reason they were sadly mistaken, but again unprepared ... The ATA obviously found out they are not the only game in town as trapshooting continued to flourish in Ohio long after they were gone ... It will be interesting to see where they go from being really" homeless" after they see and realize what little value they bring to any venue, even one that was built to their specifications with funding from the State of Illinois ... Let it die a peaceful death and move on .. WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Have any of you read the artical in the new Trap & Field that the Canadian delegate wrote? He explained in detail why Sparta is not a good draw for northern shooters. Read and then comment. Roger C.

 

Roger, I don't get Trap and Field. Could you give us a brief description?

 

He said the location is not the best. I suggest getting a copy it will be very informative. Just straight opinions. I'll see if I can find a way to post the artical. Roger C.

 

The ATA should post that article on their web site (www.shootatat.com) for all to see being as the man is an elected Official that represents the people with the ATA, but I seriously doubt anyone (ATA) wants people to see it ... The ATA is in a death spiral and the Canadian probably didn't get his Kool Aid from them up in the North country ... I quit subscribing to Trap and Field when the ATA took it over, cancelled the (ATA) credit card also, they do not take them but support getting a kick backs from them ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Bill,
They do take credit cards at Sparta. Only not for options. You can put targets and daily fees on your card . If they put options on the card they would have to pay the card Co. a fee for doing so. and that would be a lot of money. Check you e-mails. Roger C.

 

Thank you Roger, I stand corrected but the card is gone anyway ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

November is approaching quickly. This WAS the target date for Punkin Flock and all of the other wonderful items that are in storage to be transported to Sparta.

Any bets on this happening, IF at all ~~~ EVER ?????

I am not trying to be negative because I love the great items they had on display. I am just questioning the IF here. Without some sort of protective service out in that desolate area, I would be concerned putting these items out there...

ESPECIALLY all the guns that could be stolen from the place...Oh yes, I forgot it's in Illinois where there is no gun problem because of their stringent laws. That makes them safe I guess.

Dave

 

The artifacts that would be (should be) in the Hall of Fame are priceless to many people, some more so than others and should be guarded and protected at all cost ... The many years it took to get it established is an indication of the value of those artifacts and all of those who have been inducted into that HOF are noteworthy and honorable people ... Its a shame that it sits and does not get displayed for anyone interested in seeing and or visiting even if its a one time thing ... The people in the HOF are what the ATA was made of, not what it appears to be and the direction it is headed in which is not really all that "Fantastic" until the juice kicks in ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

I think all can agree the circumstance surrounding the HOF building are terrible.How could grown men sign such a lease? Who is the HOF's lawyer? Do they even have one? If they do and he must have not given them good advise or they did not listen.
The other question is, who overseen the costs of this operation? Did they have competing quotes on the building? How much juice was involved in the process of letting out the contracts?
I like the Sparta complex, but I would not want to have my name involved with the questionable aspects of the place. Some of the decisions that were made are proving to be disasterous to the future of the ATA, and this is a damn shame.
If these mistakes were done in good faith that is one thing, but if the were done for any other reason, then they must look in the mirror , every time the shave and see a disgusting image of what honest men despise. Roger C.

 

Roger,

It is my understanding that the lease was reviewed by a knowledgeable and very competent person who was not in favor of the lease requirements. The Trustees confirmed their decision for placing the museum with the Grand American Handicap several times by vote, and was not about to accept any other location. I'm sure they feel the lease they agreed to grants full protection to the Trapshooting hall of Fame, Inc. but some of us remain fearful that our artifacts may not have received the level of security they so rightfully deserve.

As I understand, the lease agreement was going forward no matter what came up and while the legal advice offered monumental protections for the THOF organization, a rush to commence construction seems to have dismissed some very important factors necessary to totally protect our Hall of Fame.

In my view the finger pointing cannot be in the direction of the legal advice.

 

Doesn't the ATA own Trap and field? If they didn't want anyone to see the article they simply wouldn't have printed it.

 

Yes they do, but to not print it would make them look even worse than if they did ... The membership should be made aware of issues such as this and if they had not printed it sooner or later it would of come out any way ... It was said and got the point across that cannot be denied, not sure they can eliminate printing it and what the ramifications could be, if any at all ... Just not look good when it did come out eventually any way ... WPT ... (YAC) ... (DSP) ...

 

History Buff, Do you know whose signature is on the HOF arrangement? The majority of the HOF board must have agreed on the acceptance of the terms would they not? I think it is time to institute a common sense test for all future directors of the ATA and the HOF. Oh S$$t it's to late for the HOF. Roger C.

 

Roger,

In reviewing the HOF lease agreement at the top of this post I see that the document has received some redaction, especially in reference to the signatures.

As you can see, the representative for the HOF was referred to as Chairman of Trustees. This would be Jim Bradford Jr. I believe Marc Miller was the Director of the IDNR (2009-2015) so it would have presumably been his signature of approval as their representative.

And you will notice Governor Pat Quinn's final approval at the bottom.

HB

 

HistoryBuff, I'm not a csi but I can name the signer for the HOF and so can you. One clue Chairman of Board of Trustees and it sure as hell looks like the first name starts with a J. Brad

 

Lease agreement Hell !

It's what I would call a GIFT agreement

 

Is "trapwife" someone able to hold sway over the HOF Trustees and the ATA EC? I would admit that while she's a wonderful person there is no reason to accept her opinion over any other dues paying ATA member. I would hope she's not that shortsighted to believe the current HOF situation is a desirable situation for the HOF and ATA.

 

Seitz, I believe trap wife was not involved in anything but liking the location over the C.C. The lease wording was not in her jurisdiction. I'm sure she has much of Leo's items listed to go into the hall of fame. Roger C.

 

User 1, I don't think anyone has any sway of any kind over Jim Bradford. As long as I've known him he's done pretty much damn near what he wants to. I know by talking with Leo when he was alive that he was worried and thought there should be a main HOF at a stable location and a smaller one at the site of the grand wherever it was held. No one on this or the other site should be naive enough to think that Leo couldn't see what was happening. He told me several times that last year before he died that he was just riding out the string. He missed the big money shoots as much as me, but he loved trap shooting more than I did and couldn't quit. I think trap shooting killed him in the end because he wouldn't slow down and take a summer off.

I asked Leo to take it easy that last year because I didn't want to own a dog named Leo. I name my Brittany's after my dead friends. Unfortunately I have a 2 year old Brit named Leo. I also have a George (Dave George) a Frank (Frank Little) an Oliver (Oliver Short) had a Bart (Bart Spicer) and several others. Some are named after Trap shooters and others just friends.


I doubt there is anyone shooting today that knew Leo Harrison better than I did. It's just too bad that he never felt comfortable saying in public what he really thought. If you really wanted to know what Leo thought give him a couple rum and cokes or set with him for about 5 days in a row at a heart's game, That's, That's where the Donald Trump in Leo would come out.

Brad Dysinger

 

Brad, I have no doubt you knew Leo best on a personal level. Talking about him in past tense brings emotion to the conversation. And I don't think Leo would have wanted the over-priced pole barn to be built there. But that was Leo, not his widow.

Sometimes to make sense out of nonsense, you have to look where you do not want to see.

 

I had the opportunity to talk with Leo at the Grand one year when one of my shooting buddies happened to be in the same Champion of Champions Event squad. As stated above, Leo thought it made all the sense in the world to accept Mr. Fishburn's offer and later put a museum in Sparta. At that time none of us ever imagined that the THOf would not own its own building. I too favored this plan and suggested it to the THOF Trustees.

Trapwife has always been willing to assist the THOF whenever they needed help, sometimes taking on more than she was really asked to do. I believe her heart was always in the right place.

However, I can assure you that she holds no "sway over the Trustees or ATA EC." For that matter neither do I, nor did Leo, or anyone else I know. The Trustees truly believe they are doing the right thing for the organization. Both Dick Baldwin and myself were two outspoken protectors of the collection of artifacts who just could not share their vision.

 

It is very evident that Jim Bradford signed the lease agreement. It would be nice if he would tell the shooters what he read in the document. I for one would like to know how anyone could agree to such terms. Would he have made this same decision if he were personally supplying the money to build it? I hope he is not allowed to manage the check book at home. Roger C.

 

History Buff, We are still trying to run down the previous owners of that property. It seems a little over priced for the Sparta area. Roger C.

 

Questions are still being asked so here is a bump.

 

Gee,

I had a few duplicate vintage Clay targets in my collection.

A year ago they would have gone to the THOF.

This year these items were sent to CC.

Now, anything I have that I can donate, be it monetary or items, will be sent to the OHIO STATE Hall of Fame.

I can be rest assured that they will have a place for all to see and enjoy.

Thank You Jack Fishburn, Brad, Dave Berlet, and Betty Peterson for that wonderful place.

 

As the months have rolled by ticker's post is most perfect. You could never make this up. But I don't hear HOF members raising hell. Donor's don't care.

Stranger than the story of how this happened is the apathy that followed. Wackadoodles.

 

Bradford's folly-----------
Bradford's name is on a lot of stuff. Heard he got to vote himself into the HOF. Time for a re-vote?

 

That's not quite true either. I was at the meeting for the move and talked with a rep, and asked him why he voted for Sparta when his constituents wanted to go to Indiana and he told me that he wanted to go to Sparta and the members choice did not matter.

 

The Delegates that vote as they are told to or their own mind is the problem, if elected as a Delegate you are the mouth piece of the members who elected you and its your duty to vote accordingly or you should not be a delegate ... The ATA (EC, ED, and BOD) is supposed to represent the members not the other way around , that is part of the problem that exists today ... If anyone who is on the BOD can be told how to vote regardless of what the people they represent want, they should not be representing the people who got them elected ... If what the people want is the wrong choice its up to the delegate to explain that and why before they take it upon them self to vote any other way ... There is a lot of common sense , reason, and logic out there so not all of the people who are not elected into a position can be wrong all the time ... The EC , and ED, have their agenda and it appears its not in the best interest of the "members" so for the BOD to support them that agenda without question is wrong ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

The ONLY members of the HOF that have a voice are the Board of Trustees. They supposedly vote on, and approve ALL that happens within.

And Donors don't care ?

Read my post above about my donations.

 

I've heard from two different shooters from the AZ area in the last month that the Martin money hasn't found it's way into the hof's coffers as of yet. It was listed on the HOF page as pledged or something to that effect the last time I looked. HistoryBuff is there any way to find out if the money has been given to the hof or is promised? Both these shooters were pretty adamant that it hasn't been given yet. But even I am skeptical about that. Even though the HOF directors lack good sense I'd surely think they'd have the money before signing a loan paper. But then again why would you give the building away to the state even before it was paid for?

Also "Brad's friend I hope" thanks for the gifts to the OSTA museum. I know how much all the shooters of Ohio and the other states' shooters that visit the CC enjoy having a place for or sports history. And I for one haven't given up on getting the HOF's stuff out of storage after Sparta is flushed down the toilet of history. I wonder just what thoughts are going through the heads of the HOF trustees. Do you think they are a little concerned at all? Wouldn't you think they'd be pretty embarrassed if Sparta folds and they oversaw the destruction of the HOF? How'd they show their faces at a trap shoot again? Who could they blame but themselves? I don't think blaming it on Ohio would work. Do you? Well one thing is for sure we're going to know a lot more in a couple of months. Brad

 

Not that it answers your question, but this is from the THOF website.

 

You can tell your friends in Arizona to get better sources. Bill was asked that question directly and he said he fulfilled his obligation to the ATA in full. Anyone who says different should probably man up, step up and ask him directly for the correct answer before spreading bullshit.

 

I believe the Martins have the option to back out/or should have that option due to the present circumstances, and the membership would not have Ill feelings for them.

Gary Bryant..........................Dr.longshot

 

Just had another thought. There's a great shooter from Arizona named Williams that's a Trustee to the Hall of Fame. He's always at the Tucson shoots and always parks next to Bill Martin. So if one doesn't have the nerve to ask Bill directly you could ask Gerry. I'm sure you'll get an honest answer and it will be that Bill has indeed paid his pledge. I would venture the Arizona info came out of the Ben Avery club. Bet I'm right

 

I cannot imagine Bill and or his wife not honoring a pledge , they are not that kind of people ... Integrity and honor personified would come to mind ... Gerry Williams is also a man who can and should be trusted without reservation ... Not sure where (who) the information came from but I seriously doubt if being factual having personally met these men ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

I for one would believe that the Martins would have or if not will honor their pledge to the HOF. That being said I would not be against the Martins if for some valid reason ( not knowing that the new HOF building would be owned by the State of Illinois) would withhold their pledged funds from the HOF and make some of the HOF members account for the misinformation that appears to shroud the dealing with the new HOF building.

 

It's been so long since I shot in Arizona that I don't know if these guys are from Phoenix or Tucson. I thought that the HOF would have gotten the Martin's money but you'd think they'd upgrade the web page from committed (pledged) to given and received. Usually when someone gives that sizable donation to an organization you see them presenting a very big check for the camera's and newspapers for the good pr.

I talk with Bill Hunter ever so often and I can tell you Bill is not a bit happy with the HOF building situation. Bill has given millions to trapshooting hof over many decades and I get the impression he'll not be giving any more. He had no idea the HOF building would be given to the state of Illinois. I also get the impression that the HOF donation well may be close to dry. Brad

 

Such a shame, a Damned Shame.

I cannot tell you the enjoyment we had visiting our old friends at the Vandalia facility before it closed..

Our friend Lynn (Doc) Parsons is gone, and along with his passing we could possibly be loosing a part of history that was so close to his heart.

A Shame, a Damned shame

On the left is Tami Daniel, the gal who is the "glue" that holds the THOF together, Lynn Parsons, and my wife standing in front of the old fireplace.



Such wonderful memories of the past.

 

Up for those asking.

 

I just don't understand why the old fireplace was not saved.

Dave Berlet

 

The artifacts are now at the new place of storage at the Home Grounds in Sparta.

Great they have a place to now call their own !!!

 

Great that the ATA Hall of Fame artifacts are now on display, the sad thing is hardly anyone will visit or see them. What a shame.

 

Another fantastic direction for our leaders? God what would we do without their fantastic leadership? Roger C.

 

There were not many visitors to the HOF basically because no one knew that it even existed. A billboard each way from Vandalia on interstate 75 and 70 would have brought in some visitors, but I believe that there were some in the ATA that actually wanted to see the museum starve so there would be very little opposition to moving it to a place where nobody will visit it except during a shooting event there.It really is a shame and a sad situation that our HOF has been put in.

This is just my opinion. Let everyone know how you feel about what is going on with our HOF. Thank you.

Dave Berlet


From the another thread "Will the HOF have to pay rent". Pay attention to the first sentence.

 

$2,100,000.00 +. and they have to pay taxes on a building they do not own. One of the trustees voted himself into the HOF. Donate jack and any jack gets in. damn joke!

 

Are we sure all the Articles are in the HOF Museum?

Yours in Sport
Gary Bryant...................................Dr.longshot

 

Bradford picture had to make it. He voted himself in. I bet he hangs it on the wall.

 

I am with you on your thinking.

 

Donate to the Ohio State hall of fame. It is located at the Cardinal Center. Very nice place. Roger C.