I admit to not being a marketing expert, but as a life member of the ATA, I have been around the game for some time. So my question is, how does a border collie on the front of the Grand program promote trapshooting or trapshooters? Is there a sheep herding contest during down times, or something? The ATA continues to amaze.
The Collie is rounding up the trap shooters to be sheared. The trap shooters of today are more like lemmings they do as they are told. Roger C.
Probably the dog to keep people from crossing the border UNLESS they are Mexican. Our northern friends are kept out once again.
What the hell does having a dog on the cover have to do with your statement. If ya don't like it don't go dumbass statement
The President has input on the covers. Shaw obviously has an interest in Collies. Stop being grouches! I hear one president was a target claimer. They couldn't figure out how to get that on the cover.
Lots of angst here I guess. My only point was that the cover of the grand program is a good opportunity to promote the game graphically with images of shooters or guns, or broken targets, etc. It would be like a Kentucky Derby program having a picture of a trapshooter on it. Missed opportunity is all.
+1 clayman. its just a part of the overall dumbing down of america and the education system. case in point, when was the last time you saw a rifle on the cover of american rifleman?
Friend asked me if Paul Shaw still gets the presidential gun and 20K check for expenses being as he was hold up in Canada for his term as president of the ATA, I told him I didn't know but that is a good question ... Does anybody know for sure ..? WPT ... (YAC) ....
I believe that what you are referring to is a picture of what will be the presidential pin for the Grand this year. I know that Paul and his wife are very fond of their dogs So in my opinion a Maple leaf and a picture of who is probably his best friend is surely not out of place on his presidents pin. I also appreciate the picture of Elaina on the cover. Regardless it is his choice and do you really need to comment negatively about this as he probably won't even be able to cross the border to attend the Grand in his presidential year. Dave Berlet
in light of the reduction in shooting sports in general across america....if i was in a position of leadership, id be doing everything possible to cast the spotlight on shotgunning itself. just my american right to opinion. hope it hits the target.
The ATA got away from any kind of consistency many years ago, they claim to promote trap shooting and essentially they are record keepers more so than promoters ... The real promoters of the Sport are the members and the little grass roots clubs all across the United States and beyond that host the shoots and collect the fees associated with registering targets ... The ED, EC, and many of the BOD would love people to think and give them credit for promotion when in reality there is very little promotion from the core of the organization ... Except for the name one would never know it is a shooting organization based on the covers of programs for many years, so the story goes ... Trap shooting or breaking clay targets, guns, ammo should be featured on the programing covers, who gives a shit if the president likes dogs, good thing he don't like strippers or hookers if that is the way it goes (example) ... Sit in Canada and get a check for 20K and a free gun, typical of the new and improved ATA ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
Maybe it's time for a new trapshooting association? Isn't that how PITA came about? Shooters on the west coast felt the ATA wasn't helping to promote the sport there?
Well said, WPT. At least part of the money we all give the ATA should be used to promote the sport at every possible opportunity, including on the program cover of the premier shoot, which is distributed to thousands of people, at great cost to shooters. It would seem that is just common sense and good business.
Who gives a crap if there is a picture of a Border Collie on it.?? I like most dogs better than most people !!!!!
What does a windmill ,cactus or any of the things that past Presidents have put on the program in the past have to do with it ???? Who the Hell cares ?! There are a lot of more important things to worry about in this organization than the picture of some guys DOG !
I'm glad you feel that way. I was wondering if I became ATA president if the members would accept my putting a picture of a limit of walleye hanging on a chain stringer on the cover of the grand program? Now I know it would be accepted since the grand need not be associated with shooting and vice-versa.....
Nothing NEW about the practice of Presidents designing their own pins. Been going on for YEARS. Some of those where by Presidents that I'm sure YOU would say were highly associated with shooting. As I said who cares if it has a Dog on it. I sure DON'T !
some ranges ive been to, i had to carry a popsickle stick with me to clean out dog crap from my shoes. dogs arent better than people. they are dogs. at least trap shooters dont dump on the range or parking lot yet.
Then that is the fault of the dog's inconsiderate ,lazy OWNER ! For the most part I have found dogs to be better mannered than A LOT of people I have dealt with !
dogs are meant to be enjoyed privately. being displayed in public is vanity and reflects poorly on the sport and its participants.
The point I was trying to make is the ATA has drifted far away from what once was the norm (years ago) when it came to programs covers and them leaning toward promotion of the sport itself ... Personally, I do not care if they put dogs, Hookers, strippers, drunken sailors or names of Bars/restaurants on the cover if that is their thing ( if the shoe fits, wear it ) ... I actually like dogs a lot more than a lot of people I have met lately and like bobski not happy with the dog owners who do not pick up after their dog which is getting to be more and more of a common practice ... I do not get pissed at the dog because the dog does not know any better, but the owner damn sure does ... The ATA got way to far out of the Groove about 5 years before they relocated which is obvious by the loss of membership and attendees, especially at the grand so the cover is pretty much meaningless ... bobski, Dogs are better than a lot of people from what I have experienced and witnessed as of late, but I am a dog lover and I clean up after my dog ... I actually buy "Poop" bags 2,000 at a time and carry one with me all the time, I have stooped so low to pick up others peoples dogs shit before someone steps in it ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
I'm not bashing on dogs, I've had several over they years. Like some of the others my point is the dog doesn't belong on the Grand Program as it has nothing to do with the game of trap shooting any more than a picture of a trap shooter would represent a program for a dog show. I was a member of a retriever club in my youth and it's starting to strike me as odd that the same club today still uses a retriever as their logo? Maybe they should put a trap field instead, surely that would make you think retriever club would it not?!
Out dogs are family to us. People have a responsbilty to control and pick up after their dogs. If a gun club doesn't want my dog there then I don't want to be there , won't support it, and couldn't give two hoots in Hell if the place FOLDS ! If you don't like dogs then fine but ,I don't like people who have a deep dislike for dogs ! Saying a dog reflects one way or the other on the sport is pure BULL CRAP ! If you don't want a dog that is your business. I will keep control of mine but I, don't give a rats @$$ if you like my dog or not. If you don't wants dogs where you shoot , find a place that won't allow them But I sure as Hell won't be there !!!
dogs are allowed at my range as long as they are leashed, picked up and dont cause a disturbance to shooting. if they are loose, growl, and come at me, they are dead. i was attacked by a pack of pits, hospitalized and police arrested the owner, and i will never allow a dog within 3' of me. im scarred for life. i dont care if its your 3000.00 retriever. if it shows teeth, comes at me, raises its hair...its meat. period. for the record.
bobski, Better stop while your ahead when it comes to threats and peoples pets ... We are very fond of them and you ain't shooting no bodies pet unless your ready for a gun fight ... (For the Record) ... I had a guy threaten my dog while I was walking him, I told the guy I can get off 9 shots in 4.2 seconds ( in the black ) and you are not shooting my dog or making an attempt unless you are prepared to die ( For the Record ) he changed his mind ... There was a guy who threatened to give another guys dog Anti Freeze because it was barking, I told him the next time I see him I am going to force him to drink a 1/2 gallon of Anti Freeze and see how he likes the agonizing death from that, have never seen him since ... You and I will not get along face to face ( For the Record ) ... Keep your BS threats to yourself and watch where your walking so you don't step in shit, keep your stick handy just in case ... WPT ... (YAC)...
what part of... if the dog threatens me first, did you miss? they say dogs are like their owners. i agree. so back off.
so...back on topic and to the ata program. as i was saying, the cover is a public display of someones vanity. (or, for the over sensitive,) their joy or interest in a pet. im no rocket scientist, but what should be displayed in public when dealing with trap, is trap. if ata wants to do a bio on the ceo....THAT is where the dog should go. and yes...i did have some advertising background, in case some wonder. in nyc to be exact. regards and peace to all. but i do like the ignore feature atc offers! works great!
But it seems you and your pal have NO PROBLEM with all the other CRAP past presidents have put on their pins water falls, cactus, cowboys, horses you name it. I suppose you just want a picture of a clay target and a GUN ! All that seems a bit hypocritical to me. You hate dogs ( I get it) I'm sorry you got attacked but ,your attitude about all dogs makes about as much sense as someone hating ALL hispanics because they got robbed by a gang of mexican thugs. I would go along wih your defense as far as being "attacked" in any way but ,if anybody ever shot my dog simply because of a growl ,I would go along with wpt's way of DEALING with it ! Anyway, you won't ever have to worry about me bringing my dog to your "RANGE" becsuse ,i wouldn't shoot there if you had the LAST clay targets of the face of the EARTH !!!!! As far as peace goes , I don't think you re really too interested in that. As I have said before , I like MOST dogs better than a LOT of people --nyc hugh? Well maybe that explains a LOT !
I do not trust any who does not like dogs, or cats. Especially if they are not being put in danger by them. Roger C.
put in danger is the key, roger. many here are ignoring that point in order to start an argument. which are also the same people missing the point that ive owned so many cats and dogs in my life, that i cant stand to own them anymore, due to the broken hearts theyve given me upon their deaths. and most likely the same people who missed the point about how dogs are allowed on my range if rules are obeyed. no big deal.
Post the name of your Range so we can avoid it and take our dogs some place else ... My Dog is a Service Dog so actually he can go places bobski cannot go legally ... I do not abuse that fact and take him every place I go, but I could ... WPT ... (YAC) ....
im a guest at a very prestigious hunt club where the skeet range has one purpose, and thats to teach dogs not to flinch at the sound of gun fire. the owners all come to shoot on wednesdays after work and their dogs pour out of their cars. its a wild scene! like many skeet ranges that have clearing rods for guns at every corner of the field, this range has shovels to pick up after their dogs. shovels even lean up against the clubhouse door. all very accepted and used to keep the range clean. i dont have one problem with that. why? 1. im a guest. 2. the owners are responsible. 3. the owners know my past issue with the attack and call off dogs that get close. see, i respect them and accept the environment im called to, which is to help shooters improve their skills. no issue whatsoever. but, if im at MY range, and after asking owners to abide by rules, disobey me,...all im saying is they know the result of poor behaviour. and im not being selfish. i say this to protect my guests as well. i had a pack of dogs come thru my farm running down calves. i knew the dogs. i called the owner numerous times to warn him. next time his dogs came thru, you figure it out. i was cutting my lawn and had a neighbors dogs come at me. for years i told him to keep his dogs out of my yard. then it happened. i did everything they tell you to do to avoid an attack. i yelled to my neighbor to call off his dogs. no luck. i tried to get to my back door, but they attacked and tried to come in the back door after me. the one time i wasnt carrying...i got attacked. called the cops. arrested him. dogs were put down. so defend your dogs all you want. they are animals. they take after their owners. and for someone to tell me on an open forum that they trust a dog over human (or me), tells me maybe the sport of shotgunning deserves to suffer an ill fate of low participation, if thats the kind of people its attracting. i shoot to meet people. its called being sociable. i will be glad to be introduced to your wife or family at a shoot. but dont even think if you introduce me to your dog, that i will be impressed. they are an expendable commodity used in a sport. and this is what i see when i see a dog on an ata program. and dont tell me i dont know dogs. there are 4 licensed vets in the business in my family and one is a groomer/boarder. i stick by my claims and opinions. try as you might, it wont budge. its part of being american.
For someone who claims to have nothing to defend you spend a lot of time defending it ... So, you are a range own and then you are a guest at a very elite skeet range that teaches dog s to not flinch at the sound of gun fire, yet you hate and have no use for dogs ... I would ban you and let the dogs in not wanting to take any chances of a dog biting you and not being able to get the taste out of the dogs mouth for several days ... This is my nephews dog ( Police K-9) , if that dog ever attacked you the scars would not matter ... Loves it when people run, loves fast food ... Nice smile huh ..? WPT ... (YAC) ...
bobski, You sound like a person I would not call friend. Be very careful some day you may hurt or kill the wrong animal. Pet lovers can get very upset if anyone injures their pet. Maybe you should not be around guns. Roger C.
Wow, did this thread go off the tracks. I took another look at the program cover. Maybe that boarder collie with the ata neckerchief is on there because the Pres lives across the BOARDER? I see the water tower from that place and that makes sense. What do the waterfowl have to do with clay target shooting? Or the mountains that are depicted? I doubt very much if the Pres sat down and designed the cover. I doubt that he even had any input into what went on the cover. I would guess that a marketing and or printing company was given some info on the Pres, like where he lived, and wanted to show he was from across the BOARDER. He might have been shown the cover beforehand just to see if he approved but that was probably about it. Not that big of a deal guys. Surely not big enough to cause the train wreck this thread turned into. Good thing no one ever fell out of a boat waterfowl hunting. I don’t like the waterfowl on the cover. I lost my uncle duck hunting and it reminds me of that terrible day. Or the mountains The mountains remind me of the time we were stranded on the mountain for weeks and had to eat one of the people that died from exposure And that water tower? I hate that water tower on the cover. Reminds me of the time we were drunk and climbed one to tag it and one of the drunk guys fell off and died. Just the sight of a water tower upsets me. Everyone take a deep breath and relax. In the long run that cover isn’t that big of a deal.
I WOULD like to know what the letter G stands for on that dogs collar. If that is for the dogs name and the Pres actually told the marketers or printers that he wanted his dog on the cover forget everything I said in the previous post. That was just plain dumb marketing
i think its all pretty entertaining. i can only wonder how many have to run to the med-locker and take gliserin tabs to recover from reading these posts. what a world we live in. im...over and out.
It was entertaining and fine until it went sideways. dogs are allowed at my range as long as they are leashed, picked up and dont cause a disturbance to shooting. if they are loose, growl, and come at me, they are dead.
cyber bullies are everywhere. i lead too wonderful a life to be involved with forum bar fights. especially here.
