Talking to Dan Bonillas

This week I met Dan Bonillas in the Perazzi building. I used to watch Dan and his pals shoot at the Grand when the grand was Grand in Vandalia. Those guys could draw a crowd. There was big money in the game and big crowds. Dan smiled when I said I remembered him shooting. He said. "the shoot management assigned security" to their squad. "It was not unusual to have someone diving for the shells you were ejecting."

I asked Dan if he thought there was more talent now. His eyebrows curled a bit at the statement. He said, "You only have higher scores. We were shooting for big money. Now they made the targets easier, the shells are faster and maybe the guns are better. Definitely the talent is not better!"

I asked Dan what he thought one of the biggest problems are with registered shooting and without hesitation he replied, "making the targets easier. Now everyone can go out and get a good score."

I waited and he continued, "The blue collar shooters are gone. In the big shoots like Vandalia each day the crowds and numbers of shooters grew and grew. As you approached the weekend the penalty A shooters showed up. We don't have the crowds and they need to get those shooters back. People keep saying you are living in the past. Well the past was darn good."

------------------------------------------------------------------------------End day 1-------------------------------

Something was left out that I wanted to discuss with Dan. Today I returned with a different goal.

Once I got Mr. Bonillas' attention I told him I thought something else is different. I wanted to provoke a response. I said, " Back when you were shooting we had something we don't have now. We had trapshooting heroes. Great shooters that were not afraid to speak their mind or be published. We had people like Frank Little pushing his sustained lead and power to the bird and Don Zutz publishing his opinions." I said there were others.

I had Dan's attention. I pushed further. "The only person we have now not afraid of giving an honest opinion is Brad Dysinger. Brad isn't afraid to throw the punches and tell it like it is."

Dan was quick to respond. "These guys don't want to give any information out. They would rather give shooting lessons. I never said something at one of my lessons that I would not give you or say in person. There aren't any secrets."

He had more to say and the response I wanted to hear was coming. "My opinions were known. I wrote and was interviewed often." And he is right!

I told Dan we lack that leadership now. Dan said he would take a look at our forum.

Dan, if you read this I would like to thank you for your time and what you have done for the sport.

Family Guy

 

Good stuff.

The sport does need heroes, and it does need tougher targets. In Baseball, a great hitter like Cabrera will bat .348, and everyone respects him as outstanding. Tom Brady completes 64% of his passes and is regarded as the greatest. Michael Jordan shot around 50% and is regarded as the greatest.

Let's get more missing. Let's have a broken target be special. A great baseball player will have 550 at-bats and 40 home runs. You'll only see a power hitter hit a home run once in every 14 at-bats, but everyone is still on the edge of their seats with anticipation when the big hitter comes to the plate. Let the hit be the exciting part, not the miss. From a spectator's perspective, waiting for a hit is a lot more interesting than waiting for a miss.

 

I totally agree with Dan Bonillas, as his perspective is correct.
Thanks Dan

Gary Bryant Dr.longshot

 

Very interesting and I agree with Dan also. He is one of the Greatest to ever walk onto a Trap field.

 

BD was afraid to throw 3-hole targets at the Cardinal Center when he was tournament director, wasn’t he?

Dan's interviews in T&F were always worth reading. In fact, I think one lead off "Shoot'n Trap" in Volume 1, Issue 1, on brown paper and I still have it.

N1H1

 

BD was afraid? Well I guess that will probably take care of today's entertainment. I don't know the story behind the remark so now I'll have to stay tuned.

 

Well, he didn't do it in any case, "tell it like it is" though he does. I was guessing, I admit. Perhaps he just didn't want to drive his customers away.

 

You've just admitted that all 2-hole targets are for chickens who are afraid of a tougher target.

 

N1H1, evidently there isn't many shooters that can tell the differences when shooting 44 degree angles and 34 degree targets. Whether set that way intentionally or by mistake, some traps at this years Grand were true straights from posts 1 and 5! Height wise, they were set on the high side and if winds interfered, they went climbing.

Several experienced shooters scores were on the lower side even on some good shooting days and weren't aware of any slight difference! Several shooters I chatted with merely chalked it up to having an off day while others knew they were shooting 44 degree angles? I thought it was a very cleaver idea though!

I'd like to say that was the reason for my poor showing but it certainly wasn't at all!! I loved the target setting!

HAP

 

At this years Ohio State Shoot I saw straights from 1 and 5 on several traps so some were set at 3 holers

 

Did you notice whether the 3-holes were being used in Singles or Handicap?

 

This guy is not from Minnesota?

 

But Hap, I'm sure the "2-hole bars" were in. How is it possible that the target-widths varied? Are you sayin, that you have to do a lot more than stick a bar in to get the targets right, particularly on ten-year-old traps with no documented maintenance? Wasn't that the whole point of the infamous "Interesting EC minutes" thread? Traps without bars are "therefore" "out of ATA guidelines?"

N1H1

 

Neil, I didn't say the traps were out of specks at all or throwing an illegal angle! No, I didn't inspect either the condition or settings on any spacer bars in any house I shot on. I stated I shot straights from posts one and five on two traps and 34 degree angles on the other two! How they managed to do that either accidently on such worn traps, I can't say but I think if intentionally set as such, it was a brilliant move!

Speaking of maintenance, the voice calls are in dire need of attention for sure! As for the Tucson settings, I think bullish authority was more in play than any illegal target settings? I'd have to ask why the demand to replace those spacer bars wasn't requested the evening before rather than a half hour before the event start time the next morning?

I thought it was angle degrees strived for and not some other material to prevent illegal targets from being thrown?

HAP

 

Hap, I think the way to set angles is via the "Pierce Anglemaster " electronic device. I think you can come close with other methods but you have to work at it a lot more and it takes more people who are careful. Of course, you can get that straight target on one side from a sidewind from any trap, but only in one direction.

Our targets were variable in height at Sparta, but if they were what we thought of as too high or too low, I'm sure we could have gotten them moved, and I faintly remember doing it once. I do not blame "target setting" for this. They first set them shortly after sun-up and we shot at ten or eleven, after three or six squads had already been then and maybe had asked for a change, maybe not. The wind was often different from that pertaining four or five hours earlier anyway. So maybe they were better. Or worse. In any case, the only ones I now wished we had changed were the first two in the GAH but by that time I find my competitive spirit mostly burned out and we just pulled the trigger at whatever the trap threw.

We had caller problems too. Equipment maintenance was at least mentioned at the Annual Meeting; I hope the ATA was listening.

Yours in Sport,

N1H1

 

ATTENTION: Not only did I like Dan Bonillas's responses, but he stated what most of us on this site have been saying to the ATA, and quite to the opposite of what Neil Winston professes, and had the Target Specifications changed, I agree the shooters are not better today, they are shooting a different EASY TARGET, where almost everybody can break good scores.

Dan Bonillas was one of the great shooters, and Perazzi named a trapgun after him the DB-81, DB Stood for Dan Bonillas, what greater credit can a gun Mfgr. Like Perazzi give a great shooter. Dan designed that gun.

Thanks for your input again Mr. Bonillas.

Gary Bryant Dr.longshot

 

Neil, most average competitors will take a shot at any target setting, especially at our Grandest shoot of all without bothering to change them. They spend their hard earned money at their home clubs shooting the most legal targets possible for their Grand experience.

As we've discussed before, we should concentrate on giving the B, C and D class shooters the most breakable target setting possible, even at our Grand American! Those shooters just happen to be our sports bread and butter members? This target yo-yoing has the average guys so danged confused they have no inkling of what a legal target is supposed to look like! They just shoot at them and hope. This is a direct result of rule changes thinking that slowing the targets and lessening the angles would be best? Not so at all! Stabilizing a clay is accomplished with more speed and higher target RPMs in the slight wind conditions! The top shooters? Doesn't matter much how we set targets for those guys/gals, they will get their fair share regardless!

Targets set at almost max height with the current speed limits just begs for yo-yoing as breezes increase or change directions! Sir, that method certainly isn't what's best for our sport at all! Has all this change been the best for our sport? In my less than humble opinion, it certainly hasn't.

I know a few club operators that KNOW how to set targets the average shooters can and do break quite well! Their Grand experiences are far different and very discouraging to say the least. None would volunteer to set targets at our Grand, I asked! :-(

HAP

 

I asked Dan what he thought one of the biggest problems are with registered shooting and without hesitation he replied, "making the targets easier. Now everyone can go out and get a good score."

"People keep saying you are living in the past. Well the past was darn good."

 

I did see some 3 hole outhouses on trailers headed in the direction of Illinois

GB DLS

 

First I had to get shooters used to a 50 yard target set with a T-Bar, next would be three hole. You can't take a dope addict off of a drug all at once you have to ween him. Old bitter x ata officials are the ones that should return to their past. I never worried what an ata ec member had to say when I was shooting why in the hell would I worry about an xx one today.

This would be a good time for a graph.

Regarding Dan he was my ruler that I measured myself against when I started shooting in 1974. Dan has always said what was on his mind and was the shooter to beat. He was honest, played the game the way I wanted to and he was respected by his peers. If Dan had a 99 on the board you damn well knew he broke it. There were a lot of free targets given to shooters but I knew he wasn't one of them. I've never been able to look up to target claimers and there have been a lot of them over the years. Dan showed me the honor of being an All American was as important as being an All American.

Leo and I used to dream of winning at the Grand and being on the AA team. After about 1997 I didn't have that same dream, today with how deluded the AA teams are I'm with Dan. What he said. Brad

 

"target claimers". We all remember that one big guy (all 6'7") who mastered the technique. Even had a "potato chip" named after him. Never speak ill of the dead said my Momma!

 

Been out of the loop for so long. What is a "target claimer"?

 

I was always told "If you have nothing to hide, Hide nothing", which is where Dan Bonillas comes from ... He tells it like it is at least from his perspective, and many people agree with him ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Dan is one of the good guys!

 

Years back, a very good friend was shooting with DB and he'd slightly chipped a target. Two squadmates said they saw the chip and DB said "I missed that target", mark it lost and continued on breaking a terrific caps score a target down!! DB said his integrity was much more important than a single clay! How many have you seen do that? A terrific shot and a true sportsman in our sport!

HAP

 

A number of years ago I remember an Article in a Shooting magazine on Dan Bonillas. If my memory serves me right it was controversial on and about the ATA. Target settings etc.

Trap& Field will not write or print an article in it's magazine, that is controversial and could help the sport of ATA Trapshooting.

Trap & Field try or attempted to sue a magazine that had the ATA Shoot schedule printed in it. The Trap & Field editor said they owned the schedule and had the rights to it.

At the time the ATA was wanting people to promote ATA, this magazine that was read by 100s of thousand shooters was giving the ATA free advertising. Then bitched and attempted to sue the magazine over what they had asked for PROMOTING ATA SHOOTING.

Does anyone recall the name of that Magazine?

Gary Bryant.............Dr.longshot

 

100's of thousand shooters?

I bet you're exaggerating by at least 10 to 15 people.

 

OK, TENS of thousands.
Do you know the name of it or not?

Flyersarebest

 

If you and your buds from that old site are going to try and belittle Gary on every post he makes you

BETTER GET MORE HELP

Flyersarebest

 

Shotgun News or something like that comes to mind, it was a fairly new Shotgun Magazine, they had a lot of articles including Sporting Clays, Skeet Shooting, Trap shooting, and Others articles, Very Informative. Leo Harrison had an article also, besides Dan Bonillas.

Gary Bryant>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Dr.longshot

 

I may have missed the count by 1 or 2, I never asked the magazine for an audit of readers, + there were readers at the Magazine racks that never purchased the magazine. Don Zutz had articles on reloading, I think I got his last name wrong.

Gary Bryant...........................Dr.longshot

 

"Shooting Trap." Published by Clay Target Champion Frank Kodl, shooting a Ljutic with a 0.710 choke tube and one ounce Remington shells, 8 1/2's as I remember. I already mentioned the magazine somewhere here, didn't I? It's now "Shotgun Sports." Frank was, of course, the one who published my "Letter to the Delegates." You all know what happened then . . .

N1H1

 

I remember the magazine now.

The biggest reason most of the readers bought it was to read N1H1s informative and wise articles.

 

If there was ever a GREAT reason for a chart, graph, or anything else to make a point it would be for the attendance at the WSRC, and amount of money they cost the tax payers of the State of Illinois each year for the past 11 years ... It would be a prime time special and save the State a bunch of money rather than have to make their own ... Talk about an informative and wise article somebody is missing the boat on that one, thats for sure ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Thank You, gotta love that sense of humor. I know you had to post that to be funny. Damn near made me tear up.

I am into the second day of my wife's mothers funeral. Tomorrow and Monday I am helping my sister with the funeral of her husband. They died one day apart. This has been a tough time.

Your post was one of the funniest, not THE funniest, but right up there. I needed a laugh.

 

Sorry for the families losses.

You did see the next post before I.

Hahahahaahhaha....ROTFLMAO...

OMG, that has got to be the funniest thing you have ever posted.

Thanks Leonidas.

 

Flyerarebest, condolences on your families losses.

Ajax

 

flyers, sorry for the loss of your family members.

 

Condolances to you and the family, hope they rest in peace and dance with the Angels ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Thank you Gentlemen. Kind of puts all that Sparta/ CC/ ATA stuff in perspective doesn't it?

I actually had plans to attend that big flyers shoot this weekend. Had all the money from those 60 hour weeks I was working and was ready to play all the options.

Maybe my mother in law and brother in law knew something I didn't. I like to think they did.

Hey dummy, you might not know it but we just saved you over $3000.00

You always hear those stories about in laws but mine were just great. I'll miss them both. In fact, for one shoot, my mother in law wanted to know how much she would win if she backed me. She LOVED to gamble.

Thanks again guys. Two more days of taking care of the family.

Flyersarebest ( but not the most important)

 

I was shooting behind Dan one time in Vegas, doubles, he dusted the heck out of bird, scorer called it dead a pair, he immediately turned and said "dead, lost". Have seen Ray do the same, first class guys here.

 

All I Have To Say Is The Grands Of The Past.The 90's And Earlier Were Definitely The Golden Age Of Trapshooting And I For One Am Thankful To Have Been Able To Participate And Witness The Truly Great Shooters Do There Thing Because There Will Never Be Any Shooters Of That Quality To Replace Them. I'm Convinced There Molds Were Broken And This New Generation Doesn't Have The Heart For It.

 

I think that their are several shooters that will do just fine on harder birds. One named Joe from here in Ohio would do just great, that's how he shoots pigeons so well. Not you Familyguy the other Joe.

 

I would like to see a return to the 3-hole target setting and target requirements reduced to the 500 current year as it was when I started in the 80's. Todays target requirements combined with higher shell costs, gas prices, accommodation prices etc and living in an area where the nearest club can be a 5 hour drive has priced the blue collar shooter out of the game. When new shooters at our local club show interest in shooting registered once they see the logistics and costs involved to get the targets required every one of them says no and just sticks to shooting practice trap and local fun shoots. Even I find myself doing more of the fun shoots than registered due to the reasons above.

 

Getting and keeping new shooters is a challenge to say the least. The days of using the older standards are gone. Today we have a watered down game with narrow 2 hole wide targets thrown from PAT traps with instant voice releases . The target requirements of the past were OK when there were plenty of trap fields . I would venture to guess that WELL OVER HALF of those fields are GONE now. Now people are driving long distances to shoot at a range that throws registered targets. I know here in the south we have lost very many trap fields ( and there were not a great number to start with !) ---The youth programs have helped but they have not kept up with the rate of attraction . Also many kids quit after they are not on mom and dad's dime anymore. Even with them factored in ,the age of the average trapshooter isnow in the middle to late 50s. Rising cost of the game , especially ammo ,( coupled with the extra competition for disposable family income ) have caused a reduction in ATA shooting. Couple those all those factors with the the lack of ammo availability ,and introduction of Sporting Clays which have drained the support and money from the shooting sports industry, and it has been a perfect storm that has hit the trapshooting world pretty hard !

 

pump gun guy, Incompetence in the ATA has had the biggest drag on the game. They have made to many dumb mistakes to mention. Roger C.

 

I am certainly not discounting the missteps made by the ATA ( and there have been many) ,the factors I mentioned above still had great impact on the sport and have certainly taken their toll over the years. All together it has been a perfect storm that has caused all this .

 

Hiestand BRAD

 

Joseph Charnigo, OH.

 

come to my range. its always been 3 hole.
my range motto is...'good ole fashion skeet and trap.'

 

heck, for shoot off's ive been known to 5 hole it!

 

Why don't ya shoot and enjoy the sport for what it is. If it's that big a deal, quit and go to the bowling alley and eat cheeseburgers and drink beer. I started on 3 h. targets, I don't care if they go to 2 hole 4 hole or whatever.

If it doesn't suit ya, quit. No one is forcing ya to shoot.

Piss and moan about something ya can't control.

Ya sound like a woman

 

You did read the title of this thread right?
In your world if someone “complains” about the targets they are “ pissing and moaining”. So Mr. Bonillas “ sounds like a woman”. Really?

“No one is forcing you to shoot”

From the pathetic numbers the GAH event has drawn it looks like 2000+ shooters agreed with you.

“Enjoy the sport for what it is”
That’s funny right there, I don’t care who you are.

What it is, is one big cluster^*~/
I don’t know about you but I was never into group sex

 

That would depend on the make up of the group I would guess.

 

Professional trap readers loved 3-hole targets since they shot mostly straightaways anyway. Mere mortals shot what they threw!

 

I never could read a trap because I was taught by the guys I started to shoot with not to....they said it could mess you up bad so I have never tried. Every single target has and always will be an "unknown" to me but I did find your post funny as hell!

 

Trap readers were set apart from other shooter's when the interrupter was introduced.

No one read a trap after the interrupter.

 

So, most clubs had interrupters installed around 1972. A few removed them some time later.. What about records established prior to 1972?

 

Who and how many could read a trap without the interrupter?

 

It was very doable. Shoot with the same squad all the time get your timing set and put the odds in your favor. Some clubs removed the interruptors , and put their machines in the one hole. They are the same ones that ruined the sport. Roger C.

 

Never heard of that. Must have been a east coast decision.

 

Me, for one, as it was real easy. Once I learned the system it was quite simple to shoot the target the shooter before you shot. If you didn't like hard angles you could easily straighten 'em out. If it was a quarter angle it would be best to just shoot it as thrown. I doubt I could do that today since old age doesn't allow me to maintain the timing necessary to be successful. Rumor had it some of the record holder top shots of that era either quit or were never that good again.

 

I actually wouldn't know.

I didn't shoot till '84 on 3 hole targets.

I set my practice targets at 51yds. and 9 ft.

 

Dang rookies!

 

Well, at least I'm not in a wheelchair like some of our brother's for what ever reason.

76 yrs.of age

 

A walker is calling me at 73 yo! At least I outlived most of the trapshooters from that era.

 

Good for you. Keep kickin'

 

If any club removed an interrupter after 1970 ,they did so in violation of ATA rules. The ATA mandated them in 1969 and that ALL traps had them by 1970. I never shot on one that didn't have one after 1970.

 

Odd . I shot a lot of 3 hole targets and most I seem to get were angles . Maybe I just wasn't doing it right.

 

Morrie Steinberg, sure could read a trap. I watched him countless times in the mid and late eighties.

 

to a certain point maybe ( until the trap stops oscillation) but the interrupters ( which were put on them in the very early 70s )fouled up that practice for the most part. There is simply no way somebody can see thru the back wall of a trap house and see what position the trap stopped in. If they shot REALLY fast they could do it a some of the time but the interrupter would get them in the end. BTW I watched him COUNTLESS times myself.

 

"Violation of the ATA rules", I'm still waiting for an appearance from the Official ATA Enforcement Officer-anyone see him/her or it lately?

 

Individuals who are acting shoot mgt. are tasked with and are "SUPPOSED" to enforce the rules. The two problems are that most don't want to, and too many don't know what they are in the FIRST PLACE !

 

I never had a problem with anyone that could “read” a trap. To me it was just the same as a guy that could count cards at blackjack. If they were smart enough to use the brain God gave them and dedicated enough to put in the time and effort, good for them.

Complaining about it is right up here with
I can’t win and I don’t want to practice more or I just don’t have the talent so they should make it easier and add more categories.

 

41 shooters, 34 posted 91+, 2-100's, 6-99's...low score was an 81 and D Class champ was a 98?!! We need a return to the three hole!! I blocked out names and location as to not upset anyone.

 

Just like the bison those times are past. Declare your lesbian tendencies and shoot as a woman.

I'm sure you saw a man won the Nevada Miss USA pageant. My son is always telling his girl friend that men are better at doing things than woman so he told her after this news that now men are even better at being woman than woman are. A chip off the old block if I do say so.

 

My wife's sister sent me a birthday card a few years ago,

What does it mean when a husband and wife are in bed and he is screaming out her name and is having trouble breathing?

She's not holding the pillow over his nose and mouth tight enough.

Just sayin.....ya have to sleep sometime.

 

I'd like to see the NSSA/NSCA be the governing body for trap. I shot registered skeet for a few years and I liked the way they run things much better than the ATA. They actually help clubs big and small to promote the sport whereas many ATA state and provincial bodies do their utmost to alienate many of their shooters and smaller remotely located clubs.
I also like one of the first things that jumps out at you in the NSSA rule book..."there is no gratuities allowed in skeet". What I really liked in registered skeet is pullers-scorers have to be trained referees familiar with the rule book and must pass a test before they can be referees and work events.

 

Sure, and registered skeet shooting attendance is growing by leaps and bounds.

 

And trapshooting attendance is? The NSSA/NSCA runs a cleaner ship from my experience being involved in both.....

 

Registered skeet shooting is on life support as is skeet shooting in general. Registered trap has it's own issues but is still breathing without use of a ventilator.