Should have ATA target angles and distance been changed? POLL

Should have ATA target angles and distance been changed?

What in your opinion has been the result?

 

What difference does it make? It was done a long time ago. Do something useful like get a petition drive going with 1,000's of member names that want it changed back. Get name and ATA number or it isn't going to mean a thing. If you want it changed do something positive about it complaining on here is going to accomplish nothing.

Lefty

 

Very good question Dr,

I enjoy the challenge of hitting difficult shots when shooting trap. Hard lefts and rights add to the interest in the game. Making the game easier by reducing the angles or shortening the distances would dilute the sport of trapshooting. Perhaps the old bird presentations would be a welcome change.

 

Have to agree with Lefty -

 

Makes one wonder what Lefty fears. Is it the hard left? Maybe the hard right?

 

Lefty you have a way not to answer the POLL, I have to agree with Matt & John, all I see that has happened with all the rule changes, a sport that was once competitive, is not competitive, Bigger shells and Narrower, shorther Angles is like CHEATING THE SPORT.
We need some more answers on the poll, ANSWERS. And Why.

 

Shooters arguing among themselves won't accomplish much of anything except for hard feelings.

Getting shooters to sign this or that won't either as it means nothing to the EC or anyone else. It takes our state delegates to change our rules and that's the ONLY way for that to happen. I've always said, come state shoot time, choose your delegates very carefully.

HAP

I forgot to add my opinion. NO! Our EC, Delegates and membership choose the easier way to higher scores and averages!

 

Hap is exactly right it all starts with your delegate, from there to the zone, from there to the EC and from there to the President. You must get a majority in favor of your wishes or it will die on the vine. If every state got the petitions and gave them to their delegates then change should/would be considered. Right now it appears to be a Ohio issue, how does your delegate feel about it.

Lefty

Matt I really don't fear any target and I have shot both 2 and 3 hole targets have you??

 

Three hole 5o yard targets are fine with me. Clubs around here that don't shoot registered targets do use the 3 hole angle. My opinion on the 2 hole is that there are more 100's so there is more of the "feel good" shooters kind of what the "Left" is trying to do in our school sports handing everybody a trophy. On another post I stated that I'm an average guy that breaks a good score once in awhile and I keep coming back for more.

 

Wheres the poll?

 

I rarely get to shoot the 2 hole targets. I am not great at either.

 

I wonder what really is the difference as long as we all are subject to the same conditions?

 

If these two hole targets are so easy,why do we still have B,C,and D class shooters? Most of the shoots I go to just have two classes,those who won and the rest of us.We are all shooting the same targets at the shoots.Reminds me of the saying \\\ Easy for me,difficult for you.
Most of the shooters I know do not have unlimited funds for unlimited practice rounds.Me and my shooting friends haven't shot 50 or a 100 thousand ATA targets.We are just average shooters
in this game.We are not circuit shooters.Maybe 4 hole targets and wobble would solve the difficulty problem.Really toughen up the game.Maybe make smaller targets.All this would be fare as long as everyone shot the same targets..Just my opinion.

 

ATA shooters have voted in the past with their wallets. Two hole targets will be the standard ATA target. Last time the ATA went to a three hole target, some clubs continued to throw a two hole target. People shot better scores on two hole targets, so guess where the shooters went to shoot ... where they shot better scores. Apparently, some clubs even throw soft targets ... imagine that.

 

NO

 

What people fail to admit is targets in the 3-hole era were often compromised. Good trap readers in that era (there were many) never shot a hard angle unless they chose to. "Straightening out the angles" was real easy on those old Winchester hand sets. Often, when the 3-hole was stripped out an extra hole was drilled and threaded midway between the 2 and 3 hole making it a 2.5 hole target.

Making it tougher at this time for already overly challenged B,C and D shooters may not be in the best interests of the game. Real tough targets are already here in Sporting Clays and we've relinquished that faction to them.

The biggest problem we have today is we've lost the money part of the game. That was Traps strong point to draw on and the little fish are no longer willing to get eaten by the big fish. The handicap system is broken and that's where we need to direct our attention. Making it a little tougher on the biggest fish with increased yardage is the only logical fix!

 

I would go for the longer yardage. The clubs that cant do it don't have to do it.

 

No cause Big Don can't shoot them.

 

I agree with the longer yardage. As for angles NO. I also agree with Ollie on the fact the luster is lost in the money game. That truly is or was the draw. We have become a society of "everybody gets a medal" and in gambling that does not fly.
I struggle with trying to draw shooters to our club and keep our registered shoots. We throw great targets, have a 5 star facility and background, have some of the best most liked guys running our shoots efficiently and we are a reasonable price. I have spent hours sending emails, putting up flyers etc. etc. etc. and yet we maintain close to same # of shooters.
We run a two day shoot that has 70-80 shooters and we give out leather awards. In the aftermath of a shoot at the next board meeting giving a expense run down to the rest of the board it sounds like this..........."with 80 shooters a day and all help paid and awards I think we made 200 bucks.." Try and convince the rest of the board to keep having shoots and volunteering there time!
This is where its getting hard to do. You have to HAVE a shoot to have shooters. IMO, restructure the shoots to where clubs have some sort of drive to have the shoot. ie, more shoots. I do not know that answer.

 

Maybe a few more of us have seen a small number of former Sporting Clays shooters trying their hand at Trap. It's quite possible target difficulty and increased cost might also send a few in our direction. Problem is, what do we have to offer when they show up. Simply saying it might be a great idea to join the ATA and pay more money for targets with the hope of winning a pewter plate or flashlight trophy won't cut it. When the Grand offered huge cash prizes recruitment was far easier.

I've often suggested another ATA event possibly called something like Modified or Super ATA targets. Targets set with increasing difficulty like 2-3-4-5 hole with options might draw more Sporties to a Trapshoot. If we can't beat Sporting maybe it's best to try to compete with them for shooters. Our local Sporting Clays Course is generally so busy it's hard to get on the course. Doing nothing simply hastens our demise!!

 

" I've always said, come state shoot time, choose your delegates very carefully." Hap ...

The problem with some of the Delegates is they do what they are told to do and how to (vote) by the EC and what they told those who elected them goes out the window, once they are gone it no longer matters and the damage is done ... Integrity is a wonderfull thing, you either have it or you don't and that goes for Delegates and for the EC as well ... Without Integrity you are just another nobody who was someone for a brief period of time but not based on who or what you really are ... wpt ... (yac) ...

 

The 'money' part of Trap and the ATA is very simple ....

Next time your at a 'local' shoot try this ....

Ask ..... "Do you want to join the ATA to register your targets ???" ..... answer most of the time ..."why","no", and so on ....

Ask ..... "Would you join the ATA, if you can now earn All American Points in the new categories ???" .... answer "what is that and what do I do with them" .....

Then ask .... "Would you join the ATA if you felt you had a 'GOOD' chance of winning five hundred dollars or more ???" ..... answer is ????

 

Gary,
I like you, but picking at an old sore (sores) with never let them heal ... The ATA made a lot of changes that they never asked for the members opinion or advise on and like it or not thats the way it is ... There are a lot of shooters who have let them know how they feel with their wallet, I am one of them and have cut back and gotten to the point that I don't care if I ever shoot registered targets again unless I get the itch, then I go scratch it ... The attendance at the Grand is more proof that a lot of people got pissed off and are making them pay by not showing up ... Silence is "Golden" and does not go unoticed which creates another catch 22 because there is nothing the ATA can do to change it now that its been done ... The ATA got what the ATA wanted and also eliminated that old saying build it and they will come, because they won't ... I have been a Life Member of the ATA for going on 40 years, have seen many changes just like you have but be dammed if I am going to let them eat at me any longer than I did initially ... If I choose to shoot it will be by my choice and not to benefit an organization who could care less about its membership ... wpt .... ( yac) ...

 

Bill that was well said.

 

Sounds just like the last meeting at our club after our two day shoot , almost word for word .

 

Shoots certainly aren't the money makers they once were.
At the clubs I belong to the majority of the membership doesn't support competition.
They just like to come out and shoot for fun with friends.
These shooters could care less if the club held any kind of competition, Trap Sporting or Skeet.

I think fewer clubs will be holding anything put practice.
You need to give the membership what it wants.

 

Wishbone. you hit the nail on the head.One of the clubs I belong to has Trap,Skeet and 5 Stand.
We have no registered events.Out of about 350 members we have maybe 4 ATA shooters and may be 3 NSSA skeet shooters.We can't even get a decent crowd for Turkey shoots.I think most of the shooters at my club don't want to reach to far into there pocket .I think competition makes you a better shooter because you have to pay more attention when you shoot.This club also dosent use score keepers.Maybe with the cheaper gas more shooters will travel to more ATA events.Sparta would do better if the motel situation was better.Vandalia did better because of more motels and places to eat.My wife would go to Vandalia and loved it.Doesn't like Sparta.nothing to do,No shade trees and no good places to eat ,unless you drive to StLouis and eat on the Hill.

 

I was at Hocking Valley Sportsmans Club Last Sunday and they had over 50 Sporting Clays shooters whom most shot the course twice, there was quite a few in their 20s, they finished around 3:30pm

 

Thanks for the reply, I agree too

 

3 hole wobble on all traps would be very competitive and difficult and create big payouts for the winners, and bigger Lewis Payouts nice thought

 

Ken Vic and I shot those 3 hole targets for many years, there was no need for a change

 

I agree

 

While you are asking about winning 500 dollars shooting some targets ,also ask if they are willing to put a extra 20 bucks in the pot.The B ,C ,D shooters have wised up.Have you ever wondered where the money for the payoff comes from??? Let me know when you find the answer??Clue!!! Maybe the shooter that played the money...

 

Bumping classic threads for doc

 

As mostly a Sporting shooter yes, bigger angles. Wobble is so much more fun. Going to a state event and seeing multiple 200s is disheartening (and no I’m not one of them). I appreciate the focus and dedication and mental aspect of this game and believe it is a special skill set BUT it is boring to watch and some days grinding out 300 targets is boring (yes I understand that’s part of the game). Furthermore, Trap seems to have less and less of the fundamentals of wing shooting. As an alternative to angles possibly another game, low gun start with a delay up to 3 seconds after calling. That will get the Trap curmudgeons riled up.

 

What’s the point for someone that’s never shot trap before to get to the point where they can run 200’s and big handicap scores? There’s no money any more, and what logical person can say they spend tens of thousands (or even thousands) of dollars to compete at a sport where you can’t win enough to cover your expenses?

 

Uh, to have fun and enjoy the competition and friendship.

I know two guys who took up golf not long ago and now spend $35-40K/year on it (each). Should they stop because they can't "cover their expenses"?

What about all the people who go to casinos or horse races or bet on sports? Do you really think the vast majority of them aren't losing consistently? One of the golf guys mentioned above is a meticulous numbers guy. His wife has been going to casinos at least twice per month since 2009, and he logs every visit in a spreadsheet. In nearly 14 years of gambling his wife has made money in just two months. One winning month was $7 and the other was just over $4K. Overall she's lost nearly $60K. Her husband's take on it? ..."We both worked hard, raised kids and put them through college and paid for their weddings, now we're enjoying what's left of our lives golfing, gambling and vacationing."

God Bless America.

Roy

 

Sure, people can spend their money on whatever they enjoy, but based on the recent/current numbers- that ain’t trapshooting. It’s a good competitive sport (or used to be), but there’s no incentive anymore.

 

How about at ATA events we went with a maximum shot payload of 1oz.? and shell velocity stays where it is..... OR would the recoil device people hate it too much???

 

Some of us actually enjoy trapshooting as a sport/hobby. So the incentive is having fun and making friends. Griping about how much better things were 40 years ago doesn't seem like much fun to me. Even if, in some ways, it's true.

Lots of things were better 40 years ago. Does that mean we should be miserable today? Or should we choose to enjoy life, friends and family and be thankful for what's still good?

Roy

 

That broad is playing the wrong machines. Either that or she is betting the minimum 50 cents per spin on a penny denomination machine.

 

In other words you stick your head in the sand and wonder why there are so few people shooting with you compared to years ago?

 

Probably because most of the people he shot with 40 years ago are dead.

 

That’s the point, they aren’t being replaced by new shooters.

 

Why should they. The money's gone and prizes suck at many shoots. The big dogs are under-handicapped but at least with so many categories everyone gets a feel-good participation trophy. Well, if you shoot decent you get points not redeemable at a gas station.. At least if you shoot the required number of targets you'll probably make a state team and if you have deep pockets you could make an All-American team. What's not to like?

 

I don't put my head in the sand about anything. I like shooting trap, so I shoot trap. I don't need my hobbies to be popular.

Sure, it would be cool if it was just like 1975 and there was a fresh crop of new suckers getting into trap every year, playing the money, and begging to be skinned alive by the top shooters (who also knew how to read the traps). But pyramid schemes like that only last so long before you run out of suckers. So rather than lament ancient history, I'll play the options at some of the bigger shoots and be thrilled if I win $500 or $1,000. I don't need to cover my costs or make a living at it. I have a job for that.

Roy

 

Suprisingly not. Her husband says she's always dreamed of winning 10 grand. So if she's up 2 grand or 8 grand, she doesn't have the sense to walk out a winner. She just gives it right back. The only reason she won the 4 grand was that her husband was with her and dragged her out, LOL.

 

Read your own post- the “suckers,” as you put it, that were signing up, were what made the ATA for the possibility to win money. Not that they needed it either, but it was incentive for them to sign up. Take the money away, they stopped shooting or new recruits saw no advantage to shooting registered targets. They can shoot practice at their local club to win nothing. Shooting the same targets, too. Also making friends at the club.

Good for you that you still enjoy the sport, but too bad there’s not more people like you, it would be good for the ATA.

 

I always have to ask, exactly who was it that "took the money away"? Was it a burglar?

When suckers wise up, they stop allowing themselves to be fleeced. Nobody "took" anything, except the suckers who took home their own money.

 

See as much added money at the shoots any more? Or cars being given away for prizes?

Again- you said the suckers took their own money home…lessening participation.

 

Fair enough.

Shoot often, shoot well, have fun. I'll be right there with you, big money or trinkets.

Life is good.