Prediction- OSTA no target requirement will change trapshooting

Discussion in 'Trapshooting Forum - Americantrapshooter.com' started by Jim/Canton, Mar 31, 2020.

  1. Jim/Canton

    Jim/Canton Well-Known Member

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    The decision by Ohio to eliminate this year's target requirement may change trapshooting. I think that when the non-registered guys get wind of this they may start practicing a bit (time permitting of course).

    You may find those protector only shooters coming out.

    And then what.....next year?
     
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  2. Don Cogan

    Don Cogan Mega Poster Founding Member

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    Jim,
    It’s possible that some of the non-registered protector only shooters might shoot some handicaps, but I wouldn’t count on it. Those guys can spend less money per event and shoot for higher returns by sticking to the protector shoots. Plus no annual membership fee and they don’t have to wait around all day to shoot. Handicap would be the only event they would be interested in. I chased the Ohio 60 bird protection circuit for about 10 years. There are some incredible shooters playing that game! But they are smart enough to realize that registered birds just aren’t tough enough to thin down the number of high scores. Lots of high scores leads to smaller payouts per score.
     
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  3. Jim/Canton

    Jim/Canton Well-Known Member

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    Hmmm….well thought out response. But, it is for the week. It is a chance to rub some dirt in the face of some shooters that might not be all that. And there is the PA shoot(s), and Michigan that may do the same.

    And if the ATA had some vision they might discount those memberships.
     
  4. Don Cogan

    Don Cogan Mega Poster Founding Member

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    Jim,
    I’m not at all sure what you mean by “it’s for the weak”. The Outlaws I shot with couldn’t care less about showing up another shooter or shooters. Most of them couldn’t name one person on the ATA AA Team. Didn’t know and didn’t care. They didn’t shoot for averages, belt buckles, ribbons or points. They shot for one reason and one reason only: MONEY. One of my dear friends that is no longer with us told me “if you ain’t shooting for money, what the f@#k are you shooting for”. He was about 83 years old when he told me that.
     
  5. Flyersarebest

    Flyersarebest Moderator Founding Member Forum Leader

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    "If you ain’t shooting for money, what the f@#k are you shooting for?"

    Another one I should be able to "Like" more than once.

    That should be on a T shirt

    I know there are a few of us sitting here reading that line that are just remembering and smiling.

    I started shooting registered targets in 1976 when it was worth it. One of the guys that got me started also took me to my first pigeon shoot. He had an uncle named George Best who was in his mid to late 70's when I met him. George was the winner of the 1960 PA State Double Barrel Race. His picture with the PA State Trophy used to hang inside above the door at Ruffsdale Gun Club.
    He said he used to travel all over the Eastern United States shooting pigeons with three or four of his running buddies when they were younger and he had some stories that were so good they should have been in a book.

    The first time I shot practice with him we were on the porch at Clairton Sportsmen's getting our gear together to go out and he said to me

    Well youngster, I just met ya and don't know if you are good or not but we have to shoot for somthin, so how much do you want to bet on this trap?"

    I feel sorry for the new guys that will never have a chance to have that kind of experience.
     
  6. Flyersarebest

    Flyersarebest Moderator Founding Member Forum Leader

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    Jim: it is for the week
    Don: “it’s for the weak”

    OK, I'm confused
     
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  7. Don Cogan

    Don Cogan Mega Poster Founding Member

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    Haha! I never was been too goodly at this readin’ and writin’ stuff. Blame that one on my old eyes? Jim and I are usually on the same page so I should have known I missed something. My bad.

    It is amazing how many guys in the generation right before mine were just born to gamble. I learned to play gin rummy pretty darn quick after I started shooting because the elders were either shooting or playing gin for money. They liked instant gratification so we didn’t keep score in gin just played for either $1 or $5 per hand.
     
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  8. Flyersarebest

    Flyersarebest Moderator Founding Member Forum Leader

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    I watched nine guys at a pigeon shoot at Great Eastern one day playing 5 card hold em. At the river card there was
    $17,000.00 in the pot.
    Herb Gebbler, RIP, was one of the players. When I asked the guy I went with who some of the other players were he said,

    "Well, I don't know all of them but that guy in the bib overalls is in the oil pipe "Bidness", and you see the guy with the baseball cap and worn flannel shirt that looks like he doesn't have a dollar to his name? That was his helicopter we passed sitting next to the property when we drove in."

    When you walked around outside you could see some of the best pigeon shooters in the East side betting on each bird as they were thrown. They didn't care who was shooting, one time they would bet $20 on the shooter and the next they would bet on the bird. It didn't matter, as long as they could get some action.

    A whole different world that most Trap shooters never had a chance to see or will ever see again. Lucky me!
     
  9. rookieshooter

    rookieshooter Elite Poster Forum Leader

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    And Lucky me. Herb Gebbler was a dear friend of mine along with his GF Bonnie. I first met Herb when he designed some exhaust headers for my race cars back in the early 70's. It was Herb that invited me to go pigeon shooting the first time riding along in his red caddy while listening to NASCAR on the radio while driving to Trap or live bird shoots.

    I spent many lunch hours with Herb at the local dinner talking about racing and shooting, since his shop and mine were only about a quarter mile apart. One day he told me that you must dump as many pellets as you can on the bird before he gets 4 wing beats in.

    One day at his Header shop I watched Herb take a cylinder hone to the end of his Merkle O/U that he used on live birds to get the gun to shoot higher. He placed a piece of paper on the wall and sure enough it shot higher after he was done.

    We mostly talked about getting the most horse power out of our racing engines. It was Herb that made the exhaust headers for Richard Petty's cars.

    I asked him one day why he mostly shot the Flyers in the winter months? He said ''cause the birds fly stronger and are harder to hit, which reduces the ties which equate to more money to the winner''.
    For the ones that did not know Herb, he was truly a one of a kind person and LOVED to carry on a conversation on the money aspect of ATA shooting.or any shoot for that matter.


    Herb would have fitted in with you guys with his staunch ideas about money shoots.
    RIP.
     
  10. BIG PAPA

    BIG PAPA Forum Reporter Forum Reporter Founding Member

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    All of us folks who have been shooting for many years remember the good OLE days. I started shooting ATA birds in 1969. I do not remember whether it was in 1970 or 1971 I broke a 50 straight in the GAH. When I got my check it was around $1300. just for the 50. Do not remember what the 25's paid. A couple of years ago I broke a 98 in one of the caps at the grand. I did not play any money, just shot the targets. I had many of guys tell me that I give up a lot of money that day for just shooting the targets. So I went down and checked out the payoffs. The way I broke the 98 I would have hit every option.My payout would have been almost $600. The cost the play all the options and targets would have been almost $300. The money is gone in register target shooting today. Back in the early 70's we used to say the first target you missed in the GAH cost you $40,000 and a new jeep. Maybe Brad will come on this post and tell you how much his payoff was for willing the preliminary handicap at the grand one year. He can tell you to the penny how much it was.
     
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  11. Family Guy

    Family Guy Ultra Elite Poster Founding Member

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    BIG PAPA....good story. In 1989 my 98 at the GAH got me enough money for 2 years of college and beer money. And I only played three options.

    And then someone made the targets easier.

    neil.jpg
     
  12. patch 2

    patch 2 Active Member

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    I hear that there is no money in shooting. That's true but the only way to get it back is to play the options. I broke a 99 at the Grand this past year, tied with 3 other guys, and just got a measly $9925.00. I wish more people had played the options. I also had a friend tie with another guy in the preliminary handicap he got over $12,000.00. I knew a guy in the 90's that tied with a 99 on Grand day with another guy who hadn't played any options and got over $40,000.00. That was at Vandalia, a lot more shooters. I wish I was shooting in those days. I like to shoot for something, if it's just a cold drink.
     
  13. BIG PAPA

    BIG PAPA Forum Reporter Forum Reporter Founding Member

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    I have been to Sparta every year since the grand moved and I am not a Sparta hater and yep I live in Ohio, in fact only 35 miles from Vandalia. But, IMHO the ATA moved away from it's customers. The consulting firm hired to make a recommendation told them not to move. The survey they took from the shooters told them not to move. The Vandalia location was very accessible from any where. With two of the highest traveled interstate highways right there it did not make any difference where you lived you could get to Vandalia. That is why Vandalia was always called the crossroads of America. There were a vast number of weekend warriors that would come in just to shoot the preliminary and GAH. Yep, they all played all the money options. With less than half of the shooters attending in Sparta, you will never see payoff's like they were in the good ole days. In my opinion, one way to decrease folks playing any of the options is to over price them. Many shooters have a limited source of funds. When it cost you around $200 to shoot a handicap event many folks say NO or might only pick one option. Back in the early 70's I would attend the Wisconsin state shoot. Vic Rienders had a lot of influence with that shoot. The 25's option cost $5 to play. Yep, $1.25 per trap. You guessed it. Everybody played the option. Change can be good, but it is not always the best. You got to keep working on improving. Just like a couple of my dad's old saying were - you cannot push a log chain - and a log chain is no stronger then the weakest link!!!! What do you think? Anybody agree?
     
  14. dr.longshot

    dr.longshot Grudge Match Champion Founding Member Grudge Match Champion Forum Leader

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    I have shot buddies with Don Cogan in southeastern Ohio, and he and I knew the tough guys as we cleaned their clocks, shot a buddy shoot with Steve Stedman and I did not have a partner that night, I was with my newly wed wife that night and I asked him if he wanted to shoot with me, he said yeah, He was shooting a Silver Seitz and I was shooting a K-80 it was a 90 bird buddy with a huge jackpot it was a really foggy night and we were on the last squad, we broke all 90 targets and we bought ourselves and we took home over $4,000+apiece, we both shot Win Super Hdcps 7.5s It was the last shoot and they were going to split the money 40-30-20-10 if it was not broken, Bladensburg, Ohio We Split $5200 . My honeypot shoot was at Camp Troy I took $1,000s from that shoot during the Grand and Ohio State Shoot, it was a 50 bird night shoot, never broke a score under ,49, most were 50s best night I tied my buddy w 50s, I really splurged, bought Cowboy Boots, a Stetson, a lot of primers, shot, Powder for 2 years of shooting, I still have the Boots and Stetson, that Stetson is worth $900 today. Boots have been re-Soled 3 times & in good Condition. Louie Morgan and I broke 99s in Las Vegas Fall Handicap we split $6,000+. Handicap Shooting was My Game.I still get that itch w/my CZ Super Trap Combo w/release trigger. I have so many Handicap Memories and wins all over the USA. I broke the Middle 50

    GB...…………………………………………….DLS
     
  15. 635 G

    635 G Mega Poster

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    Nora Ross, told me, she knew a lot of Kentucky shooters who never shot any ATA targets, and if they wanted to, they could go to the Grand and clean house easily--they're more interested in shooting @ clubs for $
     
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  16. patch 2

    patch 2 Active Member

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    Nora is right, there are a lot of great shooters that never register targets. It is still hard to break a 100 handicap targets, especially when money and pressure is involved.
     
  17. wpt

    wpt Forum Leader Founding Member Forum Leader

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    Pressure to some is Motivation to others ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2020
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  18. patch 2

    patch 2 Active Member

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    Thumbs up. I agree, it sure motivates me !! Money and the competition.
     
  19. BRAD DYSINGER

    BRAD DYSINGER The Philosophist Member Trapshooting Hall of Fame Member State Hall of Fame Founding Member

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    Learning to shoot trap in Ohio was a great advantage for me. Over the years I shot in 38 states and one thing I noticed was that most of those states had at most 3 or 4 really good shooters that I would consider as someone I had to beat to win the shoot. Contrast that with a regular weekend shoot at Jaqua's, or Great Eastern and you had 20 or 30 really good shooters that you had to beat. It would take the same high score, 200 in singles, 98 or 99 in caps, a 100 in doubles to win just the weekend at these clubs so when I shot at the Golden West Grand, or Phoenix, or any state shoot I was used to the Pressure, it took the same scores to wim there that it did at a weekend Ohio shoot, and then by the time August and the Grand rolled around I was usually at the top of my game and ready to go.

    When I moved east for 8 years I noticed that it didn't take as high a score to win a major shoot as it did to win a local shoot in Ohio. I think we had so many good shooters because we had so many shooters period. If you don't believe me go back and read some of those old Trap & Fields from the 70's and 80's. I was far from the only Ohio shooter to enjoy this advantage. Pat McCarthy (before Kim) shot out west and beat several of those states into submission for a few years and if you ask him he will say the same thing I do. Ohio had a lot of All American class shooters that never traveled, and didn't need to back then to shoot a big shoot that other state's shooters never knew who they were but you bet those of us shooting against them every week sure as hell did.

    Big PaPa a few bucks one side of 30K, can't remember the exact amount whether more or less so just say 30K
     

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