POLL Lauren Mueller ATA IL Delegate WSRC Director Conflict? POLL

Discussion in 'Trapshooting Forum - Americantrapshooter.com' started by merlo, Jan 16, 2020.

?

Does Lauren Mueller have a conflict being WSRC Director and ATA Delegate?

  1. Yes

    38 vote(s)
    56.7%
  2. No

    9 vote(s)
    13.4%
  3. No one cares

    14 vote(s)
    20.9%
  4. She should resign delegate position.

    33 vote(s)
    49.3%
  5. She should keep both positions.

    2 vote(s)
    3.0%
  6. She should consult with Lynn Gipson.

    3 vote(s)
    4.5%
  7. She should get the poll results first.

    5 vote(s)
    7.5%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. merlo

    merlo Mega Poster Forum Reporter

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    Lauren Mueller is now the WSRC Director. She is an ATA Delegate for Illinois. Her family runs the Brittny club in Illinois.

    Is this a conflict of interest?

    I report. You decide.
    Merlo out
     
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  2. Wayne Botts

    Wayne Botts Member

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    I've been over to the IL state shoot a couple times (hosted at Brittany). Seems at one point the grounds couldn't handle that size of shoot. Now it seems that attendance is actually dropping... Potentially because they outgrew the place and people had foul experiences. Wouldn't Sparta be a better option to move the state shoot to? But then again, surely she wouldn't be an advocate and present something to the state about moving the shoot from her family's place to her new place of employment.... would she??? Conflict there....

    You report. I decide.
     
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  3. Duper23

    Duper23 New Member

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    The Illinois state shoot should move to Sparta. Illinois should support the ATA and Sparta since its in Illinois. Illinois politics??
     
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  4. Family Guy

    Family Guy Americantrapshooter.com King of Posters Founding Member

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    You Illini can fight that out. I would think you would want a delegate representing your organization not someone under the thumb of the state or Gipson. IMHO. But I remember Gipson saying how much he distrusted a delegate from Illinois. I think the argument was whether the US Open belonged to the ISTA or was under Gipson’s control.

    I am guessing that back then Lauren would have supported her delegate on that issue. How about now?
     
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  5. rickyd

    rickyd Active Member

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    If attendance gets lower at Sparta the grand can move to Brittany. Her family can run it from that venue.
     
  6. wpt

    wpt Forum Leader Founding Member Forum Leader

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    "IF" her position is a IDNR position (State) there is a direct conflict of interest, nothing the State of Illinois or ATA would do at this point in time should surprise anyone ... "CORRUPTION" reins supreme as does the Confusion within the borders of the State which is why they all get along so well ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
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  7. HistoryBuff

    HistoryBuff State HOF Official Historian Member State Hall of Fame Founding Member Forum Leader

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    Here is the ATA's Conflict of Interest Policy from 2008.
    It may have been updated or amended since that time.

    Scan0143.jpg
    Scan0144.jpg
    Scan0145.jpg
     
  8. Smithy

    Smithy Elite Poster Founding Member

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    Only a truly honest org would have such a clause. Do you think the ATA needs outside advisors on this one?
     
  9. Warren61

    Warren61 Active Member

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    Do you think they ran this by the Martins first?
     
  10. wpt

    wpt Forum Leader Founding Member Forum Leader

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    I hope the Lady does well no matter who she is employed by, would take a miracle to turn the place around being as for the most part attendance and business has been established over the past 14 years and has not been anything to write home about ...
    The ATA needs a Professional Company Organizer to take control and make it what it should be, which will never happen at the WSRC not because of the facility, but because of the location ... They could cut off all of the paid positions on the EC, ED and work with the BOD or a select few of them to make things right ... They might even get some of those who walked away to come back and play again ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
  11. HistoryBuff

    HistoryBuff State HOF Official Historian Member State Hall of Fame Founding Member Forum Leader

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    Matthew 6:24
     
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  12. The Phantom

    The Phantom Village Idiot Village Idiot Forum Leader

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    I'm not nit picking, but she is not a man.

    She knew she was an ATA Delegate when she took the salaried position with The State of Illinois. If her moral compass allowed her to take the job, she is either lacking in integrity, or genuinely doesn't see any ethical conflict.

    Here's a little challenge. Everybody go to the State of Illinois web site for WSRC and scroll down to the Calendar of Events at the bottom of that page. Enlarge it and then go through the calendar month-by-month. Count up the actual number of events that have already been scheduled by major shooting organizations. Keep that info. Go back in October and go over the calendar again and you will be able to see if the new director has been able to make significant additions to the Events Calendar. That is the only way to assess her performance on an annual basis. Ironically, NOTHING the new director can or will do at her new job will have any significant effect on the success or failure of the ATA.
     
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  13. STaT mAn STaN

    STaT mAn STaN Well-Known Member

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    Mathew 6:24 no man can serve two masters.

    Not to be confused with Statman 2:1 - - odds she doesn’t resign.

    cause Gipson is the master. Jmho
     
  14. The Phantom

    The Phantom Village Idiot Village Idiot Forum Leader

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    Gipson might be in bed with the State of Illinois, but he's not "on top."
     
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  15. Clipperite

    Clipperite Active Member

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    Where is the poster that was yapping about the new transparency? How is that working?
     
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  16. Live Oak

    Live Oak Well-Known Member

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    What is the chance she was hired because of the conflict? (if there is one)
     
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  17. The Phantom

    The Phantom Village Idiot Village Idiot Forum Leader

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    But WHY would the State of Illinois do that? What could they possibly gain?

    Is there anybody here who knows the answer to Live Oak's question? Is there anybody here who knows the answer to my questions.
     
  18. wpt

    wpt Forum Leader Founding Member Forum Leader

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    This is Illinois (State of Confusion) we are talking about: Think about that think about them doing anything by the book ... They write their own book and do things the way they want,like it or not very much like the new and not so improved ATA ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
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  19. Family Guy

    Family Guy Americantrapshooter.com King of Posters Founding Member

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    I can see the IDNR heavyweights wanting to know why the lack of attendance. We have those answers but the IDNR might not be so sure.

    Gipson has at least a temporary direction to point a finger. He can say I meant we could make this place thrive. I didn’t say you guys can do it. The previous picks were from the IDNR.

    Now he has his pick. That gives them a few more years maybe. A few more free guns. Another land deal and....who knows? Maybe they have 4,500 in the handicap.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2020
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  20. wpt

    wpt Forum Leader Founding Member Forum Leader

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    I hope the Lady does well no matter who she is employed by, would take a miracle to turn the place around being as for the most part attendance and business has been established over the past 14 years and has not been anything to write home about ...
    The ATA needs a Professional Company Organizer to take control and make it what it should be, which will never happen at the WSRC not because of the facility, but because of the location ... They could cut off all of the paid positions on the EC, ED and work with the BOD or a select few of them to make things right ... They might even get some of those who walked away to come back and play again ... WPT ... (YAC) ... (Reposted )

    They are not going to get 4500 shooters on their best day, the business or lack of has been established over 14 years ... There are not 4500 that give a crap about the grand anymore , they all go to the Cardinal Center ( New and improved Grand ) ... Sad to say but the lady will be a pawn and she will get blamed for the lack of business even before her time ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
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  21. The Phantom

    The Phantom Village Idiot Village Idiot Forum Leader

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    I don't quite understand. When you say, "now he has his pick," is it a known fact that Gipson was the one who made the selection of the lady to fill a State of Illinois job slot? Does anybody know how many candidates applied for the job? Was Gipson allowed to sit in on the interview process? The ATA is not the only organization who has a dog in this fight. SASS has three times as many members as the ATA and is growing by leaps and bounds. One of their BIG annual events is a mainstay at WSRC. Were they allowed to have a representative sit in on the interviews?

    It is hard for me to believe that her hiring is part of a grand conspiracy. She can't do anything to reverse the years of NEGATIVE bullshit the ATA has been spewing. If anything, she should be playing up to the skeeters, sporters, and 6-Gun enthusiasts. They are the ones with the money and the integrity. ATA is dying. Why would the state keep hanging its hat on a lost cause?

    The lady is a lot more important to the State of Illinois than she is to the ATA. The State is responsible, by charter, to its taxpayers, not some decrepit, worn out organization.
     
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  22. Union Strong

    Union Strong Well-Known Member

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    How many campsites does the ATA have?
    How long is the trap line?
    Who else has a HOF building there?
    What org has the same amount of vendors?

    If the ATA leaves there will nothing but sewer lines. If the ATA cant bring more they won’t keep the place open for pistol shooters.
     
  23. The Phantom

    The Phantom Village Idiot Village Idiot Forum Leader

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  24. Union Strong

    Union Strong Well-Known Member

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    The ATA has the only skin in the game that matters.
     
  25. The Phantom

    The Phantom Village Idiot Village Idiot Forum Leader

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    The U.S. Open lasts 6 days.
    AIM lasts 7 days
    The Grand lasts 11 days.
    That's 24 days of scheduled ATA events for calendar years 2020.

    That leaves 341 days for the year 2020 that the ATA is NOT doing anything to support the State of Illinois.

    The THOF Building does not belong to the ATA. Let me repeat that. The THOF Building does not belong to the ATA. It is open to legal interpretation as to whether or not THOF even owns the contents of the building.

    The ATA LEASES the land and equipment used in the events mentioned above. If Illinois pulls the plug, THE ATA IS HOMELESS!!!!!

    The ATA not only doesn't have any skin in the game that "matters," it doesn't have any skin in the game, at all.


    Please be kind enough to tell us how 24 days per year of ATA revenues can amount to anything more than a pinch of shit against the huge losses amassed by the World Shooting and Recreational Complex over the last 10 years.
     
  26. Union Strong

    Union Strong Well-Known Member

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    That is the point. Everyone else has even less.
     
  27. The Phantom

    The Phantom Village Idiot Village Idiot Forum Leader

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    If that's the case, the WSRC doesn't even need a manager. You have just convinced me that the young lady and the ATA are not co-conspirators in any mysterious, diabolical trapshooting scheme.

    Of course, you are absolutely and completely WRONG when you say, "Everyone has less." Several other nationally recognized shooting organizations together had 164 (that's one HUNDRED and sixty four) days spoken for and dedicated to SCHEDULED EVENTS at the WSRC in 2019. Names like SASS, USPSA, TACTICAL-2 GUN, NCSSA COLLEGIATE, NSTR SHRINERS, SCSA to name a few. They are the Big Hitters. They are the money players, not the ATA.

    I've said it before and I'll say it again, without the"Big Hitters," the ATA would be sucking hind teat.

    You might want to start paying attention to the WSRC Calendar of Scheduled Events posted on the IDNR web site. So far this year, the calendar almost looks empty. Only one or two of the Big Hitters from last year have posted events for CY 2020. Have they decided that WSRC is a shit hole and that they can find better accommodations elsewhere? I don't know. I keep a lookout on the Park Closures page of the IDNR website and as of 1/17/2020, WSRC is NOT scheduled for closure.

    Oh, all that "campsites" and "vendors" boilerplate doesn't mean a thing to Illinois. The campsite matter is part of a published lease agreement which would go up in smoke the minute IDNR pulled the plug. Vendors are there because they need to make money to buy food and clothes, just like everybody else.

    Maybe it's time to just start facing the fact that in the grander scheme of things, the ATA doesn't mean anything anymore.
     
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  28. wpt

    wpt Forum Leader Founding Member Forum Leader

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    The Phantom says :

    The ATA LEASES the land and equipment used in the events mentioned above. If Illinois pulls the plug, THE ATA IS HOMELESS!!!!!

    The last we heard about the TRAPS is they were owned (purchased ) by the ATA, if that changed it was not divulged to the membership who's money paid for same with money that was collected on a per event basis ($1.00 per event ) over the course of time ... That money was going to be collected for the ATA members to have a new Home Grounds and not be renters ... The purchase happened prior to the move from Vandalia to Sparta so its old news ...
    Fact is : The ATA can care less about what the members want and they have not acted in any way in the best interest of the ATA and the Membership of for many years ... The ATA has converted to being a self serving organization for the ED, EC and many on the BOD to get their piece of the "Cash Cow" ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
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  29. Union Strong

    Union Strong Well-Known Member

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    Phantom. Which org spends more money at the WSRC than the ATA? Which org has more attending? Which org uses the most land? Please show me those numbers. I am not saying you don’t have that.
     
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  30. HistoryBuff

    HistoryBuff State HOF Official Historian Member State Hall of Fame Founding Member Forum Leader

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    It's very likely Delegate Mueller was recommended by the ATA Executive Director, just as Dean Townsend, Chairman of the Central Handicap Committee was the ATA's choice back in 2015.

    E.D. Gipson provided the IDNR management with several reasons for their support of Townsend, the most significant, "a high degree of instant acceptance and confidence in the choice." Meaning acceptance by the State, shooting industry & vendors and presumably by the entire ATA membership. There was also the thought that a greater potential for the complex would happen if Mr. Townsend was selected as Executive Director.

    E. D. Gipson has had pretty close relationships with the IDNR top brass which would include Monica Brackman who often received suggestions and guidance from Mr. Gipson and was thankful for it. He maintains regular communications and you can trust that he will be providing guidance to Ms. Mueller.

    The ATA has put some of its money to work at the WSRC also, this since the first GAH in 2006. If I was given correct information by a past ATA Prez, the first year they paid 10s of thousands of dollars for such things as a communications tower that reached the campgrounds, gifted the old people wagons used at Vandalia and water coolers and ice during the GAH. The ATA has also provided the labor and paint for the trap houses and signage.

    Perhaps one of our astute Board of Directors might request a spreadsheet showing the ATA's expense each year for their support at the Complex. I would think that should be part of the annual report.

    In 2017, Ms. Brackman was paid $69,300. Hopefully, WSRC E.D. Mueller negotiated wage and other compensation to include incentive bonuses comparable to the ATA's E.D. package.

    HB
     
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  31. Flyersarebest

    Flyersarebest Moderator Founding Member Forum Leader

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    "bonuses comparable to the ATA's E.D. package."

    Wonder if she has a realtor license. Ya never know when a building will come up for sale somewhere in the area.
     
  32. The Phantom

    The Phantom Village Idiot Village Idiot Forum Leader

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    Thank you. Before I go into any detail, I would request that you do just a little research. First, go to the ATA Website. Then go to the Single Action Shooting Society website. Please compare to two sites and determine which one is the most user friendly, the most inviting, the most friendly, and the most forward thinking. Then please go to the Wikipedia listing about The Amateur Trapshooting Association. Then go to the Wikipedia listing for the the Single Action Shooting Society(S.A.S.S.).

    Keep in mind that the S.A.S.S., according to a direct quote from on of their Regional Administrators, has approximately 90,000 members. They are NOT all active, but they maintain their memberships. The ATA has anywhere form 25,000 to 29,000 members. I don't know whether or not it is known how many are active.

    Please let me know when you have looked over the information that I requested that you read.
     
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  33. The Phantom

    The Phantom Village Idiot Village Idiot Forum Leader

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    Thank you. As you know the placements of Mr. Townsend and Ms. Brackman in their respective roles as Dorector at WSRC were the result of political appointments. Because of new hiring guidelines put in place in October of 2019 by the State of Illinois, the position of Director of WSRC became a state "coded" slot. Equal Opportunity hiring practices are the law. I'm quite sure that Ms. Mueller had to present a resume and it would only make good sense that she show as one of her references, the ED of ATA. Hopefully, she was able to include other references.

    One of the points I hoped to make in my earlier post was the the role of Director of WSRC was one that was subject to accountability. I believe there would have been a "Job Description" that became a part of the documents in Ms. Mueller's hiring package. In view of the fact that there at least 7 other nationally recognized shooting/hunting/field trials organizations, it should be more than abundantly obvious that Ms. Mueller's responsibilities would include knowing about and being able to immediately respond to any and all issues of ALL OF HER CLIENTELE, not just the ATA.

    It is my opinion that the State of Illinois hired a native Illinoisan to in effect begin to distance itself of the ATA. When and if the time comes when the ATA and The State of Illinois might want to part company, an inbred relationship would in no way benefit the State, who I might add is the owner of the land, the buildings, the state improvements as well as ALL of the ATA LEASE HELD improvements.

    Very few people who come to this website actually go to the WSRC. If they do, it is for an ATA event. As I said earlier, of the 365 days in the WSRC Calendar Year, the ATA will use just 24 days for all of 2020. The other nationally recognized organizations, though I can not predict what will happen in 2020 because, to date, there are only limited entries for them on the IDNR WSRC Calendar of Events, used no less than 160 days(7 times more days than ATA) in Calendar Year 2019. As far as I know, nobody here has ever been to an S.A.S.S event. Nobody here knows how many people attend other events at WSRC. Regardless of the numbers, Ms. Mueller is directly responsible for and directly accountable to EVERY person who ever enters the grounds. To make a small point, Mr. Gipson does NOT tell Ms. Mueller what to do.
     
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  34. Union Strong

    Union Strong Well-Known Member

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    And how do you know he has not told her what to do? Laughable.

    and then you say regardless of the numbers. Nope, it is about the numbers.
     
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  35. Union Strong

    Union Strong Well-Known Member

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    You can be sure a Illinois is not going to stand for that place being supported by any type pistol shooter.
     
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  36. wpt

    wpt Forum Leader Founding Member Forum Leader

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    The ATA at one time had many people convinced they were the only game in town because of the grand, now there is a some thing or other grand almost every week end someplace ... I would find it very difficult to believe that Lynn (the Talking Head ) Gipson's requests, suggestions or stated desires would not carry a considerable amount of weight with the Director regardless of who his/ her Boss or who she reports to would be ... The ATA had the State of Illinois thinking that over 100,000 shooters attended or visited the facility during the grand and we all know that was grossly over stated ... They came and saw Vandalia crammed full of people with their own eyes which probably impressed the living shit out of them because they ain't never seen so many people in one place at any one time ... Then reality struck and they have not had a crowd since even on the day of the Big Daddy of events "the grand American" ... To be honest it is not my concern but it is my opinion that Gipson will pull a lot of weight and get his wishes granted or Ms. Mueller will be looking for a new job (post haste) ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
  37. The Phantom

    The Phantom Village Idiot Village Idiot Forum Leader

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    I have to ask this question : what wish could Gipson ever wish for that he hasn't already been granted? She works for the STATE of Illinois. The State if Illinois strokes her paychecks. She is loyal to the Pay Master. If Gipson told her to do something that was out side of her job description and she told him to jam it up his ass, he wouldn't have a leg to stand on. All she would have to do is start yelling SEXUAL Discrimination and she'd have the whole Department of Justice on the ATA like ugly on ape.

    Look at it like this...she's the female firefighter in the firehouse. Gipson's house is on fire. She'll put out the fire, but she ain't gonna kiss his ass. And if somebody else's house is on fire, she's not gonna drop everything just to go back and help him. She ain't Linda Carter.
     
  38. HistoryBuff

    HistoryBuff State HOF Official Historian Member State Hall of Fame Founding Member Forum Leader

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    No doubt there is a job description for the E. D. position at the WS&R Complex. Ms. Mueller's background will be a great help to her but I don't know that the Illinois DNR really sees it necessary. They expect more of a facilitator.

    In March 2017, Ms. Brackman was tasked with interviewing candidates for the position of 1. Trap & Skeet; 2. Sporting Clays and/or 3. Shotgun Shooting Sports Manager.

    Admittedly, she know very little about the shooting sports and was hired due to her publicity background. So, how was she able to conduct interviews?

    A select group of industry and shooting representatives were chosen to assist. Like, Federal, Krieghoff, White Flyer and Mr. Gipson from the ATA and Mr. Hampton from the NSSA-NSCA to name a few.

    Here's the job description provided to the gentleman who resigned from the WSRC Steering Committee so he didn't have a conflict when applying for the position to manage all the shotgun venues.

    JOB DESCRIPTION - SHOTGUN SHOOTING SPORTS MANAGER.jpg

     
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  39. The Phantom

    The Phantom Village Idiot Village Idiot Forum Leader

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    History Buff,

    Thank you for all you do! The following remarks and questions are NOT directed to you. It seems to me that there should be other members who have enough intellectual honesty and energy to search out the answers to the questions I have listed below and have the courtesy to report back with the information they have found. Lots of people here have expressed a great deal of interest in knowing all about the role Ms. Mueller will play at the WSRC. It appears that many think she will be Mr. Gipson's "Girl Friday," or his glorified "gopher." Mr. Gipson's organization pays for the privilege of having a "facility manager" via the annual rents paid as stipulated in the latest lease agreement. Ms. Mueller is in the service industry, she's not a chain gang slave.

    The State of Illinois' hiring practices were updated in October of 2019. The Director of WSRC position is a state "coded" slot.

    When did Ms. Mueller interview for the position?
    When did she accept the position?
    Who were the interviewers?
    How many candidates applied for the position?
    What is Ms. Mueller's annual salary?

    For those who may have missed it, there is no # 11 in the list of job responsibilites.
     
  40. Union Strong

    Union Strong Well-Known Member

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    I was thinking you could do some legwork for questions you asked.
     
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  41. Fargo2

    Fargo2 Well-Known Member

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    The IDNR was sold the idea that they would have crowds bigger than Vandalia. So they built bigger than Vandalia.
     
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  42. HistoryBuff

    HistoryBuff State HOF Official Historian Member State Hall of Fame Founding Member Forum Leader

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    Understood Phantom. Just trying to provide the little information I have to help us formulate some assumed answers to the questions.

    IMO, Ms. Mueller will do her new job well and make her own decisions after receiving input from her sources. Her knowledge of the sport is a huge plus that will greatly shorten the learning curve timeline.

    Answers to many of the questions posed by you and others can be obtained with a simple online FOIA request to the IDNR.

    https://www.dnr.illinois.gov/FOIA/P...uralResourcesFOIARequestForPublicRecords.aspx

    If I wasn't so busy with improvements on my new home, I would take a few minutes and request the answers myself.

    HB
     
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  43. Family Guy

    Family Guy Americantrapshooter.com King of Posters Founding Member

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    Update Ms Mueller has resigned her position as ATA Delegate from the State of Illinois. Best of luck to her.
     

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