ATA almost without a home? Again? Yikes!

Discussion in 'Trapshooting Forum - Americantrapshooter.com' started by Hobie18, Sep 12, 2020.

  1. Hobie18

    Hobie18 New Member

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    The IDNR doesn’t have the ATA listed on the schedule of events. Who is in charge?

    The CC isn’t courting Gipson and his clan. No news from ATA President Shaw. Vendors make plans a year in advance. People schedule vacations.
     
  2. wpt

    wpt Forum Leader Founding Member Forum Leader

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    The ATA as renters are at the Mercy of their landlord, this being the State of Illinois who is and has been in dire straights financially for quite some time ... The Honorable Governor Pritzger profess's to have all of the answers with a deluge of tax increases that once put on paper only increase their problems and make the situation even worse as soon as it , if it is signed and accepted ... The State of Illinois not long ago signed and accepted a Budget that was 6 Billion short of the annual budget needed for operations and to stay even ... The Funding for IDNR, recreational parks, centers, and activities are not even being addressed based on the States Web site ... This would come as no surprise taking everything into consideration, plus the additional Corona Virus eliminating a major part of most activities locally and regionally ...
    The ATA does not keep the Membership advised as to what is happening or if anything at all is happening for future shoots, one would have to hope they communicate better with their vendor customers for the sake of business because they are probably the biggest draw there is at the bigger shoots ... Time will tell and then we will all know in the mean time be patient and pray ... There is always Linn Creek in case they bull doze the WSRC in Sparta, Cardinal Center seems to be doing quite well without having to Baby sit all of the EC, BOD, and ED if they decide to Host the Shoot known as the grand and a few others ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
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  3. Palos shooter

    Palos shooter Well-Known Member Founding Member

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    I think that maybe that PULL 2012 can purchase the Sparta complex from the State of Illinois for pennies on the dollar.
    Then they can turn around and sell the complex to the ATA .The ATA could finally own their own home grounds.
    I don’t think the Governor would consider Sparta as a asset and he would be happy to get rid of it.The people in the surrounding area will profit from the place being open as it brings millions of dollars into their economy.
     
  4. Smithy

    Smithy Elite Poster Founding Member

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    Palos

    I have never heard of a State selling a State Park to the lowest bidder. Do you think that happens often?
     
  5. Palos shooter

    Palos shooter Well-Known Member Founding Member

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    As you know they sold the Chicago skyway and all the parking garages in Chicago.They are thinking about selling OHare airport to pay the bills.Anything can happen in Illinois's.They also bulldozed Megs field airport.
     
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  6. wpt

    wpt Forum Leader Founding Member Forum Leader

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    The WSRC and ATA cannot draw a crowd because of the location and lacking of amenity's in the general area that shooters have gotten used to over the years ... If it wasn't for WalMart there would be nothing in Sparta that would be considered an attraction ... State Parks do not get sold but this is Illinois we are talking about so anything is possible though not probable ... Sparta still has out standing debt since the bonds were purchased for their share of the initial investment of said facility ... The attendance at that facility had been established and got to be consistent at a very reduced amount because of the location which was not ideal from the start and the ATA was forewarned of that before the move ... To invest in something that has already been established as a loser would really make the ATA, ED, EC, and BOD look like a bunch of total Idiots, which has already been established also ... Time to move on and let the dead horse die in peace ... The only Fantastic Direction established once in Sparta is the road out of town ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
  7. Smithy

    Smithy Elite Poster Founding Member

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    Chicago can sell things it owns to the highest bidder. They have never given anything away to a friend of the city.

    Federal funds went into that state park.

    Any sale of that property would go to the highest bidder. The ATA doesn’t even own the ATA HOF building. According to an attorney here, the ATA HOF might not own the contents.

    Do you really think the ATA can afford to buy all that property? Do you think they can afford to maintain i? It would go to the highest bidder. Plus funds that would go back to the feds.

    And I don’t give a ass who owns it. It is still in the gun hate state!
     
  8. wpt

    wpt Forum Leader Founding Member Forum Leader

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    The WSRC cost 3.2 Million annually to manage, maintain, and operate (this was a few years ago, probably more now ) ... The facility has generated on the average of 1.2 - 1.5 million annually so it adds to the States growing deficit on an annual basis in the amount of 1.8 to 2.2 million ... The State of Illinois was 6 Billion dollars up side down in passing the latest budget, plus the over 23 (?) million in the rears from years gone by ... The WSRC being the magnificent example of a shooting facility it is was constructed in a location that does not and will never warrant the amount of business needed to break even let alone become a profitable business venture ... This has proven to be true over the past 15 years of operation and is not going to change unless they can pick it up and move it to a more desirable location ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

    In reality anything is possible at this point, you would think the ATA would notify the customers (shooters/members) or maybe not ...
    Many of the people ( shooters ) I know make plans way in advance for certain shoots, probably in most cases not subject to change ... The Vendors have an ABSOLUTE right to know what is happening when and where ...
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2020
  9. 635 G

    635 G Mega Poster

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    Put a fork in Sparta--its done, if the EC keeps up the same crap the ATA, may be done too !!!

    And honestly, if you're not chasing All American points--who needs to shoot registered targets
     
  10. Fargo2

    Fargo2 Well-Known Member

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    If the handicap system worked there would be more money.
     
  11. wpt

    wpt Forum Leader Founding Member Forum Leader

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    The handicap system is one thing but the way the Association has become a piggy bank (cash Cow) for those Good'Ol'Boys who get paid to represent the shooter and there is no representation or promotion ... They travel to shoots they would probably not attend if they had to pay for it out of pocket, their expenses are paid and they demand being treated like they are Rock stars and be coddled instead of trap shooters while they play the Big Shot ... Until the ATA Membership forces the ED, EC, and some of the BOD back to reality and quit paying their expenses the Handicap system is meaningless ... The president gets a new gun he would probably not get if he had to pay for it out of pocket besides an expense check for $20,000 just for being a nice guy (not) ... There is a lot more wrong with the ATA than the Handicap system, that is for sure ... If they only realized how little respect the majority of the Membership has for them they would probably never show their faces again, but then again they think they deserve it ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
  12. BRAD DYSINGER

    BRAD DYSINGER State HOF Member Trapshooting Hall of Fame Member State Hall of Fame Founding Member

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    The ATA and the Democrat party are very similar animals. A lot of stuff to fix and not just one thing will do the job.
     
  13. Dave Berlet

    Dave Berlet State HOF Member Trapshooting Hall of Fame Member State Hall of Fame Founding Member

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    Yesterday at the meat shoot at Cloverdale, Ohio a 2trap club there were 77 entries in their 50 target program. The area meat shoots are doing well averaging 14 to 20 squads. The HOF came up in conversation and there is a lot of concern as to what is going to happen to the contents since the contract seems to have been broken by the state of Illinois. It seems like there are many shooters concerned and I believe rightfully so. I don't know for sure, but what about needing our items removed from the building that we(the members) paid for but is owned by the state within 90 days of one of the parties not being able to honor the contract?

    Dave Berlet
     
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  14. Dave Berlet

    Dave Berlet State HOF Member Trapshooting Hall of Fame Member State Hall of Fame Founding Member

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    Fargo the handicap system CAN NOT work if it only go's one way. If you have mandatory earned yardage you need to have mandatory reductions before the system has a chance to function with any possibility of being a working system.

    Just because some one earned their way to the 27yd line doesn't mean that they should have the right to stay there for the rest of their life. In the 2020 season I was reduced to the 25yd line and I was not able to earn my way back to the 27yd line. For over 50 consecutive years starting in 1965 I have been on the 27yd line for at least part of every year until this year, but I didn't feel like I should prostitute our handicap system by refusing a reduction. My feelings are that if you can be forced to move back then you should be moved forward in the same manner.

    Dave Berlet
     
  15. History Seeker

    History Seeker A NoBody Official Historian Founding Member

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    Dave and Brad,

    What a damned mess they have created !

    And people ask me why I make my donations to the OHIO THOF ???

    I just tell them that the Museum at CC is open to display the HISTORY a LOT more often to the shooters, than the National THOF can ever think of.

    Cheers to Betty Peterson, and the trustees of this fine OHIO Museum !

    And I highly believe that this Museum will be taken care of in the distant future, for all to see.

    When the National THOF museum was in Vandalia, and under the daily direction of Tami Daniel, and Kenny Ray Estes, it was taken care of completely.

    They were a team that took care of everything from changing light bulbs, to preserving the items within the building !

    Today is anyone's guess as to what is going on with that place in Sparta.

    All I do know is, it is a damned shame.
     
  16. Roger Coveleskie

    Roger Coveleskie State HOF Member State Hall of Fame Founding Member

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    I wonder if the contents of the HOF building are part of the collateral on the loan? Roger C.
     
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  17. 635 G

    635 G Mega Poster

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    Sure hope Homer Clarke's gun doesn't go to an Illinois , going out of business sale-he won two World Live Bird Championships, with that gun--alot of history to that gun, design & build--per Dennis DeVault 's discussion with Homer Clarke
     
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  18. Brad M

    Brad M Member

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    Just an FYI. The hall of fame was open Saturday and Sunday this past week. The gentleman in charge of day to day stuff is there quite a bit. I personally seen punkin flock, you can actually see her through the window when they are not open. I think (her) it’s a little creepy(just my opinion). She is as safe as she can be on a state controlled site. Grounds were well maintained.
     
  19. Dustin Sacksteder

    Dustin Sacksteder Active Member

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    now brad, why you gotta come rain on these boys' parade? lol
     
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  20. BRAD DYSINGER

    BRAD DYSINGER State HOF Member Trapshooting Hall of Fame Member State Hall of Fame Founding Member

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    What was the occasion for the HOF being open, was an ATA shoot going on?
     
  21. Dave Berlet

    Dave Berlet State HOF Member Trapshooting Hall of Fame Member State Hall of Fame Founding Member

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    Did anyone visit the HOF while it was supposedly open?

    Dave Berlet
     
  22. wpt

    wpt Forum Leader Founding Member Forum Leader

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    If by chance the ATA does go back to the WSRC in Sparta for additional shoots it is only a matter of time before they will be confronted with more and more problems as the Financial situation continues to get worse for the State of Illinois ... This situation has been building over the past 25 + years in the State and it is finally coming to a head, they have no place to go or anyone to turn to for assistance or help in any way ... The State of Illinois's salvation has always been to raise the taxes so now they are practically to their limits by the same laws and limitations they created ... The ATA means nothing to the Political Hacks in Illinois if it does not produce and generate income for the State ... The WSRC has added over 23 + million dollars to the States deficit in the past 15 years so it becomes more of a liability than asset every year ... I truly wish them all the best but it is what it is and I do not see them having a way or reason to change that ... Good Luck ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
  23. Flyersarebest

    Flyersarebest Moderator Founding Member Forum Leader

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    "She is as safe as she can be on a state controlled site."

    The holding of the "grand" this year was safe on state controlled grounds too. Now, THERE is something to lol about.
     
  24. HistoryBuff

    HistoryBuff State HOF Official Historian Member State Hall of Fame Founding Member Forum Leader

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    According to the Financial Statement (audit), the brokerage account was used as collateral.

    2019 THOF Audit Notes Secured byBrokerage Acct..jpg
     
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  25. Brad M

    Brad M Member

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    Don’t know if any reason. I think they are doing regular hours like before. I haven’t been inside in a while. I think I’ve seen everything that’s displayed 3 or 4 times. I only usually pop in during the grand. I’m quite fond of the Olympic medals and the really long gun (can’t quite remember whose it is).
     
  26. Brad M

    Brad M Member

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    Really? I didn’t think the state of Missouri owned MTA? Or am I missing a joke.
     
  27. Flyersarebest

    Flyersarebest Moderator Founding Member Forum Leader

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    You missed it
     
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  28. Sparta Sid

    Sparta Sid Active Member

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    “If by chance?” There is more than a small chance. But, if it doesn’t Missouri will need to make some upgrades. I wouldn’t be surprised to see a shot screen, buildings, and some asphalt put down.

    Screens would make the fields fair. There is plenty room for a HOF, not that I care. I might even go.

    Ohio had their chance to have a big shoot.
     
  29. History Seeker

    History Seeker A NoBody Official Historian Founding Member

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    I just went to the THOF website and could find no information about hours, or when the place is open.

    Also, the webmaster better get busy and put up some pictures of the NEW and improved Museum. They still have the inside Vandalia pictures on the site and I must admit from what I have seen, items were displayed a lot nicer than what they are now.
     
  30. Flyersarebest

    Flyersarebest Moderator Founding Member Forum Leader

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    So the reason you didn’t attend the “ grand” this year, even though it was in your backyard, was because the fields aren’t fair?
    That excuse is as good as any I guess.

    Ohio allowed shooting. MO allowed shooting. MO attendance for the “grand”SUCKED. Ohio attendance for the classic was UP.

    I fixed your last sentence.

    Ohio HAD a big shoot.
     
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  31. Dustin Sacksteder

    Dustin Sacksteder Active Member

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    Did Ohio do anything when they decided to move the grand? I've heard they just twiddled their fingers...Just what I heard.
     
  32. Flyersarebest

    Flyersarebest Moderator Founding Member Forum Leader

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    Dustin, well bless your heart.

    You can always tell the rookies. Even their attempts at trolling are second rate. LMAO
     
  33. HistoryBuff

    HistoryBuff State HOF Official Historian Member State Hall of Fame Founding Member Forum Leader

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    That's what many would like everyone to believe.

    However, there were a few potential locations offered, some viable, some not so much, but it appeared that the ATA leadership was not interested in providing Board of Directors with details of offers for cheap or even free land.

    The association's minutes speak of those locations. One offer was 1000 acres in Montgomery County. Another huge chunk of land was in the eastern part of the State and if I got the true story, it was investigated by either the ATA President or member of the E.C. I don't recall ever seeing any minutes identifying this potential location.

    Just think, back in the late 1960s and early 70's, the ATA was offered the Linn Creek site, 600 acres and a 2 mile trapline, eventually turning down Mr. Wm. Fienup's generous gift. This is also supported in the ATA minutes if anyone doubts it.

    Enjoy Our History !
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2020
  34. Flyersarebest

    Flyersarebest Moderator Founding Member Forum Leader

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    There ya go dustin,

    So endith the lesson

    And BTW, why don't you tell us where you "heard" that little fairy tale.
     
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  35. History Seeker

    History Seeker A NoBody Official Historian Founding Member

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    Heck, And all along I was told it was the Membership that was on a "Need to know Basis".

    The leaders wouldn't even share this information with the BOD either.

    So folks, we are not alone when it comes to NO information.
     
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