A question for Brad Dysinger

Brad, a while back you said that you believe un-singles are better for one eyed shooters.

I would appreciate knowing the reason(s) why ?

Thank you.

 

An unsingle has less area in front of your eye than a rib attached right too the barrel. You will have a clearer view of the target just a little faster. I've always liked a narrow tapered rib to point my way to the bird and an unsingle will help a one eyed shooter do that. You will still have to be vary conscious of canting your gun but getting your eye up higher should help.

Think of the difference of pointing your finger at something or pointing your fist. Both are attached to your arm but you are much more precise with the finger. With just the rib of an unsingle your margin for error goes down.

 

Excellent reply. A fellow could come around here for a long time an never get a better instructional response that the one Mr. Dysinger just posted. No gobbledegook, no BS, just a strong answer.

 

I would need a graph to show that

 

This guy is good !!! All are excellent remarks , I tried to instill these into the kids when coaching.

 

I tried an unsingle and could not adapt to it for what ever reason, was never sure if I was on or off the target ... I always shot top singles or Model 12's before the unsingle, the only advantage I saw was the reduced recoil and less barrel jump with the unsingle ... Sold that MX-2000 unsingle and bought another MX-2000/8 with the top single which I liked much better ... I sold the MX-2000/8, have a TMX and my Model 12's to hold me over ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

wpt I think any of us two eyed Model 12 guys are more gun pointers than anything else. I couldn't shoot my 680 unsingle or my 682 unsingle with any consistency. I'd find myself shooting off the barrel every so often and it was just to low on my eye. I'd do it on quarter angles the most. I don't do that with an over under at all so the only difference I can see is the small rib sighting plain where the top barrel is supposed to be. The recoil was better but the misses negated that for me.

I also think that someone like me that grew up hunting birds and then became a target shooter is more instinct shooting than someone who starts on trap. Leo wasn't a hunter before he started shooting trap and always had a harder time in bad wind than I did because he was so precise. It helped him when the targets went to 2 hole though. He also had a hard time with live pigeons. Leo also didn't shoot an unsingle and I think that was because he started with an 1100. I always thought that coming to trap from a hunting background was a great advantage for me.

 

It's been written many times over the course of our history that "shooting over the trap(s)" was designed to improve and/or maintain the proficiency of hunters.

I believe that's precisely why the original angle settings for trap rules for inanimate targets were 45° on both left and right of the center stake, with an additional 20° beyond the extreme left and right angle still considered a legal target.

Here are the angles from the 1924 ATA rule book. Look at what the old-time ATA and World record holders shot at.

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HB

 

Brad, not trying to threadjack but I would assume same holds true for those that use a dot over their non dominate eye to shoot both eyes open but in actuality it would be closer to 1 eye open.

 

NDtrap15 I'm not sure about the dot thing, I never really gave it much thought. I'd think you could be right but then again if you have both eyes open it might not be, I just don't know but I will think on it. It's an interesting thought.

 

I appreciate any insight. I don't have an overwhelming amount of experience. I use the dot as the person that I took lessons from about 7 years ago suggested it and it seemed to work for me....

 

NDtrap13,

Do you use a top single or an un-single for caps and singles ?

Thanks

 

I use an Un-Single.

 

Brad, I have a terrible canting problem that i have been unable to solve on a regular basis. 73 years experience so think i should know better. Less cant on flat rib guns. MX7.

 

You probably perceive less canting on a flat rib gun but you still probably are canting it. One quick fix is the angle your hands and the height of your stock hand elbow. The higher your stock hand elbow is the more you tent to cant a gun to the left if you are right handed, Also if your hand is forward on your pistol grip you will tend to cant to the left.

The lower you hold your elbow the more you will cant to the right, So you can see that I think the main reason someone cants a trap gun is hand and elbow position. Just like you have to hold a golf club correctly not to slice or hook you need told hold a shotgun correctly not to cant it. You should also work your fore end hand an elbow in tandem with your stock side. The more under the forearm the easier to cant to the left, the more on the side with a higher elbow the more to the right.

I recommend you watch other shooters to see what I'm talking about. If you cant a high shooting gun to the right your pattern will be to the right of center and just the opposite with the left. Most unsingle guns just make canting more obvious because your line of site is so high BUT if you shoot a gun that shoots dead on you shouldn't in theory have any problem if you do shoot ebonically. (Canted like they do in the movies)

 

I'm right handed, left eye dominate, so I close my left eye. I shoot a MX8/2000. I get away with it for the most part, but struggle in the bad light. I did tryva short rib Perazzi a few years ago and liked it. It seemed like it opened up my view as the rib wasn't blocking anything. My wife quickly put the damper on my new found "vision" when she found out the price! All truth be told, if I focus on the target good things happen. I've hunted all my life and have never shot anything but a top single.

 

Brad, do you remember the wooden spacers that I made for the 682 under single that fit right under the rib to make it look like you were shooting an o/u?

Dave Berlet

 

Not for nothing, BUT I found my canting problem years ago was due to an improper length of pull I had.

As I got older I went to an actual stock fitter (Doug Turnbull's Father Terry) and when he got the gun to fit me, no more canting problem. I stuck with that LOP for every gun I have owned, Top single and Unsingle, and never had a cant problem since.

That was just my observation.

 

Shooting with the "dot" and two eyes does make you a one eyed shooter at the target, but you are a two eyed shooter at it point the target appears . You won't see the transition .

 

the reason for the dot is to prevent you from seeing the front sight with the off eye. A right hand shooter should not see the the front sight with his right eye closed when mounted.

 

if you are seeing the front bead 34 inches from your eye how can you see a target 34 yards away? It is impossible.

Most right hand shooters cant to the left, left handed to the right. If any of you can remember Star Shot look how much those shooting that canted their guns into the target. I used to do that myself. A trick was higher elbow on the left posts, = left word cant increased lead to the left and lower elbow on the right side = cant to the right. Canting your gun a little helps you see the target better which is why shooters do it subconsciously. I'd do it on purpose to help my shooting. When I was on my a game I could control it,

A right hander canted to the left makes it very hard to pick up a right hand target from 4 or 5 but real quick from 1 or 2. If you don't think this works try it on practice and you will be surprised.

Everyone always wants to know a secret shooting trick so here is one of mine. Thing about it most shooters won't try it anyhow. The reason I don't like to do lessons is that so many times shooters don't listen anyhow. They paid me to tell them that they were doing everything OK already. I never could understand that and felt it a waste of my time and their money.

 

Hi Brad, thanks for sharing. Question, how does length of pull, to long or to short and butt pad position, as in adjustable pad plate change things? Like swing or vision? Thanks again, have a great holiday. Bill

 

Question: Does this Brad Dysinger fella really know anything about trapshooting?

I haven't found his name much in the shoot reports. He sure seems to have a lot of opinions.

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Hey, I found another one when luck was on his side and he broke a 200 straight.

Well, actually 14 of them.

Enjoy Our History !

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Makes one wonder if he was using 7 1/2s OR 8s all that time ?

 

One could only imagine how much better he could have shot if there was ''graphs'' he could have studied before shooting.

 

I could use a good Christmas Graph today. Or at least a chart.

 

HA! you beat me to it.

 

How about a size chart.


It just struck me. The two on the right remind me of Little Enos and Big Enos.

 

I will share my Christmas Day pattern results.

My 1100 at 30 yards with light 8's .....

 

User 1 Thanks I needed that. Is that a fixed choke? Reloads or new? Hope you all are having a Merry Christmas.

 

That's some mighty fine bullet art shooting in User 1's moving graph.

 

That was with a reload, from a special family reload recipe passed down through several generations ..... And through a 30 in. step-rib fixed full barrel .....

The only part of the recipe I will share is ..... It is a green dot reload, and you have to make sure there are exactly eight green flakes per shell .....

 

Brad,
Would you know where to get a copy of the video you and Morris Stinebring made? I loaned my copy out years ago
and it never came back.

Thanks,
Ron Burdick

 

I think I saw that years ago. Isn't that the one where Brad has his back to the trap while talking and calling the direction of every target as he electrically releases targets?

 

Ron, No I haven't seen one in years. Kenny folk lore everyone knows you can't read a trap.

 

Hey Brad,
One of the things I remember was you and Morrie talking about shooting in the wind. You weighed about 135 and Morrie
came in about 275. He stated the wind never bothered him.

Ron Burdick

 

HistoryBuff,
Can you put a year on that?

Ron Burdick

 

I can do better than than Ron. How about Trap & Field, August 1986, page 29.

 

Is that a pheasant on your hat Brad ? Glenn

 

Turkey

 

Brad back in those days I thought the bill was on the back of your hat.

Dave Berlet