Live Stream grand at Sparta Illinois

The streaming pictures show how poorly the place is set up. When you go there you probably wont see your friends. No comradery like Vandalia or the Cardinal Center. No one on the boardwalk because there really is no boardwalk.

The SCTP Nationals will never be there again now that they have tasted the Cardinal Center. No comparison.

 

You guys would love it if it had been built in Ohio!

 

Win 101

With every post you prove how truly ignorant you are about the sport and the history. I can only guess you are but a child. I dont say that to belittle all children or to say you can help that you are a child on an adult computer.

The CC was designed by Ohioans in the image of Vandalia. I have been to all 3 places. I doubt you have been to more than one. Ohioans helped build the CC. It is on Jack's property with most of it coming from Jack but Ohioans and some visionaries from nearby states showed Jack how to do it.

If the people in the heartland of trapshooting wanted a dinosaur like Sparta they would have built it.

The Sparta design is a failure. The vendors understand it. The boardwalk is split up. You drive to your trap and drive an hour to your motel. The empty pictures will always be empty. Nothing like the photos posted by FG in the pictures forum. Too late now. Live with it.

Good luck trying to fool a few that you know something about the sport. It aint working.

 

We all know how everyone East of Indiana and West of W. Virginia feels about Illinois.
Give it a rest already!

What I was meaning, and with the way some of you guys can see things in sentences that weren't written,
If the WSRC had been built in Ohio, you guys would have loved it.
Of course the name would have had to be changed.
Something like.......

Doesn't matter anyway. It is where it is because Illinois stepped up and Ohio didn't.

 

Win 101 did you ever shoot Vandalia???

 

Win 101---again you show your immaturity and lack of knowledge of the sport and the gun population.

Gun owners hate the gun hate state in the east as well as the west. It was on the poll the ATA gave to the members long before you were a shooter. You did not know that?

The shooters in the Ohio area built a better place on Jack's property. Why would they want less? The WSRC would struggle in Ohio the way it is designed.

You sound ignorant of the fact that the Cardinal Center threw registered targets before the WSRC.

Again with each post you prove how little you know about the sport.

 

101 is a new shooter. He never shot Vandalia. He has never been to the CC.

 

I guess that's his loss, he don't know what real trap shoot is.

 

I agree with 101. If more of you Sparta haters would go to the WSRC you would like it. There is a boardwalk & lots meet there. I shot for more than 10 years in vandaila and it sucked! Would never want to go back to that! If the CC is like that don't want to go there for sure!!

 

I am just asking a question here to the folks who are actually out there.

Does it appear that they ran some weed and grass killer out to just beyond the trap houses ?

Sure looks that way in the 3 live streams of the fields.

Not a bad idea if they did. It would be one way not to have to pay staff to mow.

Can anyone tell me ?

 

The first 12 events are posted and they have not got 1500 entries in any one event yet, sure hope it picks up ... Sometimes sucking is not a bad thing T Shot , attendance matters ... I'm sure they will miss you at the Cardinal Center or not even know you were not there, more than likely ...

T-Shot, Win 101, Bat (please) ,

Define : Sparta Hater ... (be specific please ) ...
Define : Difference of opinion ( specific Please )
Define ATA hater : (specific Please ) WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

T Shot,

I've been to Sparta several times and not only like it, I enjoyed myself every time.

Please do not confuse my opinion that it was not the best location and my belief that attendance would decline with being a "hater."

And, I'm not a "hater" for my opinion that our E. C. should be required to keep the Board of Directors better informed of important matters.

Often times when posters disagree with the opinions of others they feel compelled to call them "haters" and/or "bashers" of both Sparta and the ATA.

Just as you have your opinions, other posters also have opinions. It does not make us bad people to disagree with some of the decisions made by ATA leadership. To support my notion, think about the votes proffered at every annual meeting. Unanimous decisions on rule changes are few and far between. It doesn't make either opposing side "haters" or "bashers" for voting their conscience in what they truly believe is in the best interest of the sport. Heck, even the 5 members of the Executive Committee don't always vote unanimously on their motions. Perhaps you've even disagreed with a past ATA decision yourself.

I assure you that most on this forum (including me) care very much about the A.T.A. and are putting in our own time in an attempt to provide much needed oversight of our association. If our Delegates paid more attention or desired to be more involved, our association would be better served.

HB

 

? Not sure "what real trap shoot is" means? This is an honest, innocent question. Regards, Ed

 

Lack of rain in the area.

 

Win 101, t-shot, I have shot trap for 40+ years in 38 states including Illinois and nothing about Sparta is convenient. I've been there, never shot there and never will, but it is laid out way to big. The vendors aren't located in a Central area like the old grand at Vandalia was or the CC is. Vendors are important to a trap shoot. Vendors like the CC and not so much Sparta. Just facts.

The camp ground is all spread out, treeless. The first Sparta grand had about 2700 if I remember right and this year will be real lucky to have as many as last year. There will be fewer shooters from Illinois this year than that first year.

Sparta is the wrong place in an anti gun state and the ATA members told the EC in the years before the move that they wouldn't go to an anti gun state and they didn't. That Winston dominated EC of back then made the calculation that moving the grand west would have shooters from the west make up for the loss of Eastern Shooters and they were wrong . In fact if you research some of the kool aid experts of back then they boasted that they didn't need Ohio or Pa shooters. So the ATA today is what it is. A declining member base with fewer clubs shooting registered targets and a diminished sport throwing easy targets and giving away meaningless and worthless trophy s. I know I saw the best years of the ATA and unfortunately now the worst. Brad

 

Very true. And the opposite is also true. Many who support Sparta and the ATA receive the same treatment here.

I happen to agree with those who feel the ATA is on a downward spiral and Sparta was a ridiculous place to put the Grand. It is my opinion and they have theirs. I will not refer to them as ignorant or immature though for their opinion.

Dysinger is the de facto voice of the disgruntled membership and carries significant impact due to his accomplishments in the sport and many have labeled him a firebrand. I watched the youtube video of Dysinger and Berlet discussing pitch and it is obvious that they are good friends. I see that Dave Berlet is again shooting at the Grand this year like he does every year. I am certain that Berlet shares many of the same views as Dysinger regarding the ATA and Sparta yet he shoots at the Grand. I bet this does not affect their friendship one bit and neither refers to the other as ignorant or one of the many personal insults hurled by keyboard commandos on forums these days. The worst slander I have ever heard one of those guys utter had to do with donuts.

History Buff, thank you for your post it was well written. And to you "haters and name callers" on both side of the fence, have a donut.

 

The ATA knew (were told by many) what to expect prior to relocating to Illinois via polls that were taken and ignored totally and completely so they deserve what they get, paybacks are a bitch ... Screw the members and the members screw back with their wallets ... The lack of attendance has nothing to do with disgruntled members (Dysinger) (if there is such a thing ) that refuse to attend anymore than it does those that choose to attend ... Its been over 11 years, and it has proven to be more of a stumbling block than asset, get over it and think about this, keep doing the same thing over and over while trying to get a different out come, it ain't going to happen ... (Wish in one hand, shit in the other, see which one fills up first) ... The membership drops off every year, like the attendance at the biggest little shoot in the USA that was once grand does ... There are many people who have an opinion about the grand who have never shot the grand except in Sparta, Ill where it exists in name only ... The name "grand" has been whored out over the years and that in itself takes much of the shine off of it ... Mini grand , maxi grand, spring grand, autumn grand, November grand, July grand, grand this, grand that and it still ain't the grand ... Hey, I won the grand, really which one ..? It is a persons choice to shoot or not shoot the grand, their choice cannot and should not be the blame for it existing or not existing (Stuff that crap where the sun don't shine ) then go and wish in one hand and shit in the other again ... I think the blame should be squarely place on the shoulders of those who caused it, EC, BOD (many of them ) over many years and that continues yet today ... The ATA has become a Cash Cow for the Elite ED, EC and many of the BOD , they may like like to hear that but thatis really too damn bad, its the truth ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

I cannot believe that anyone in their right mind or any mind would locate (strategically) cameras focused on areas where there is the very least amount of traffic (I hope) as the cameras are at the WSRC ..? I cannot be the only one who see's a problem with those pictures (camera angles) or is that it ..? I think its the west side camera shows nobody, nothing happening except banners blowing in the wind ... What the .???? WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

WPT why the he'll you watching it? You hate Sparta the WSRC and maybe the ATA! Just go away!!

 

Just watching it to find something else to complain about!

 

WPT has a point. I would rather see some of the firing line or vendors area.
I swear I saw the Maytag repairman in the main entry building.

Regards.....Gerald

 

IT guy says you are watching from Kansas. Not in Sparta. LOL

 

Just one more and you'll have that 25, Hinerman.
Then we must shoot your hat or something to celebrate.
It took over 2 years for crying out loud!
I am so proud of you.

No, I'm not in Kansas, either.

 

What gave you the idea I hate Sparta, I have said many times over that Sparta is Rural America in its finest hour and is a nice little town but not the place I would of ever considered moving what used to be the biggest Trap shooting event of the year to ... I was in Sparta before it was ever thought of or considered for a spot to relocate to ... Not sure how long T shot has been a member of the ATA, but I would be willing to bet I have been a Life Member longer than he has been alive let alone be a trap shooter which is questionable at best ... Now, you go away and until you have something that is factual, you might want to keep it to yourself ... I get a feeling T Shot is a Sparta resident or maybe a homeless guy stealing time on the Library's computer ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Good stuff.....you are not shooting in Sparta.

 

Hip, hip hooray!!!!!
Hinerman hit 25 post!!!!

No, I'm not shooting.
Didn't want to.
Sparta nor the WSRC had anything to do with my decision either.
Just wasn't feeling it this year.

But hey, enough about me.
Congratulations on finally getting that 25th post!
What a milestone!
And on a thread about the GRAND AT THE WSRC NEAR SPARTA ILLINOIS, no less!!!!
3 cheers for hinerman

 

I have an inside source that says wifi is an issue this year. Camera placement was a trial run. Anybody who has a nest camera knows there wifi hungry. I'm sure they will get it figured out. They know that they are having issues. I think it's a great idea, just needs to be tweaked.

 

Another person from the area that blames those in OH and PA for not supporting Sparta. This thread perfectly shows how those from OH and PA revered Vandalia and trapshooting. Also shows that so many in the Illinois Gun Hate State could care less.

 

If anyone would take the time to go back and read all of the actual causes and reasons that the attendance is pitiful in Illinois and the WSRC rather than blame Ohio, Pa, and any and every other place they can think of to lay blame they may just change their tune or maybe not ... People like to place blame on anything and every body rather than accept the truth and deal with it ... The ATA EC and many of the BOD made the choice after taking poll after poll of shooters and vendors which all did not support the move to Illinois ... Its not because its a gun hate state or because its not in Ohio, it is because of location, location, location which is a problem for many of the shooters who are getting older and do not want all of the extra driving and finding a place to stay within reason ... Illinois was eliminated at one point because the site could not pass due diligence which was avoided by it being leased rather than purchased ... The next thing you know everyone is saying Illinois is the only place who had never even been there and they are this and they are that and they are going to change the rules (Laws) etc and so forth ... People will tell you how great the WSRC is but never once set foot on the ground at Vandalia which was old and dilapidated but in the middle of everything and anything you could want close by ... Its not what was done but the way it was done that tuned people against it and attending, they have that right as much as those who choose to attend ... The Members are the ATA, not the other way around .... To those that attend , get over it, there are many more people who will not for their own personal reason and the validity is the exact same maybe even better ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Hinerman,
I don't blame nor do I give a rat's a$! if anyone from Ohio, Pennsylvania or anywhere else for not supporting the WSRC.
I don't care whether you, or anyone else that slams the place, especially the one's that have never been there, ever show up.

I'm not shooting at the Grand because I used all my available time off attending the AIM National.
Not that I needed to justify anything to you or anyone else.

 

John Doe

Thanks for sharing your information and it's nice that inside sources are willing to provide some details on these matters. Please offer our thanks to your source.

Personally, I agree with wpt on the placement of the cameras. If I was assigned this task I would not have selected the current placement if I wanted it to be a success for a trial run. I certainly appreciate the concept though and I'm in agreement with John Doe that it needs some tweaking.

The one thing that truly surprised me was that every time I viewed the Events Center,

HB

 

It's OK win101. You're reminding me of a moderator on another site who never shot a target beyond the borders of MT but bans any and all for disparaging remarks of the little grand in the middle of nowhere. See, on our site we welcome differing opinions-right or wrong. That said, my family will be headed to Cardinal Center next week for our version of the Grand. We'll have access to fine, nearby hotels, an over-abundance of eating and drinking establishments, plenty of vendors and a short 7 hr. drive from PA. Nice targets and we'll be joined by plenty of OH and PA shooters too!

 

Win101

That is not really accurate. Fact is you have only shot 200 targets at the grand in the last 3 years. Hmmm. Dawg username's comparison to you and the Montana shooter that never shot outside of Montana is accurate.

You don't even support Sparta. And you are from the area.

 

Personally, I think the cameras are a fanazztastic idea but to place them strategically where the action is would of made much better sense ... Probably just a timing thing but I have never seen more than a hand full of people in the event's center at any given time ... That is not a complaint, its an observation ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Hinerman.

Not sure where you got your information and don't really give a f###, but you had better make sure it's correct before you post it!
I have NEVER, again, NEVER, can you see this, NEVER shot a target at the Grand. This year, last year or any other freaking year. How many have you shot?
I did shoot the 200 singles at this years US OPEN. I coach a youth team. Have for over 10 years. My shooting is on the "back burner" for now.
What do you do to further the sport besides mumble your bullshit 27 times over the last 2 years!


I also don't give a flying flip what the "Dawg" thinks!

Oh, bye the way, keep posting your bullshit and you'll soon hit that 50!

 

FYI, the 'dawg spent many years shooting at Vandalia-warts and all. That said, it must be pretty hard defending a venue in your home state where you have little desire to participate.

 

DAWG,
I DON'T FREAKING LIVE IN ILLINOIS!!!

 

Whatsamatter, too far to drive? Yeah, I feel your pain. That's why I fly to any shoot over 8 hrs. away. My idea of fun is NOT spending my free time in a trailer in the middle of nowhere drinking cheap beer and passing gas with my best buds. To each his own!

 

There's nothing the matter !

I live in Missouri about 1-1/2 hours from the WSRC.
When I go there I drive. Drive daily to and from if attending more than I day.
Driving doesn't bother me.

Rude, obnoxious people bother me.
Not that you or anyone else is rude or obnoxious.

Have fun at the Cardinal and your pretend Grand!

 

101

You shot back to back days? Hah.....you are entertaining. And when did you shoot at the grand on back to back days?

The ironies of the whole discussion:
1. We wont see you on the WIFI.
2. You don't support the place anymore than the Dawg's friends in PA.
3. You say you hate obnoxious people.

See you at the CC!

 

The midway of the Cardinal Center would have been better.

 

Hinerman,
Hah!
I finally figured it out!
YOU CAN'T READ!
That or you can't comprehend what you do read.
You wouldn't know me if you saw me.

 

Win 101 there is an old saying that if you argue with an idiot long enough it gets very difficult to determine who is the idiot.

 

Win101, I truly hope you are teaching those kids to have more respect for the truth than you are showing on this site. Your use of improper language is deplorable. I would not want you teaching my children or grand children your idea of conducting a civil discourse on any subject. Especially on sportsmanship. Maybe Tshot can take you under his wing and teach you how to conduct your self in a discussion. Truth will prevail when men of honor insist on it.
Roger C.

 

Roger,
We're not fro Mecca or the Holy Land.
Heck, some of the kids are worse than me!

But thanks, just the same.

 

Win101, And that is supposed to make your foul mouth rants all right. You are not only a potty mouth, you are not the brightest bulb in the string. Now go and wash you mouth out with soap and grow up. Roger Coveleskie

 

Vandalia's parking was atrocious and the lines were staggering, Sparta has awesome parking and nominal lines and could easily swallow the Cardinal Center within it. The Cardinal is a well run facility but it's not close to 3 miles of traps with parking that Sparta offers. That being said, the WSRC could easily accommodate more shooters than are showing up and hopefully the youth shooting programs will one day return the ATA to it's illustrious past otherwise it's just a senior citizen sport and averages will continue to dwindle.

 

Yep....4800 shooters in the GAH will do that.

If you are looking for empty parking lot...plenty of parking in a gun hating state, then Sparta is the place. The SCTP has tasted the CC. They will never go back. Enjoy the empty lots and short lines. Not my metric of success.

 

They have yet to use the entire trap line so why have it and have to maintain it, waste of money ... The WSRC cannot and does not draw a crowd, what would you say the reasons would be ..? They have parking up the kazoo, you can fit Cardinal Center inside of it (even when the grand is going on and not disturb anything or anyone ..?) because there ain't no crowds and plenty of extra traps available ... The Youth programs got screwed by the State of Illinois and the ATA, you seriously think they will ever be so stupid to return ..? Burn me once shame on you , burn me twice shame on me ... The HOF of at Cardinal has more traffic in a day then the hof at the WSRC does in a year ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

WPT Vandalias camping & parking did suck! And much better than the CCs They use all the banks for several of the events grand week.

 

T shot.....you never shot at Vandalia. Tell me you are not Win101. You don't fool anyone. You don't even support Sparta. This place needs a comic.

 

I have been to every Grand since 1992! Life member since 1983! Don't tell what I support.