Every other bank at big shoots defeats background advantage.

You shoot on Bank 1 trap A, then walk to Bank 3 trap A, then walk to Bank 5 trap A, and finish on Bank 7 trap A. Everyone gets the same background. Perceived background advantage eliminated.

 

I notice you say walk, half of them would never make it!

 

That sounds great but what if there's not that many banks?

 

Shouldn't be a problem as most everybody rides these days, once everybody gets the idea there should not be any missed traps.

 

733,
The system you are describing was used at many shoots years ago. It is still in use at the Middletown Gun Club in southern Ohio and the last time I shot the Indiana State shoot (several years ago) they used that system. I am in agreement with you that moving away from the "bank of 4 side by side traps" would go a long way toward helping all shooters feel they are on an even footing starting out no matter what trap they start on. Having worked on the administrative side of some of the largest shoots in the country, I can tell you that there will certainly be shooters that will get confused and go to the wrong trap. The line supervisors are there to help those shooters get to the appropriate trap. I think it makes for a more enjoyable shooting experience than the 4 trap bank system, but I'm sure many out there would disagree with that. I still remember the days of shooting doubles 30/20 rather than 50 per trap. I doubt we see those days return either.

 

733
When you pass your 80 th year of age, tell me you could do the walk from bank 1-D to bank 3-A and then shoot. very few could ever do that. Every shooter can not afford to either rent or buy a cart. Many would have to quit shooting. I guess this could be added to the new fantastic direction of our sport. It just may be adopted at the next meeting. Roger C.

 

Put a donut at the next trap. The fat old farts will make the trip.

 

I've been squadded with people who can barely make it from post 5 back to post 1. They'd have to run shuttle service.

 

Roger,
You and I agree on way more trapshooting issues than we disagree on, but this is one we will disagree on. You see, the ATA's response to every issue over the last 30 plus years has been to pander to the lowest common denominator and in nearly every case to the overall detriment of our sport. Examples - Issue: some clubs are not throwing targets wide enough to meet the rules; ATA's response - rather than enforce the rules as written we will just just change the rules to allow narrower targets. Issue: hand loaders must adhere to a maximum of 1200 fps but the major manufacturers are producing handicap shells that exceed 1200 fps. ATA's response - we will write up a rule that allows everyone to shoot 1290 fps, cuz the 1200 fps rule really wasn't a rule, wink wink. Issue: Suzy can't win a trophy if Mary is at a shoot. ATA's response - no problem, we will just divide the smallest group of category shooters into two categories and while we are at it lets toss in two more categories so everyone can win a ribbon! I could go on with many other issues but I think you see where I am going. Following their past logic, if the ATA feels our 80+ year old shooters can't make it to the next trap, they will have everyone shoot 100 targets on one trap so nobody has to walk. Last time I checked a good walk is part of every sporting clays course and that sport seems to be growing. Next week I will shoot the Buckeye on a squad where at 52 years of age I will be the baby. If our squad had to move 6 traps to get to the next 25 we would just figure out how to get it done, we wouldn't quit. No one will ever convince me that moving the Grand to Sparta is the sole reason for our sport's current "fantastic direction". The type of thinking and decision making I've just outlined, is in my opinion, what has brought us to where we are today.

 

Unfortunately we were all young once too. Yes, I shot plenty of targets at PA in the 70's when a shuttle buggy transported us to the lower traps. It was great fun but looking at the physical capabilities of today's shooters and the accompanying obesity I question if it could work again. You are spot on with your comments about those other issues.

 

Basing our marketing plans on a group of unhealthy elderly shooters that will soon be gone is fatal. Creating a competitive environment with a larger group with growth potential has possibilities.

 

The largest group of shooters at most shoots are senior vets. At the Grand years ago they started 12 squads east and 12 squads west. We did not have as many aged shooters as we do today. Many of us could not make that walk today. At 52 yrs. old I could have ran between trap as you mentioned, But Don I would love to see you address this same post when and if you ever reach the eighties in you yearly count.
I will give you 28 more years to reassess you thinking of what it is like to be 80 years old and still shooting. oleolliedawg is spot on with his comments.Roger C.

 

733,
So you want to write off the shooters that have supported the sport for many years, that is very considerate of you. Some day you may be in the group that you would remove from the sport. With out the Vet's and senior vet"s you would not have a sport. Your line of thinking is very flawed. The bank system has probably save the sport from further demise, and in your superior wisdom you want to remove the back bone of the sport by eliminating the older shooters. It must be lonley being the only one with your vast amount of knowledge of marketing. Do you work for Sears & Kmart in their marketing dept by any chance? Roger C.

 

The content of this thread is exactly why "Trapshooting" will continue it's free-fall off the "cliff" ..... EVERYTHING is a "binary choice", "I/we can't, so that is not an option .....

Any/all "special needs" can be "taken care of", without taking the "liberal" opinion of, "take everything to it's lowest level, so everyone feels equal" .....

FWIW ..... "Trapshooting" can start to "listen" to the "next generation", or drive them to those who will .....

 

Roger,

It is a competition isn't it? Or has our sport become a social event? Give the old and obese a 27 yard pin whether they deserve it or not and make everyone shoot all 50 targets from the same trap. No more events with 100 birds? Too hard?

Better yet, why change posts? Let's make the targets presentation narrower. That is the direction we have been moving. How is that working?

I may not be the next generation. I am the last.

 

I I see you realize Trap has become primarily a social event-good for you. The "social event" shooters took over ATA management many years ago much to Trapshooting's demise. Solve that problem first and we've got a small chance of future success. In the meantime, enjoy being first trinket loser with a 99/100!

 

733, I usually have more patience with no it all's. You are the exception. This game is or was a game executed by gentlemen. You it seems would not understand the concept. I have known many winners in my life time and most were also champions, but a few thought they were owed the honor and many of them were not respected. To hear any one say that just because a person is old or not in perfect physical condition, they should be shoved to the side for the young, ignorant and able (this is where I guess you fit in)to me this is disgusting.
The more you post the dumber you sound. You are one of the persons that I will give a little advice to; Shut up and listen, you will learn more than when you are talking. Roger Coveleskie 80+ yrs. young and still shooting

 

733,
The target flights were not changed for the older shooters. They were change for the cry babies that could not measure up to the standards set by the shooters of bygone eras. The wantta bee's that now want to eliminate the real seasoned competitors. so they can excell at the popup targets that were changed for them along with lessor angles. Real shooters do not agree with the changes made.

 

Roger

Rent a golf cart. It is working well in sporting clays. It is a competition.

 

Personally, I think everyone should shoot from 27 yards (Ladies and kids 25 yards ) and have classes like in singles, as well as mandatory purses on Championship targets ... Let the chips fall where they may, handicap is handicap and 20 yards is not much of a handicap (more like long 16's ) ... Classify the Pro's as Pro's and separate them from the every day shooters so they shoot for their own money as does each class ... When I started shooting you shot every 4 th trap and started at the 22 yard line that got changed to make it better for those who wanted a trophy for showing up and shooting 2 hole targets ... The game changed, altered, and modified to make every body feel good about not being and or shooting good ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

The insurance world calls that a death spiral.

 

STat mAn, I do not believe it was the elderly that started our organization on the downward spiral. I have never heard of any of them asking for slower targets, narrower angles, more catagories. I have heard many of them ask for the rules to be returned as they were before the the whiners started wanting to get a trophy for just showing up at a shoot. That did not work out to well for the Skeet shooters.
Sporting clays is growing because trap and skeet are no longer the toughest games on the roster. They have been dumbed down for the P.C. crowd.

 

Gary (Dr. Longshot) your phone number is not working , call me if you get a chance ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

At 83 years of age I believe that I could still walk over 4 traps and shoot another 25 targets and continue this until I completed the 100 birds and yes I would still like doubles at 30/20. I also walk the Sporting Clays courses, but again that's just me. No brag just fact.

 

Good on you oldphart. You are one in many thousands. Many older shooters could not shoot and then walk. Do you remember shooting and then walking 12 traps at the Grand and Ohio state shoots. If the club starts 12 squads at a time and you shoot squad one. What will the field number be for your second field?
If you really want to know if you could do the walk just walk the same distance and then come back to you designated trap for your next field. I hope you can but I will not put my retirement money on you. Roger C.

 

Roger

I am not trying to get you wound up but I feel I may have done so. As a solution to the problem lets pretend the shoot is at the CC. Assuming there are other folk that cant make the walk and afford a cart. (could be due to high K80 mortgage) We can have a designated trap for those and they can shoot bank 5.

The catch. They would need to fill out a form and have the doctor check the appropriate box stating the shooter has Old Farters Syndrome. All shooters with the same paperwork can then shoot together on that bank.

We wont even call it "Bank 5". It will from now on be named "Old Farters Bank." Don't be late for your bank. Second call "Roger Coveleskie, trap 1 old farters bank."

Glad to help.

 

Roger, 12 each way. Did you, and most did, turn the wrong way? Darn that was embarrassing.

 

733,
You are either a troll or an ignoramus. I'm voting for both. have a nice day. Roger C.

 

320090T,
You can bet you sweet bippie I did. If you ever noticed a shooter running water from the fountians down the barrel of a BT-99 you probably passed me. The heat waves of off the top barrel guns made the field look like it was crawling. Roger C.

 

Roger.
You could bet your money on me without fear of losing it. I walk 4 times a day with the dog for 3/4 of an hour each time except Sunday when I go to shoot, then it is only twice morning and night. This is good for the dog and also me. Have a great day.