27 yard line

Name the first 20 shooters to shoot at 27 yards.

Luke

 

Dan Ohrlic, George Snellenberger, Larry Gravestock, Gene Sears, Britt Robinson come to mind but not neceswsarily in Order

GB...............................DLS

 

Luke,

Rules called for 27-yard handicaps back in the 1890's. Here's the conditions for shooting the Grand American Handicap at Live Birds in 1897. Note: 25 - 33 yards.

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So, I assume you mean the names of first shooters handicapped to 27 yards when the ATA increased the "back fence" from 25 to 27 yards.

I wonder what year that was when the ATA initiated handicapping up to 27 yards??

Doc,

Dan Orlich is correct. I think the others did not make the first 20 list.

I Enjoy Our History !

HB

 

Luke,
As stated by HB, if you are asking for the first 20 shooters to reach the "back fence" when the ATA increased the maximum yardage from 25-27 yards at the start of the 1955 target year, I cannot provide you with a specific listing. However, listed below are 31 shooters that were handicapped at the 27 either before or during the target year 1956. Joe Devers reached the 27 during TY56 and it is known that he was "approximately" the 20th shooter do so. Hence most if not all of the first 20 would in all probability be among these 31 shooters. One concern that I have is that I was unable to locate any individual shooter yardage data prior to TY56 and since it appears that reductions were mandatory at that time it is very possible that a shooter could have reached the 27 during TY55 and was subsequently reduced prior to TY55 end. In which case the shooter would be at 25/26 yds for the start of TY56. If he/she did not make it back to the 27 during TY56 they would not have been identified in my research. [Note: prominent names not on the list, Rudy Etchen, Wayne Kennedy, Jim McCole and Herb Parsons to name a few]. In addition, although I am confident of 13 shooters being in the first 20, the remaining 7 all reached the 27 during TY56 and I have no data to determine which shooters achieved the 27 before Devers. I am certain that there are others that follow this forum who have a greater familiarity with and a better knowledge of some of these shooters than I and may be able to refine my information. I apologize in advance for any shooter(s) that I may have missed and/or overlooked.
It is common knowledge that the first 5 to reach the new 27 yd max were; Merle Stockdale (IA), Arnold Riegger (WA), Dan Orlich (NV), Maynard Henry (CA) and Evelyn Primm (CA), all making it to the 27 by April 16, 1955. It is also known that John Sternberger (OH) was the first Ohio shooter and the 17th to the 27 in 1956. And as stated above Joe Devers (NV) made the 27 as number 20 also in 1956.
The following shooters were listed at 27 yds for the start of TY56. Therefore it is reasonable to conclude that they would be in the first 20: Julius Petty (ARK), Tony Biagi (IL), James Rexroat (KS), Ned Lilly (MI), Tom Lynott (UT) and Vic Reinders (WISC).
The remaining shooters all reached the 27 sometime during TY56 but as stated I have no idea who preceded Devers at #20 and who didn't: E W Henke (CA), R E Lewis (CA), Herbert Longden (IL), Ray Swanson (IL), Bob Allen (IA), Morris Carpenter (KS), Ray Zweiner (MINN), H R Peterson (MT), Bueford Bailey (NEB), Bud June (NEB), Ralph Kohler (NEB), Phil Ross (NV), Fred Waldock (OH), Gordon Miller (OR), Orley Milligan (OR), Earl Colson (WA) and Floyd Hale (WY).
It is interesting to note that the list is dominated by Western and Mid-West shooters. No east coast or southern boys to be found!

 

Thanks guys!!

 

MR. History Buff,

In records you have sent to me I remembered the 1934 rule book taken from the Sportsmen's Review. Page 40 states the 27 yard line for the GAH, third column.

Could you ad some explanation to this, as we are all seeing the Back Fence 27 Yd. Line in the TG 1955 as the beginning.

I am confused as to how this 1934 Handicapping system worked, as it states lower than 16 yards, and after 27 yards it states, Etc., etc., etc.

Thanks for anything you might add.

 

As a followup to my above post, History Buff had also sent me this complete 1934 rule book. Once again it clearly shows the 27 yard, etc. etc.

See page # 41

Once again, Thank You HB ...This has been very interesting reading.

 

Brad’s friend (I hope),

I don’t know the answer since I’ve never found a good explanation or reason in any minutes.

I can only speculate on the reason for the rule change listed in the 1934 Rule Book and included in the GAH Programs for 1934, ’35 and ’36.

Some background :

From a field of 597 shooters, Walter Beaver, the 36-year old electrician of Berwyn, Pa., won the 1933 Grand American Handicap, with a score of 98 from 25 yards. It is also notable that young 17-year old Ned Lilly, of Stanton, Michigan who won the Clay Target Championship a few days prior, also shot a 98 in the GAH shooting from 24 yards, but lost two in the shoot-off, when Beaver calmly broke his 25 straight.

Since trapshooting’s earliest day and even today, belief in the domination of the sport by long-yardage shooters continues to be discussed. And it certainly was just after the 1933 GAH. The fact that it was the first time in history the title was won from 25-yards was inconsequential. As was the fact it was never won from the 24-yard line and only twice from 23 yards.

Sportsmen’s Review offered an article in their October 28, 1933 issue titled “If You Have Any Constructive Ideas About Promoting National Trapshooting Let’s Have Them.”

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Many responses offered were about the handicap system.

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The A.T.A. Executive Committee discussed the handicap system at their meeting in January 1934.
The third paragraph fails to say why.

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So, my speculation is that the E. C. not only discussed it but they made the decision to include the 26, 27, etc. in the 1934 Rule Book at that meeting to have those yardages available if they needed them, but more so to show short yardage shooters that the top shots could be moved back beyond 25 yards.

Personally I don’t think they had any intention of assigning shooters to 26 or 27 yards because I have never found any shooter placed at those handicaps during the Grand American Handicaps from 1934-1936.

Readers can decide whether the official introduction of the 27-yard line was in 1934 when it was not used or in 1955, the first time shooters did earn their way to the new "back fence."

Just my thoughts and I'll gladly accept verified accounts to the contrary.

Enjoy Our History !

HB

 

Fantastic job as usual HB

GB....................................DLS

 

HB,

Thanks Buddy !

I know you put hours of research into the explanation you wrote.

You certainly do have an extensive file.

Amazing, simply amazing.

 

10Guns,

Nice job with your list. It's not easy trying to figure out who and when shooters made the 27-yard post.

1956 is the first year that shooter's handicap yardage was included in the Average Books and that's why verifying those who made it in 1955 is a tough task.

What we do know is that Merle Stockdale was first and Arnold Riegger was second. Both men were punched to the 27 on the same day at the same shoot, on February 12, 1955 at the Mid-Winter Shoot at Las Vegas, NV. Mr. Stockdale broke 95 and Mr. Riegger broke 97.

On April 16, at the California State Shoot at the Kinsburg GC, Dan Orlich, Maynard B. Henry and Evelyn Primm each broke 96 to advance to the 27.

Vic Reinders was the next shooter to be punched to the MAX on July 17, 1955. At the North Dakota State Shoot, held at the Red River Valley GC, in Fargo, Vic carded a 97.

A week later, on July 24th, Julius Petty broke 96 of his century, at the ATA Southern Zone Shoot, in Jackson, Mississippi, earning his way to the 27.

The next to reach the "back fence" was Ned Lilly, when he broke 95 in the Preliminary Handicap at the Grand on August 25, 1955.

Now comes the problem. Within a headline on one of the pages of the Sportsmen's Review report on the 1955 Grand American Handicap, it states: "Cliff Doughman Gets 27-Yards For Win." Mr. Doughman was high Pro in the Preliminary Handicap with a score of 91. There were many other higher scores than 91. The winner was F. B. Reese, Heyworth, IL who broke 98 and beat Weldon Hoopman, Buckley, IL in the shoot-off and there were several scores of 97.

While the report credits Mr. Doughman with the achievement in the headline, on the final day of the GAH, Mr. Doughman shoots in the Vandalia Handicap from the 26 mark. I think the headline was incorrect but would like to find out just when Mr. Doughman truly made the 27-yard line. I'll keep looking.

I believe Tom Lynott is next but have not been able to verify when he made the 27. Still working on it.

Jim Rexroat and Tony Biagi made the 27 on Labor Day at different shoots. On September 4th, both men broke 97x100. Mr. Biagi achieved this feat at the Pines Gun Club Shoot in Streater, IL, while Mr. Rexroat made his honor at the Pratt Gun Club, Pratt, Kansas.

I have not verified those who followed but my list of 27-yard shooters closely resembles those mentioned by 10Gun.

Enjoy Our History !

HB

 

HB,
Thanks for the further clarification. I was pretty sure that I had overlooked a few. Mr. Doughman was listed at 26 yds for the entire TY56 and was one of many that fell into my "questionable" category. I do not know what the threshold average was or target review parameters for maintaining the 27 or for that matter any particular yardage in those years. However, it appears that reductions were mandatory and only a handful of those that made to the 27 were able to sustain the necessary average to stay there very long. That is not to say that they did not earn their way back. As an example Merle Stockdale, Maynard Henry and Evelyn Primm (#'s 1,4&5) were listed at the 26,25,25 respectively at the start of TY56. Stockdale and Henry made the 27 again during the year but Primm was subsequently reduced to 24 for TY57. In 1956 I believe the ATA had approximately 10,000+ handicap shooters with 31 at the "fence". At this years Spring Grand Handicap Championship in Tucson, AZ of the 740 entries 273 were at 27 yards. Are todays ATA handicaps truly a competition? You decide.

 

I'm now officially placing Tom Lynott, of Salt Lake City, UT in the #6 position on my list.

I have not verified the date or place where Mr. Lynott was punched to the 27 yard line, however, records show that he went from 27 to 26 yards on May 7th during the Golden West Grand at Reno, NV. At the Nevada State shoot on May 27th, Tom broke a 93 and 94 was the high handicap score. He may have earned his last yard at that time.

The next tournament I've been able to find scores for him is the Montana State Shoot July 7 - 10. He shot as a 27 yarder. He also shot from the 27 the next week at the Nevada Open Shoot, July 13-17.

Vic Reinders now moves to #7 since he earned the 27 yard line on July 17th.

Enjoy Our History !

HB