Are Our Guns Getting Too Heavy?

Sometimes I wonder if our trap guns seem to be getting too heavy. Sure the recoil is reduced but with all the added weight including adjustable stocks, ribs and recoil reduction systems it seems I'm swinging a club some days. I know most of us are getting old but I know the angles aren't getting wider although they seem to be at times!

 

If your gun is too heavy for you, there are remedies.

 

oleolliedawg, It's funny that you should say this today because I was just saying the same thing to Dave Berlet this weekend. I think that as the target setting has gotten narrower the need for a fast swinging (pointing) gun has diminished. I'm sure that heavy guns are one reason most shooters shoot so poor in the wind.

A heavy gun swings faster but is harder to change your point while swinging. I'm sure you know that no pigeon gun was very heavy and pigeon shooters shoot much bigger shells than trap shooters (maybe not the good Dr's back up loads) do.


The club feeling is real. Give me a Model 12, BT 99, Remington 1100 type balance on a trap gun. Especially on long, wide, windy targets. The kind of targets that I used to make the most money on. Brad

 

I'm kinda thinking the same thing. You look at many of today's All-Americans and they look like they'll still qualify as football linemen. Lifting a Trap Special or similar hundreds of times a week might be fine for them but not all of us look like Hulk Hogan. Worse, the less than beefy humans buy into this "I wannabee just like Harlan"routine, shoot those heavy guns poorly and maybe that's why we see 'em on the "For sale" rack so often. It seems we did quite well with much lighter guns in the past!

 

We're talking about 2-hole trap, right? I watch the really good shooters (27 yd) and they don't seem to "swing" their guns at all; very little barrel movement. I'd hate to go through life built like some of the champion shooters but they could shoot plastic guns and still soak up recoil. A lot of them look like slabs of beef with a human head. In my fledgling efforts I'll stay skinny and use my heavy gun.

 

My hunting guns are light but I carry them a lot more than shoot them. Even with todays regulation set targets, I still prefer a heavy gun to help with the felt portion of recoil even from light loads! Old job injuries coming back to haunt me I guess. I've always used a heavy gun for trap and seem to shoot pretty quick for an old guy.

HAP

 

Yes we shoot heavy guns for targets. While I don't shoot during the winter months. I usually will be dormant on trap gun handling November and December. Then I practice lifting and swinging my trap gun. I do this at the start of reconditioning 25 times with a rest of 5 minutes then another 25 and so on up to 100. After 1 month of that I bring it up to 200 times for a week or so then go to 300 times. This is at last every other day. I do this in front of a large mirror to make sure that when I shoulder the gun it is square and in the pocket of my shoulder. Also when you do this you are looking at a good shooter. Think positive know in your mind you can do it. With all of this practice you will be ready for spring. Some will agree some will not but it works for me.

 

Heavy guns sure help with the recoil, but as Brad says slow to start, once moving easy to move but hard to change your point while swinging, in my view you really shouldn't have to change your point while swinging if you pointed right in the first place. Eye on the target. Isn't this what its all about.

 

All that means is that your getting OLD and FEEBLE. LOL. Instead of lifting ONE can of beer you need to start lifting a 6 pack then a case in time if your Doc says its OK at your age to do so. LOL.

 

I've been known to lift a pitcher most every night and it hasn't made a difference. We're all getting old and feeble!

 

Interesting: thought about this last week. I shoot with one eye , chase targets, and started using my 870tb again for the last 2 months. It goes to the target so easily,from dead stop to wherever just point and shoot. Then I realized it was its lighter weight and weight distribution versus my citori that makes it feel right. maybe its the same reason I still see many model 12's. mike

 

If a gun fits you and is balanced to your liking I wouldn't think weight would be much of an issue.

 

I am 75 and still in good shape, but just got a new in the box Model 12 Y Trap and love the lighter weight and smoothe swing.

Carry On

 

Another issue is other than weight is Barrel length. When I was shooting for Beretta I had my choice of any shotgun they made to use. I tried a 34/30 680 unsingle combo first. I shot it very well at 16 yards, and had my highest singles average ever, shot the o/u well at doubles but my 27 yard scores were very inconsistent. I either broke a real high score or most of the time a lower 90's, high 80's not what I was looking for.

Being a right hand left eye dominate two eyed shooter I'd find myself firing off the BBL of the unsingle too many times at quarter lefts. I found that I point and shoot off the muzzle more the farther I'm from the target. I switched to a 30 inch 302 auto that I shot well and still own.

After a couple of years I wanted a top bbl single combo and went to a 34/30 682, I still have the 0/u bbls and had rib put own it to raise the point of impact for live bird shooting. I found that the higher shooting gun also helped at trap, I never did shoot the 34" single well and went to a 32" bbl. That was the gun I shot the best and most consistent at handicap, but not 16's, I shot the 34" better their, so I quit shooting the 34. My favorite gun for 16 yards was also my doubles gun and my live bird gun, 30 O/U.

The point to all of this is that I think a lot of shooters have to long of barreled guns also, not just too heavy. My experiences only. Brad

 

Brad, do you think your eye dominance may play any part in why the shorter barrels worked better for you? How you see the actual connection that causes you to fire may be somewhat different than the average dragon because of the eye thing.

I know another great shooter and I've picked his brain enough to feel I've found out how he makes that connection. He sees the bird/clay and it's track, with both eyes he looks slightly ahead of his target and busts it. As well as I could understand his explanations on how it all takes place, his eyes actually leave the target to see that forward spot.

Is it possible you do/did the same?

HAP

 

HAP, I think that is very possible, I know that when I'm shooting my best my eyes go to the target and the gun follows. I think moving the gun before the target comes out is 90% of an experienced shooters trouble. I'm not sure if being left eyed right handed makes a difference about that or not. I do know that when Leo and I were traveling together we would help each other and when Leo was moving his gun before the bird came out was when he had the most trouble.

It is worse with hand pulled targets because of the slow pulls but a lot of times shooters move off of their own call of pull instead of seeing the target. Simple stuff but very hard to repeat over and over, like you need to do to break a 200 straight. Brad

 

LOL. how well I know that's true! I watch all the top shooters intently in how they accomplish smoke time after time. A few of them know when I'm watching as I've told some of them about doing so. Gerald Demulling was shooting at Ben Avery during our state shoot and was just hammering targets to smoke. On 4, he made a very slight hiccup moving his gun a tad premature but overcame the small call move to break his target. I was looking at him as he came off the line and he busted out laughing when he saw me! He said, "I knew if anyone saw that move it would be you" and I said great recovery buddy!! He's a terrific shooter so that movement at the call can come at about anytime for anyone. I find some difference too in how the voice calls activate, some slower than others that must be looked out for.

As it was during the hand pulled days, the target will tell you when the bus is leaving the station was the advice I received, applies to todays targets also.

Another thing I find extremely interesting is how others say they see the bird/bead/barrel relationship when they fire at a moving target! The explanations are too many to mention but I think it's very confusing and interesting on how people perceive their vision works in shot gunning moving targets!

HAP

 

Ollie-Brad-Hap: I just removed the top rib on my early Blaser Un-single it was a STEEL Rib, and one of the stock weights, that was over a pound, am awaiting my new 4061Aluminum rib, fitted to my Blaser. It moves quickly now. I felt the same way.
Dr.longshot

 

You really think you were more consistent with that Beretta than the Model 12?

 

There is no doubt in my mind that I shot the 682 best. With it I shot the best overall scores I ever broke at the grand in 88, broke 7 consecutive 200 straights at the grand over three year period, had a long run of 1400 or so, can't remember exactly, killed several 25's at live birds, won a Clay Target and Budweiser Handicap in 89, broke several 100's in doubles at the grand, and first and foremost I know I won a lot more money with it. My measure. But I still love the model 12 and in fact have two Model 12 trap guns, one monty carlo and one straight stocked that I am gong to try just as soon as my hunting season slows up. Brad

 

Brad,did you start out shooting model12s?

 

But Brad, you won four straight handicaps with the Model 12 at the Spring Grand. Your first CTC at the Grand. You became the legend with that gun and I really don't recall you ever giving it a chance at pigeons.lol

 

Remember an old BT imp. mod barrel before the MD 12.

 

The BT came right after the model 12, I bought it off Gene Sears at the Mint for $225 and started using it when my model 12 was broken. I ended up switching to a 680 from that gun, that started me with Beretta. I think about 1981 was the year I switched. After my model 12 broke I never went back to it.

I didn't say I shot the Model 12 bad, just not as consistent as the 682. I also shot a super X-1 at doubles and pigeons and killed several 25's with it. Back then I was on the quest for the perfect all around gun, the old fear the man that shoots one gun for everything. I couldn't shoot the X-1 a lick at caps. Over the years I shot a BT-99 (good caps, bad 16's) an 1100 (one of the best pointing guns but broke to much) a 3200 ( couldn't hit a duck sitting on the water with it) an MX-8 ( sold it for more than I had in it) various Beretta's 301, 302, 390, 680, 682, 686, 687, ASE 90 and probably a couple I can't remember.

The thing about the model 12 was the recoil, back in the day I always had blood running down my cheek after a couple of days of a tournament, probably because the model 12 had too much down pitch, the Beretta's fit me better and I learned a bunch more about shooting by the time I went to them. Saying that, for a shotgun that feels right to me, nothing beats a model 12. I own about 25 different ones for hunting in all gauges but 28, I'd love one of those but I'm too cheap to pay what they cost. I hunt a lot with a 42 also and am always looking for a good deal on 42's and 20 gauges.

Brad

 

Brad,what do you think was the reason you couldn't shoot the X1 at caps?

 

I think it had to do with the balance point of the gun. I go a lot by how a gun feels to me. This story doesn't have anything to do with anything but one of my best friends was E.G. Adams from Del. EG was maybe the best pure gun pointer I ever met. He was a fantastic waterfowl shot. EG's main problem was his head, he was always looking for the perfect gun. EG used to say to me "Brad have you ever noticed the better a gun feels the worse you shoot it?" I did know what he was saying because I've had some guns that felt great and shot somewhere else than I was looking, "so yea EG you may be on to something."

One winter EG bought a K80 and was anxious to try it so when a very warm Sunday came in January EG and I headed to the trap range. You can tell it was a long time ago because Del. still had some trap ranges to go to. We signed up for 4 handicap practices. EG shot a 21 on the first one, then as anyone who knew EG it was back to the truck to adjust the stock. The next three rounds was the same story except his scores went 19, then 18, and finally a 12. As we walked back to the truck after the 4th round I looked at EG and commented "that gun should feel damn near perfect now." EG sold it and never fired it again that I know of. Brad

 

If you don't like your heavy 12 ga, do what I did, try shooting a 20 ga, more of a challenge and just as much fun. W.

 

Or do what I did today. Crank up the old Model 12 and break 50 straight. Sure opened some eyes and the puller offered to buy it!

 

I shot a 303 20ga the last 4 grands I shot. I shot it exclusively for singles and doubles for about 8 years. With two hole 46 yd targets the 7/8th oz load was plenty. I broke several 100's at 16's and 97's at doubles. I shot it twice from 27, a 94 and a 86. No recoil and only weighs about 7 lbs. Brad