I called Monica Brackman WSRC IDNR (about the numbers)

So let me get this straight if the ATA told the idnr that the grand had 1 entree they'd take the 3 bucks and say thank you, IN GIBSON WE TRUST. Brad

 

It would be a safe bet that NO ONE is going to answer "phone questions" that may harm their seat on the "Sparta" Gravy Train .....

 

Really!
That answer pushed the BS meter to the peg.
"Hey Monica, if anyone other than someone from the ata calls just play dumb.
If the real numbers get out those jokers from that AmericanTrapshooters site will be all over us. We know the numbers are cooked but what we don't want is to have to hear
WE TOLD YOU SO.
Again!

 

harryone, I doubt very much that they have no idea. Maybe Monica doesn't have that info personally, or maybe she is just tired of all the calls she is receiving on the subject.

 

Gee Bat ..... Then wouldn't the correct reply be, "I don't personally have those figures" ??????

NOT ..... "Monica's response" : "We would have no way of knowing that. We don't keep track of that. That is an ATA thing."

Maybe "Gibson" could help her out with some information ..... according to "ATA" reporting to the IRS they pay him for "40 hours per week", for who knows what .....

 

User, yeah, but as I said maybe she is getting frustrated with all the calls about something in a magazine she has never seen. Its understandable.

 

OK Bat. Trying to understand you. You are saying Monica / IDNR never saw the marketing mag / rag of the ATA that sports Monica's success in selling the WSRC. And you are saying Monica never saw "those" numbers.?

To continue your semi-hypothetical story Bat, you are implying once Monica saw the numbers she decided not to comment or to deny.

After 15 calls from the moderator and others that read the forum, and a day and a half later she answers the mod.

It's your story. Fun to read. A comedy or a trajedy? Drama maybe?

 

No FG, what I said is maybe Monica never saw "those numbers" in T&F that you were asking her about, and she has no interest in such summary ATA prints in T&F since it is not her business. I doubt IDNR bases its rent on summaries printed in T&F. I can understand why she responded to you in such a manner. Why would she want to be put in a position of proof reading an ATA magazine? (Which by the way, it appears nobody else proofreads either!)

 

You think the numbers she saw were different?

She is in charge of marketing the joint. How is that not her interest? How is the place being successful not her interest?

"We don't keep track of that." Why would the IDNR want to keep track of the money the ATA has to pay them? Why indeed?

 

Gee Bat, you're starting to make sense. I must slap myself immediately!

 

As I read the quote up at the top. The question to her was whether the number was accurate. Being that it is supposedly off by 100% wouldn't the answer just be no?

Where there 6,000 shooters? That would have been the number of shooters needed. How can she not know?

This is her area of expertise. She is the director of the WSRC.

Her job is too help sell camping spots, vendor spots etc. Isn't this a common question? How many will be there? How many last year?

 

She did not have to see the numbers. Hearing the numbers should have made her chuckle. She is on a sinking ship and the band keeps playing.

 

Who thinks Monica was not at the shoot in Sparta. She was even at the SCTP Nationals at the Cardinal Center.

Who thinks Monica has no idea what is going on?

 

You guys give the IDNR way too much credit. It is possible. jmho

 

Could it be she has a lot on her agenda this week. The SCTP Collegiate shoot is next week at the Cardinal Center.

 

Have you guys forgotten that Monica represented the IDNR at the big jump and shout when ATA President Morris and Monica and a few politicians waved copies of the MOU in front of the TV stations. This is IDNR's "hands-on-person."

IDNR put a bright person in that position that has a marketing background. She drove all the way to Columbus to lobby for the SCTP to return to Sparta.

Now tell me this bright lady does not have a clue about the numbers at the Grand.

 

Yeah, yeah! Bet ya dont like Hillary either,

 

COULD NOT BE PUT CLEARER !!!

 

Having met and had a short discussion with the young lady personally, and while she admitted she's fairly new to the trapshooting game and IDNR management, it was my impression that she pays attention and is adept at getting answers to things she may not know. Her position requires her to know the total receipts for GAH entries and I expect she does and has reported it to her superiors.

Personally, I would have asked her a followup request for the total receipts from entries. Perhaps I would have gotten the same reply to which my advise to her would have been that if she doesn't wish answer a simple question, it is imperative she learns to come up with much better responses.

 

Well then, since she must be aware of the actual entry numbers, the conclusion must be that she is getting frustrated with all of Joe's calls about an erroneous summary in a magazine that has nothing to do with IDNR getting paid. If it was important to the rent process, I would think she would have shown more interest. But it is not important because it is highly unlikely that it is something used in calculating the rent. That is most likely just an internal spreadsheet ATA uses for it's own comparison's.

 

There you go again Bat ..... stating things as factual ..... STOP your continued BULL-SHIT or put some PROOF in your posts .....

Show HOW the "ATA" pays for the "Grand", if you know enough to keep stating things as FACT.

 

User, if you think IDNR accepts a multi-year spreadsheet comparison published in T&F as their basis for calculation of the rent, fine. I am going to believe they require something a little more tailored to just the current year activity, and I would be amazed if they don't audit it in some way on a real time basis. The state may be in fiscal crisis, but I think they are likely up on auditing contract rentals.

Why don't you demand those implying the IDNR uses that T&F summary as a basis for the rents to prove it? I'd say that sounds a bit far-fetched.

 

Bat, If I "think" something I state it as "I think" ..... You stated, "has nothing to do with IDNR getting paid" ..... a bit different, don't ya think ..... Do you know the difference in "those implying the IDNR uses that T&F summary" and "has nothing to do with IDNR getting paid" ?????

If you choose to be the "Pivot Man" in the "ATA" "Circle Jerk", that is your choice ..... but trying to play "word games" on their behalf makes "one think less of the author" .....

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pivot man ..... "A person who is the center of attention in a Circle Jerk. Usually on his or his knees pivoting around to service the circle jerkers[sic]."

 

Monica was indeed at the SCTP shoot in July, I had never met her before but we had about a twenty minute discussion on several topics. I gave her my best unsolicited advice. I told her to look for a new job as soon as she could and that the best thing I could say about the ATA and EC is that they are practiced liars. I also told her I gave her to about the end of October before she saw the light that the EC and ATA powers could not be trusted, I hope she's bailed by now because she seems way too nice of a person to be hooked up with this bunch. Brad

 

Did she seem agreeable to your suggestions/observations, or did she seem surprised at your candor?

 

I think she was surprised that I'd tell her to her face but she obviously knew who I was and My position on Sparta and the ATA in general, and remember we were at the Cardinal Center and anyone with eyes could see the difference between there and Sparta. She came from a minor league baseball team and isn't a shooter or emotional attached to the Sparta facility. I got the impression that it is just a job to her a little closer to home. I hope she listened for her sake. Brad

 

Directions to Sparta from Ohio, Go West about 7.5 Hours, till you get a wind from the South that smells bad, Then turn South until it is absolutely Terrible, and you step in that Slippery Smelling Goo, next to a Horse Style Barn w/Sign TRAPSHOOTERS HOF, you are there, Now What?

GB.......................................DLS

 

Fortunately not all here feel that way!

 

Dr Longshot:
There are way too many comedians out of work right now.. As my mother use to tell me, act your age and you will get more respect.

Ron Burdick

 

Have you guys considered that Monica may have been out getting her hair done?

 

FYI

I received a copy of the answer to a FOIA request that asked for the total number of GAH entries the ATA submitted to the IDNR. The response from the FOIA Officer also contained the below spreadsheet.

The IDNR seems to prefer to provide a $ amount instead of the total number of entries. Using the $ amount provided, it appears the IDNR was paid $3 for 29,913 total entries.

Sure hope Monica reads AT.com so she knows the answer if asked the question again in the future.

​

 

Great opportunity to get the record straight which is something no delegate, including mine, wants to do.

Monica and her org, IDNR, get one set of numbers and the ATA members get another set. Proof is in the documents above and the published report by Trap & Field.

The statement from Monica as to whether they, IDNR, don't know the numbers is obviously not true. Fact is the IDNR demands the numbers.

"We would have no way of knowing that." -- proven false.

"We don't keep track of that."-- if they did not keep track of it. They would get the fake numbers too. Sucks to just be a member.

 

History Buff !!!

Great of you to seek, and provide us with these FACTS.

When are YOU going to run for Delegate ???

We need someone like you and Paul in those positions to kick some other Delegates in the BUTT and do what they were elected to do.

Thanks Buddy !

 

Last I heard we still have Freedom of speech, I expected as much from you.

 

Just Joe,

The next time you speak with Monica Brackman of the World Shooting & Recreational Complex, will you ask her to help us understand the numbers?

The ATA shows 30,175 total entries on their 2016 GAH spread sheet which is given to the IDNR. At $3/entry, that's $90,525.

The ATA pays the IDNR $89,739 for 29,913 entries. Wonder if the IDNR asked the reason for the shortage.

I'm having trouble understanding the reported number of shooters the ATA lists by event on their spreadsheet.

The total entries at the top of each Event score-sheet doesn't match the spreadsheet. Every event is off by a few entries.

Except the spreadsheet for Event 10 shows 1,394 entries but the Event score-sheet states 1,403. But, if you count the number of shooters on the score-sheet you'll get 1,370.

The spreadsheet shows 1,943 entries for Event 21. The Event score-sheet has 1,937. In counting the number of shooters (42 per page) I came up with 1,934.

The ATA paid the IDNR 262 less entries than they report on their spreadsheet. Why?

In most of the Events, there were shooters who entered but did not shoot. Their scores are 0 (zero). Perhaps the ATA felt that because they did not shoot, they didn't owe the $3 to the IDNR for their entry, even though the ATA collected it when each shooter cashiered. I counted 213 shooters who had zeros for their score, far less than 262.

I'm sure there must be a logical explanation. I'll wait for one of our Delegates to provide an answer.

HB

 

HB writes:

I'm sure there must be a logical explanation. I'll wait for one of our Delegates to provide an answer.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I just read this to my wife, and her statement was:

"I hope this History Buff fellow doesn't hold his breath too long"....LOL

 

Could it be they Pre-Registered but did not shoot and pay entries? Would that hold their positions?

GB...................................DLS

 

Do we think Monica will show and post an answer?

 

NO

 

Transparency is not one of the things most organizations have going for them, the State of Illinois much like the United States Government , ATA, WSRC etc. all have this in common ... I don't know nuttin, have not seen anything, do not know who you are talking about , what shoot, where, ? total numbers of what ..? was anyone seriously hurt ..? If you like your insurance, you can keep your insurance, etc ... ZIP it Monica, IF YOU KNOW WHATS GOOD FOR YOU ... So the story goes .... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Never forget that famous statement to me !

Membership will be notified on a "Need To Know Basis".

I guess this is one of those times !?!?!?!!!!!

 

I am happy to report the Ms. Brackman was kine enought to give me the following answer in an email :

"You are correct in the 262 difference. The reported 30,175 entries is the number of shooters registered to shoot during the 2016 Grand American Tournament."

"The 29,913 number (and IDNR payment) reflects the actual number of participants that had recorded scores."

"Thank you for your inquiry."

I truly appreciated her timely reponse and gave here a few more details for her to think about regarding the verification of Event entries vs. actual shooters. I was unalbe to find the correct mathematical solution to come up with the numbers provided by the ATA.

HB

 

Question for anyone....

IF there were 30,175 entries, do we assume these entries PAID the $3.00 fee to be paid to the IDNR ???

If this was the case, and the ATA paid for 29,913 entries, what happened to the extra $3.00 per entry that was paid with no recorded scores ?

It is my understanding that there was a NO REFUND rule in place.

One person who paid would have been the late Glenn Lash. Now did the ATA refund his entry to his widow ?

I am just sort of wondering how these extra payments that were collected shook out, and who has them ?

$786.00 unaccounted for ?

 

The way it was laid out, its supposed to be $3.00 per entry on each event, not $3.00 per person who classifies ... I would think a refund would be in order if a person has a legitimate reason beyond their control which obviously Mr Glenn Lash did ... It's truly amazing what money (greed) can bring out in some people ... Stealing from the blind or picking the pocket of a corpse is the lowest of the low ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

The entry fees for Glenn Lash were totally refunded to his widow. Lay that one to rest!

 

Thank you Ole for letting us know.

 

The 2017 Grand is scheduled for Aug. 2nd thru Aug. 12 at Sparta. Maybe they will figure out how to corrcctly report the numbers by then.

 

The New and Improved ATA tells people the numbers they want them to hear (think), not what they are in reality ... Thanks for the update Ollie, was the only right thing to do ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Strange stuff here????????? HB quoting Monica....

And after many phone calls to Monica we got the following statement.
"We would have no way of knowing that. We don't keep track of that. That is an ATA thing."

How does Monica reconcile these two statements?

 

According to the IDNR website that has not been scheduled and or approved with them yet. There are some pistol shoot events schedule at the WSRC. No trapshoots yet?

 

I have NO doubt that the GAH will be held, by hook or by crook, at Sparta in the foreseeable future.

The "Powers" will see to this one way or another.

Perhaps when OBAMA pardons Blagovitch, the two of them will pony up some extra dough and call the place "Their Legacy".