SCTP National Shoot can Cardinal Center handle the shooters?

The registration has been off the chart. Can the CC handle the shooters and spectators?

 

They will handle it. Roger C.

 

If it can be handled they will handle it ... The folks at The Cardinal Center are like the little bunny (energizer) that just keeps on, keeping on ... I anticipate the kids and all involved with the SCTP will have a great time and be coming back for more ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Old thread and what is the answer? Did they handle it? Enough room?

 

I was there Friday, and found a parking spot everytime I moved. Saw nothing but happy people, but it was busier than the State shoot.

Some complaints on stone dust, and the rain caused some water holes on the cart path and mud that Cardinal will have to address.

 

The CC only had 4 months to get ready with the construction. Take into consideration the winter months in OH are not great for outside work.

The SCTP must be happy with with what was and understand how things could be improved.

 

I've heard the "fee" to the SCTP is much less at Cardinal. Anyone know for sure?

 

The fee per athlete for the 200 singles event only was $84 this year at the Cardinal.
Last year at Sparta the fee for the 200 singles event only was $72.

Here's some more numbers straight from the SCTP Weekly "Rangetime Newsletter."

Total number of athletes for the SCTP and SASP events combined= 2,369.( About 400 less than last year.)
Many athletes participate in more than 1 event.
See total event entry numbers below.
34 States were represented. ( about the same as last year)

876,000 total all competition clay targets.
85,000 side game targets.

Approximately 1,200 entries for the " Last Man Standing" (Annie Oakley) event.

Total Clay Target event entries 4,376. 74 more than last year.
Total SASP event entries 530. up 174 from last year.

Even though there weren't as many total athletes in attendance as last year, more of them shot more events.

All from our team had a good time, though most of them stated they would rather shoot at Sparta but would come back to the Cardinal if it is held there again next year.

 

2015 SCTP target fees..
Trap – 200 targets - $80 per shooter* (includes ATA fees)
Skeet – 200 targets - $80 per shooter* (includes NSSA fees)
Sporting Clays – 200 targets - $115 per shooter* (includes NSCA fees)

2016 SCTP target fees..
Trap – 200 targets - $85 per shooter* (includes ATA fees)
Skeet – 200 targets - $85 per shooter* (includes NSSA fees)
Sporting Clays – 200 targets - $118 per shooter* (includes NSCA fees)

 

Do these prices get set by the SCTP or the shooting complex ?

I don't know a lot about how the SCTP is run, and only asking a question.

 

Cant figure out why they pay ATA fees.

I doubt the CC sets the fees for the SCTP kids.

 

The SCTP sets the price for the targets. The cost of the targets to the SCTP is set by the host club.

 

Fees were set by the Scholastic Shooting Sports Foundation's SCTP leadership. Remember, they are well subsidized throughout the year according to the coaches I talked with. And the Midway USA (Larry Potterfield) matching grant makes it very affordable to all. I too was slightly upset at the cost to shoot the programs until some coaches straightened me out. I'm only repeating what I was told and trust that the coaches would be hollering pretty loudly if they thought the kids were being overcharged.

 

because they are registered. Personally, I think the ATA should waive the daily fees on SCTP events. In fact, I see no reason for the targets to be registered at all.

The ATA gave back approximately $12,000 to the SCTP in 2015.

 

http://sssfonline.org/2016-sctpsasp-national-championships-are-in-the-books/

Nice story.

 

HB, what does this mean. I'm a coach of an SCTP team. We are not subsized one penny. We go out and solicit donations etc. But I wouldn't necessarily consider that a subsidy.

I thought the target cost for the 200 trap targets was absurdly high.

 

Personally, I think all fees by the ATA, NSSA, and NSCA should be waived and considered to be part of promotion ... These kids are the future of shooting sports and should be given a welcome by not charginh excessive fees ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

According to the coaches I spoke with they said they receive money during the year which I suspect comes from the Midway USA grant and they also have their kids sell promotional tickets or ads and do fundraisers. They indicated that much of the shooting during the year is pretty much paid for. At least that's the way I understood them. Perhaps I misunderstood.

I did too and mentioned it. That's when a coach told me they were subsidized during the year for shooting and ammunition. Perhaps coaches must request the subsidy, I just don't know, but none of the coaches I spoke with were upset over the high cost of targets. It's been 10 years since I was active with the SCTP and that was before the Midway USA matching funds program.

Perhaps other SCTP coaches can set us all straight on the funding issue. The Midway USA grant money is going to help youth shooting somewhere.

 

I think subsidized is the wrong word.
How a team funds their shooting is totally up to them. Some teams do very little fundraising and have the kids pay for 100% of the costs. Some teams work hard to grow their Midway accounts so that they can apply for grants based on their principle. Some teams apply for grants from the NRA to HELP pay for things like ammo and target fees. Some look to local businesses for help.

We work very hard and even with all our fundraising our kids are still responsible to pay about 25-35% of the cost.

 

Thank you Roger. I used the wrong word and actually meant that it was a matching funds program. I knew the total cost was reduced for the kids but I never knew that they were able to get it down to the low percentage you cited. Appreciate the explanation as I'm sure others are as well.

HB

 

For a team to have a Midway USA account they have to have the 501C3 tax exempt status to start with. ( Can be a little time consuming to get.)
They provide many items such as guns, knives, binoculars, laptops or Ipads, etc. for the team to raffle.
Each program has certain parameters to follow.
Several we have participated in had a required or requested amount they would like you to raise in your raffle.

An example is a few years ago, Mr. Potterfield commissioned Winchester to build 100, 4 rifle sets. They were called "The Perfect Rifle Battery" All were Model 70 Super Grades in 4 different calibers. 22-250 ( which I believe at that time had never been offered in a M70) a .270 , a .300 Win Mag and a .458 Win. We applied to receive one of the 4-gun sets. We were asked to raise $10,000 in our raffle/ auction.
We sold 100, $100 tickets at a registered shoot and had our 10 grand pretty quickly. We were allowed to keep $5,000 or half of what we raised. The other half was deposited into our Midway account and was matched 3-1. $20,000 went into our account and all it cost us was the price to print the raffle tickets!

Once a year the team can apply for up to 5% of the total of your team account.

SCTP shoots typically have Midway money for event winners.

We use our fund money to pay entry fees at the state and national shoots we attend. That saves each kid about $700 for the season since we shoot both SCTP and AIM state and national shoots plus several other state and local events. We also do a couple raffles and we get a few donations.


Still, our kids pay for practice rounds ($5/) and for their own ammunition.

 

Excellent Barnett, thanks for your detailed account. I'm learning more on how the SCTP has advanced every day.

I remember some years back the Midway USA deal was offered to the ATA also but for some reason they turned it down. One of our Past Presidents told me it was thought not to be in the best interests of the ATA but gave no details as to why.

 

typical ATA answer

GB...............................DLS

 

Yeah, that would be a tragedy if the ATA got involved in something that financially benefited the youth shooters and not them.

 

They probably could not stand the ACCOUNTABILITY TERMS in the contract. No way to work the skim without getting caught. Then a qualified CPA would be doing the audits. Roger C.

 

The picture that HistoryBuff posted of me talking to Mr. Potterfield wondering what we were talking about I'll tell you. Mr. Potterfield was telling me that back when the grand first moved to Sparta he met with the EC, I can't remember if just one or all of them, and offered to give 1 cent for every ATA registered target if the ATA would just raise the cost of targets 1 cent (a dollar a hundred) and put all the money into youth shooting. I think back then the ATA shot about 86 million targets a year, so Mr. Potterfield was offering $860,000 to the ATA for kids. He told me that the EC refused and told him it wasn't in the best interests of the ATA. His words straight to my ear. Brad

 

You are now the second person to tell me that the ATA refused Mr. Porterfield's offer.

Sad, they can piss away money on guns, and free lodging, but won't accept an offer for the kids.

 

The ATA would of added fees such as posting, office staff, records, EC cost of attending, postage, office supplies, staples, toilet paper, heat and AC< by the time they got done with the $860,000 it would of been whittled down to about $38.16 so it would not of been worth it in the long run except for those on the EC and the administrators ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Was it Mr Potterfield's intention that the ATA require all member clubs across the country to impose a $1.00 per hundred fee that would have to be paid to the ATA. The ATA would then, in turn, 'donate' that money to the Midway USA Foundation with Mr Potterfield basically matching that donation? If this was the process, how was this money supposed to be used? Would it have been available to all youth shooters or just those that belonged to an AIM team?

Would this forced donation have set well with the ATA shooters? Maybe the ATA felt it wasn't in their best interest to force their membership to donate. Maybe the ATA would have wanted the money available to all youth shooters and not just a select few that belong to AIM teams.

Maybe Mr Potterfield only told you what he wanted you to hear and not the whole story.

 

Iowa guy, I didn't ask for any details but I took it that the ATA would have to add a dollar per 100 targets then the Midway foundation would match it. I think it would have worked like the foundation does with the SCTP teams now. AIM was never mentioned, it wasn't even around back when the offer was made to the EC. You should look into the Midway's foundation and how they match funds. I know that sometimes it has been 3 and 4 to 1 with 5% drawable every year. Some SCTP teams here in Ohio have amassed over a quarter million dollars in just the past 4 years in their accounts. I doubt if the ATA had taken up the Potterfield's offer that money would have been available to the individual teams like it is today. I'd say that the Potterfield's figured out how to get the money into shooting without the ATA.

I think the ATA high muckety mucks don't care about young shooters other than as a revenue resource and a way to keep Sparta open. I'd be real surprised if the SCTP goes back to Sparta. Brad

 

The ATA once added $1.00 to each entry(forced) and all shooters to contribute to a re location fund that eventually got used to buy Pat Traps, not relocation ... I am not aware of anyone who was notified that the money they paid in for relocation was then going to be used for something else prior to, which for all practical purposes was false representation to the members ... If it had been a voluntary thing most people would of probably given it being as it was only a dollar, but that totally pissed off a bunch of people and then they saw their money go Sparta, Illinois and that made them even more against it ... I feel that all shooters should try to support the SCTP and AIM programs if they are able to do so because these kids are quite possibly the future of shooting sports ... I do not like the fact that the ATA Muscled their way into the mix and force the issues of the targets having to be registered and the kids having to join the ATA ... Personally, I feel this should be used as a way to promote shooting and not way to make money of the Kids ... The changes over the years has not been a good reflection on the ATA which is more than likely why they cannot retain members as they once did ... The ATA has been turned into a Cash Cow for the Big wigs (EC, ED, and some of the BOD) and that was never supposed to be the intended purpose ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

How did the ATA muscle their way into the SCTP? By muscled, do you mean the ATA convinced the SCTP to force the kids to join the ATA and then the ATA giving back a certain percentage of the membership fees? Seems to me that the SCTP might have approached the ATA with this scheme as a source of revenue for the SCTP. I do agree with you, there is absolutely no need for the ATA to be involved in the SCTP, other than a revenue stream for both entities.

Seems like a legitimate relocation expense to me. Were new traps going to just magically appear at a new facility? Put a side the No Bid deal and the allegations of missing traps. A new facility would need traps.

I'm familiar with the Midway Foundation's program as I'm an SCTP coach. Most of the matches are 1:1, but yes there are some multiple deals and special incentives. It's a great program for those teams that have built up a large balance.

 

The ATA forced the issue of having the kids register the targets, to my way of thinking this should be part of the promotion of the sport and not placed on the kids or their parents ... The ATA does nothing if its not advantages to the ATA to be able to feed the fat cats and give out new guns to those who volunteer (so they say) ...

Legitimate relocation expense but not claim it to be for one thing and then it be used for another with no mention to any of the members except the chosen ones ... If you ask me for a donation , I expect it to be used for a specific purpose not what ever you choose unless it is not specified and then do not force me to pay it ... Honor and Integrity are long gone within the confines of the ATA so it should not of come as a surprise ... If it was not such a big deal why are (were ) so many people pissed off about it and then to take them to Sparta was like pouring salt into the wound ... Don't care where they came from but relocation is not new traps ... This cannot be justified, well maybe if you are one of the EC or BOD who reaps the rewards you can justify it, not me ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

I don't know how the ATA forced the issue of registering SCTP targets. What leverage did they have? Maybe they did by threatening the loss of using Sparta (ATA owned traps). If that was the case I'd like to see the SCTP stay at the CC and tell the ATA to pound sand.

As far as relocation expenses go, you can define it as narrowly as you want, but the relocation expense had to include land, buildings and, yes, traps.

 

I don't think the ATA could stop anyone using the traps. It is a shared use item, I think. If the facility is used with the IDNR's blessing the traps come with it.

 

Iowa Guy,
The extra dollar was specific that it was to be used for relocation (purchase) to new home grounds (before Sparta) which pretty much tells me it was to be used for the purchase of replancement property to replace Vandalia ... I do know it sure ticked off more shooters than it made happy, that's for sure ... I have talked to people who were annual members for over 40 years who have long since left the ATA and won't be going back ... So, if that's okay with you , its fine with me also ... If you have nothing to hide, "HIDE NOTHING" ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

The ATA and the Potterfields also had a meeting at the Potterfield's farm outside of Columbia Missouri about 4 years ago.
Once again the ATA id not accept the proposal by Mr. and Mrs. Potterfield.

Scuttlebutt going around that they are talking again.