Could the SCTP Hurt the ATA?

Shocked at the question.

Do the math - - Assume the SCTP can eventually reach 85% of the future young shooters. Is that good?

So all these shooters could be longtime members of the ATA right? The SCTP has a great marketing plan. Great people. Great leadership. Imagine them having 5,000 in a shoot. The Cardinal Center would build it.

Ooops that could be bad.........
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Use Ohio as an example. 1,000 shooters from Ohio take the line for the SCTP championship. Those Ohio shooters will shoot skeet, trap, sporting clays and 5 stand. They could even be exposed to pistol and rifle shooting thru the SCTP.

Now if you are looking into the future you may see how that sucks.

After 3 years of SCTP high school and 2 years of SCTP College you realize that trap is boring. Skeet just a little more boring. No money in trapshooting. No money in skeet shooting. Everyone is tied and the ribbons are worthless. They see trapshooting is a game of perfection and skeet is twice as bad.
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So that leaves that 15% that never participated in the SCTP. That group probably is compiled mostly of blue collar type shooters that had parents that could not afford the sport. The ATA has a history of kicking that group to the curb.

Gee that sucks.

 

How long does the average person shoot registered trap?

 

Not long enough to be any good!

 

Statman,

The SCTP has already hurt the ATA.

10 years ago when I got involved with both the SCTP and then a year or so later the ATA/ AIM the targets for SCTP were registered. Then up until last year they weren't. Only the singles targets are registered now.

2 years ago the SCTP started doubles and handicap events. Not registered.

A SCTP member only has to join the ATA, not AIM.

The SCTP is growing by leaps and bounds where the AIM program is in my opinion, kind of leveling off.

The SCTP is the path to the Olympics.

The SCTP has better scholarship availability.

The SCTP has the Midway Foundation. The ATA doesn't and wanted nothing to do with it.

The SCTP is all about the kids.

I don't know what else to say.

IMHO yes, the SCTP will and has hurt the ATA.

 

If the ATA was smart, they would give honorary memberships to the AIM and SCTP kids until they reach a certain age as promotional/ conditional memberships ... The sport can't grow if the association that is supposed to motivate and promote people into being members ignores their existence ... If not for all of the little grass roots clubs and those members the ATA would be toast ... If the ATA gets hurt by any thing or any organization it will be because they let it happen ... The ATA is not nearly as big as it once (based on membership) was and is on a slippery slide heading no place ... Eliminate the presidents (new) gun and use that money to fund the kids memberships ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

I'm not an ATA hater, but they have done several things that IMHO doesn't help the kids.

The kids are the future of any shooting sport.

I wish that both the SCTP and the ATA/ AIM would get closer together. By closer I mean by more than the ATA just registering targets. Personally, registered targets don't mean anything unless a participant is chasing All American status.

I would imagine that the teams are keeping pretty close tabs on their shooters anyway. I know we do.

 

Pumpgun

You missed the point of the post tho I do not dispute anything you wrote.

The point statman is making is the more the SCTP exposes kids to a more challenging games, unlike our dumbed down rules, the more it will hurt the ATA's style of registered shooting. The kids, say statman, will be experiencing all the shooting activity making it easier to compare the sports.

Statman may have a point. jmho

 

AIM is trying.
They added Skeet and Sporting Clays to the AIM Nationals

 

Wont that have the same result?

 

That will expose kids to sporting clays also right? Similar outcome. I do not see why the SCTP needs the ATA.

 

The ATA hurts the ATA. How many SCTP shooters will shoot when mom and dad are no longer around? Just wondering not knocking the program.

 

Why do the singles targets need to be registered? How much do they pay for that and why?

 

To answer both questions, Statman, I don't know why they have to be registered and I don't know what they pay for that.

Langer,
I don't know if adding Skeet and Sporting Clays at the AIM Nationals will do anything. Not all AIM teams participate in SCTP and not all SCTP teams participate in AIM. I personally think the ATA added the 2 events to give the teams that couldn't or wouldn't attend the SCTP Nationals at the Cardinal Center.
Also I think that adding the 2 extra events before the singles is an ulterior motive for keeping more kids from staying to shoot the Grand.

The AIM national used to be the Saturday and Sunday between Preliminary week and Grand week. Then a 14 year old walked out of there with the $100,000. The next year the AIM Nationals were scheduled for the Monday and Tuesday before the Preliminary events started on Wednesday.

I don't know how it will work. Our kids only shoot trap so it doesn't affect us.

 

Some, is that not better then none?

 

Some is better than none.

 

The ATA should be thinking about blending shooters from other shooting venues into and to include trapshooting, but instead they are worried about the "Glock " guy getting in the way of a shoot that is may not even happen, as if this makes real sense ... I seriously doubt the SCTP or AIM organizations have any desire or intend to hurt the ATA in any way, shape, or form but the ATA should in fact be trying to attract those shooters and make them want to be a part of the Association for the good of all those involved ... The SCTP organization didn't sit around and wait to get shut out, they did something about it when it became obvious there were problems at the WSRC in Sparta ... I call that Perfect timing and good planning on their behalf for the preservation of their shooting organization and to benefit the people involved (the Kids) ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

The ATA is in a pickle here. I agree with the OP. These kids are not dumb. They will soon be the old "Penalty A" shooters FG rants about.

If the ATA does not make the game more interesting ( and they wont) the org is doomed.

 

People who do not condone or think the same way as some others are labeled as ATA haters, nothing could be farther from the truth ... Its not the ATA that people do not like, its those who are running the operation and driving members away ... The ED, EC, and many of the BOD get a free ride on the members dime but they say they do it for the "Love of the Game" , the game must be lets see who can get reimbursed the most when the checks get cut ... The EC is nothing more than a line that they get in to collect a free gum, again on the members dime ... Why should anyone who is on the EC, ED, or BOD selectively get paid for any part of what they do if they do it for the Love of the Game ..? I know how they operate, been there and watched it first hand, they are crooks, liars and cheaters (those are the good things about them ) ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

The ATA is a cash cow for the SCTP. The SCTP requires the kids to register targets to compete at the State and National levels. In return the ATA kicked back around $12,000 to the SCTP in 2015.

I'm a coach of an SCTP team and a lifetime member of the ATA. I see absolutely no value in the ATA/SCTP relationship for the kids. All it does is cost them $12 more to participate in the program. Personally I believe the ATA is doing this to increase their membership numbers. Possibly to help hide the decreasing active numbers with a bunch of kids that will never shoot more than 200 targets a year while they're in school.

My son shoots for Iowa State University. We had a discussion a while ago regarding which event was the most popular amongst his team mates (they shoot them all). Skeet was the overwhelming favorite, followed by SC and then trap. He said they found trap to be boring, not because it was too easy (they picked skeet as their favorite), but because it's not as social as the other events.

 

"Promotion" would be a good time for letting them compete (SCPT) at no cost to them and give them an added incentive to join at a later date if so inclined ... The younger generation is what many of the shooting sports depend on to progress and move on into the future ... The ATA is supposedly supposed to promote trapshooting, Barry walking around in a shirt and ATA hat haven't seen anything that impresses me ... I give a lot of credit to the Kids and Coaches for hanging in there and keeping it together ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Isn't the whole purpose of exposing these kids to the shooting sports "two" sided? Of course the obvious motive is to secure a future of the shooting sports in all disciplines, but what about the kids? That's the real reason for SCTP. We are teaching them about gun safety, and learning about the differences in all five clay disciplines and how they are shot. We get all tied up in the politics of ATA and AIM and the things going on at the Grand and how we "hate" Sparta and Illinois. But we lose track of what we should be doing, thinking about the kids. We are keeping them off the streets or sitting at home watching the "Brain Strangler" or in the corner on the computer looking at who knows what. I've yet to see one of these young shooters that hasn't smiled at me and said "hi" or walked up to me and shook my hand after a event shoot and told me it was good to shot with you. Yes, there is the extra money thing that looms over ever parent's head about cost, but this would not be my first choice if money was an issue for my child's hobby or entertainment. Remember it's about the future of our sport and the kids that participate in the sport we all love and nothing else.
Flinch King - Brian Seibert

 

It is easy to see how people think "we lose track" ... but try to let it sink in that on the current path of the leadership, there will SOON be no more "ATA" for "the kids".

Again ... from a report dated "July 19, 2010"

"What do we learn from this analysis? The “bottom line” is the ATA lost nearly $400,000 in Net Operating
Income from Continuing Operations (NOICO) in 2009. In the last four years, the ATA has lost almost $1.4
million in NOICO. My guess is that we will lose another really big number in 2010. The losses are being
masked in the audited financial statements by income from lead reclamation, investment income on the
ATA’s “endowment,” as well as the “mark-to-market” gains (losses). Said differently, if not for the
prudence of a prior generation of shooters and lead reclamation from Vandalia, we would be eating into
our endowment at an alarming rate! As it is, we are diminishing the value of the endowment by nearly
fully consuming the earnings thereon. If the trend continues, we will liquidate the ATA."

Are we "thinking about the kids" ... if we continue to turn our back to ... "If the trend continues, we will liquidate the ATA." ???????

The "ATA" wants people to think it is personal attacks ... but, it is taking the WARNING serious. GREED that will "liquidate the ATA", is NOT a "Love of the Sport", it is GREED.

 

I agree User 1, but if the ATA folded tomorrow I bet I could still shoot trap this weekend. It's like if the BASS circuit would go under, people would still go fishing for bass. If the ATA leadership is losing money then they need to fix that and go on or shut their doors, it's no different for me owning my own business. Let's teach the kids what we have enjoyed for many years and let things take there course. I can guarantee you that if the ATA goes away there will be some other organization move in. A perfect example of this is the guys that shoot skeet at Wright Pat would kick everybody butts that come there to shoot NSSA. I asked them why aren't you guys shooting this week in the tournament? Their response, why pay more to shoot targets. We'll save our money and that way we will have more money to shoot more targets. And they do! With their friends and children. We're make this way too complicated, it's for the kids. The SCTP is a avenue to teach our younger shooters the fundamentals of the trap discipline plan and simple.

 

And, I agree with .... "if the ATA folded tomorrow I bet I could still shoot trap this weekend."

I have said several times .... Trapshooting does not NEED the "ATA", but the "ATA" NEEDS Trapshooting.

"We get all tied up in the politics of ATA" .... because it is doing harm to non-"ATA" Trapshooting. The "politics" is a cancer that eats at the health of all Trapshooting.

"We're make this way too complicated, it's for the kids." .... A "Trapshooting" friend of mine is a "coach" of his young son's Soccer Team. They DO NOT keep score in practice or against other Teams. They are not even directed that scoring is the objective. They DO NOT even keep track of how many players are on the field, or teach them what they are supposed to be doing. They ALL get to participate with no objective. The point is, should we want "youth shooters" to have organized competition available for them, as we have had .... or should we accept the direction that the "youth" is now being offered.