Merlo Update From Springfield

When Kotowski resigned last year many felt a sigh of relief thinking the continuing onslaught of anti gun fervor would quickly diminish. What they forgot was the comittee formed in 2014 to find a way to relieve the state of any more expense regarding the World Shooting Complex. Currently the findings include a 50 million dollar expense to build the facility which is now deemed unrecoverable. The last ten years of operation has cost the state an average of 1.9 million per year which will begin to show increases as the facility now needs expensive maintainence. The facility has a bond debt expense of 400,000 per year for over 20 more years. While the initial investment was planned to bring in a minimum net profit of 5 million per year it has never provided any profit. Revenues have declined year over year and expenses are rising annually so the determination has been made that Illinois must divest itself of the World Shooting Complex and its expense. As of today several entities have looked at the WSC but none have expressed interest given the financial recovery the state is looking for. In future years there may be events at the facility but they will most likely be offered by a new owner. The IDNR may want to offer rental options but anything proposed would demand a net profitable return to the state coffers. All sides are in agreement no more state funds will be invested in the World Shooting Complex and the state should divest itself of the facility as soon as possible. Let's see if Merlo is right once again.

 

Dang! Now who has to pay that darned electric bill???

 

"That electric bill" is a state wide problem, not just a WSRC problem. All the wishing in the world won't change that fact!

 

You're not paying attention. The electric is really a small part of the bigger problem of the state investing no more money in Sparta. It's all on the ATA now.

 

Your the one who isn't paying attention Seitz. That response was only to the post above mine!

 

Damn.... I knew it!!!

 

It's pretty interesting to watch the lemmings like Grntitan, hunter44, duffer, little Donny, and others jumping for joy over how well the ATA is doing but I can't wait until, say around the middle of May, when there is no Grand at the WSC or there is a grand and a check of minimum six figures needs to be stroked to the state. Then relax until September and watch the ATA trying everything to put the spin on they're six figure loss. Perhaps they might be fine, perhaps it'll be the "Signature Sponsor" that will take the big hit. I'm just wondering how big that hit will be as I doubt the huge crowd needed will not even come close to materializing.

 

If all your hopes and dreams of the ATA and Sparta come true, what would you ever do with yourself?

 

Nothing different duffer, I'll still be shooting. Probably even shooting the Grand at its new location.

 

Seitz9010,
If the ATA can get by with anything in the 6 figure range it will appear to be a deal ... Quick check the numbers and multiple millions come into view really fast depending on what debt has to be assumed and covered by the ATA ... The ATA will be required and agree to pay more than they can possibly recover, all things combined ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

There is a meeting on the schedule for today (02-04-16) for all of the Principles involved in the State budget crisis ... Posted on the State web site ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

How can this be on the ATA? It ATA owns nothing but a Voided Lease Agreement, that's a valuable document to the ATA, Walk a way paper to me. They voided it not the ATA

Gary Bryant............................Dr.longshot

 

Gary,

The ATA won't be responsible to pay for any debt of others. Also, the lease is not voided.

 

At this juncture, it would behoove the ATA to simply walk away from the entire Sparta situation. Let the State of Ill and the IDNR hold the bag full of their own unpaid bills, debts, etc. It's time for the ATA to take their toys and get out of there. The longer the ATA waits, and the closer it gets to Grand time the more leverage the State and the IDNR will have over the ATA. When it's too late to do anything about it, the State and the IDNR will drop the hammer on the ATA and let them know that if they want to do any shooting there they will have to pay all the bills associated with bringing the WSRC up to date. Meanwhile it's not costing the State, or the IDNR anything to keep going as it is since they have no money to pay for anything anyway. They have the ATA by the short hairs and the ATA is letting it happen.... It's probably going to get ugly, and expensive, very soon....

 

If the "ATA" would "simply walk away from the entire Sparta situation" ... what would happen to the "year-round vendor" ????

That is asking someone to do the job they are being paid for, and do personal harm at the same time.

 

Vendor's should have seen the wreck coming. I was against the AIG, GM, and Banks bailouts too.

 

Gipson would not like that and why?

He has a business on the WSRC campus.

He has a business in Sparta.

He is a member of the HOF board that built a $2.1 million building with his picture in it. Cant abandon that.

He is the director of the ATA. Moving the ATA office would mean a relocation for him.

I am not saying he has a conflict of interest.

 

If this is your business ....

http://www.gipsongunsonline.com/about-us-1/

Gipson Quality Firearms

311 Mallard Lane

Sparta IL 62286

At the World Shooting and Recreation Complex

You have a conflict of interest to do your job for the best interest of the "ATA" .... when it involves cutting your own throat. "At the World Shooting and Recreation Complex" has zero value for walk-in customers, if you are the one moving the customers to a different location.

The "ATA" is paying someone 136k plus a year to fight for a personal agenda.

 

I just went to Gibson's web site. There is no location address any where on the site. There is no contact icon to click on. Where is it at? I did not even see a phone number. Is it at the WSC ? Roger C.

 

311 Mallard Lane, Sparta, IL is at the WSRC

 

Conflict of interest , no DOUBT ... He works for the ATA and his business's, wait and see if he gets the job reclaiming the lead when they do the clean up at the WSRC, will be interesting ... How can anyone out bid him, he gets the bids ..? WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

If you go to gipsonguns dot com and click on "Perazzi & Kolar"(it doesn't look clickable) you will see "WSRC Building 3" under the phone number.

 

No movement on the considered value of the complex and no activity regarding the possible sale. Nothing period as nobody has any authority to negotiate anything. Illinois politics at its best. Nothing attempted, nothing accomplished.

 

Don't forget that 4 million that will be "On the Test" that has been talked about.

I have no idea what this test will be, but I'll bet it will be interesting.

 

The WSRC has created the GREATEST write off the State of Illinois has ever realized, problem being they have nothing to write it off against due to its financial situation and lack of financial resources to recover from ... They have suggested raising the taxes in a state that already carries one of the highest tax burdens of all of the other 56 States (Obama's figures) and no way to generate revenues that have not already been implemented to cover it's established operational costs and obligations ... This mix does not make for a healthy/happy existence by any means and can only reflect in negative progression to all involved ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Write off *** in above post (sorry, got carried away) ... Didn't look right but didn't look wrong enough to change it ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Bill.... Go write "write off" 100 times on the black board, then return to your seat..

 

I saw it and new what yew ment so I ficks it four ya...

 

Bill I am glad to see you got the number of states right. ( Obozo and his 57 )

 

Thank you Flyers, and Ken , yes Obama made more jobs and more states ... What a guy .... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

As Republican Gov. Bruce Rauner continues his fight with Democrats here over a state budget due last summer, 550 miles east on I-80, Democratic Gov. Tom Wolf prepares to address lawmakers Tuesday in Pennsylvania, where the budget fight has lasted about as long.

Rauner and Wolf share a title and an alma mater (both attended Dartmouth College), but experts say their similarities end there.

"They're mirror opposites," said Joe McLaughlin, director of Temple University's Institute for Public Affairs.

Wolf has been pushing for higher taxes to cover a revenue gap and increased education spending. Rauner has criticized Democrats in the legislature here for suggesting tax hikes while refusing to pass what he sees as business-friendly reforms.

McLaughlin, citing a series of papers he and researchers at Temple published on the Pennsylvania state government, says divided government and the need for more revenue are the most common reasons for late budgets.

Another contributing factor for these two states is a newly elected governor learning how to work with the legislature, says Christopher Mooney, director of the Institute of Government and Public Affairs at the University of Illinois.

"You get that once every four or eight years. Hopefully, they'll figure out how to work together," he said.

Late state budgets are not rare. For this fiscal year, 12 state legislatures extended their sessions or called special sessions to pass a spending plan, according to the National Conference of State Legislatures. Six states, including Pennsylvania and Illinois, began the fiscal year without enacting a budget.

Eight months into Illinois' fiscal year, it and Pennsylvania are the last holdouts in the U.S. In Illinois, the historically long stalemate has led to a deteriorating social safety net and some state universities threatening layoffs and closure.

"These are anomalies. One would hope that this doesn't lead to more situations like this," Mooney said. "We can't live like this. It frays the body politic."

Mooney says a major distinction between the two states is that Rauner is tying his budget negotiations to non-budget issues, like collective bargaining. That makes compromise more difficult.

"Budgetary places are classic for compromise, but you can't do that with term limits or right to work," Mooney said. But he doesn't blame only Rauner. "Neither side is moving on the core issues. That's what it's going to take," Mooney said.

Pennsylvania has made some progress. In December, Wolf signed parts of a budget to fund education and social services through March.

Before the partial budget passed, school districts in the state had taken on nearly $1 billion in debt to keep schools running through the fall. The Pennsylvania School Board Association is suing state officials to recover that money on behalf of districts.

In Illinois, Rauner dodged a similar crisis by signing the Democrats' school budget in the summer. The move avoided a question of whether schools would open in the fall, relieving a key pressure point and perhaps lengthening the impasse.

Similarly, in Pennsylvania, court orders have kept some money flowing to social services and helped ease pressure. This is much different from budget stalemates past, said McLaughlin.

"It used to be, when you didn't have a budget, nobody got paid, no checks went out. It was ugly, but also an enormous amount of pressure," he said.

On Thursday, Illinois Comptroller Leslie Munger said spending mandated by consent decrees and court orders on social services could cost Illinois up to $1.2 billion more than the previous year by July.

But, in both states, observers say the lawmakers will likely not do anything too controversial to resolve the crisis until after the primary elections. For Pennsylvania, that's not until April 26. In Illinois, it's March 15.


Ill State web site WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

My friend tells me the WSC is not on anyone's calendar. Nobody has any inclination to even be drawn into a conversation regarding the WSC at this time. It's become the white elephant that nobody seems willing to discuss. The chances of any financial cutout for the WSC are between slim and none and it appears slims saddling up to leave town. His question to me, "at this point do you honestly see any politician of standing asking for funding for a gun range in southern Illinois?" He says the large majority want to see it off the states books period.

 

Just got off the phone with my friend. He says odds are less than 50/50 the Grands at the WSC this year and zero chance in the future. There will be no money available to the IDNR for maintainence as the IDNR will most likely receive a cut if a new state budget can be agreed on. Any lease agreement for 2016 will be an absolute loser for the ATA. He says the only decision available to the ATA is how large a financial loss can they live with. He's been pretty well tuned in so far so I have to believe him.

 

Could this be the $4,000,000.00 that is on the "TEST" ???

Only time will tell if my "guess" answer is correct.

Dang, just like school tests...ha ha ha...sometimes the only answer is the "Guess".

We will have a better handle on things "IF" we see the artifacts being brought to the THOF Museum.

I suspect then we will be able to draw some sort of conclusion.

If they don't show up by June, my guess is there won't be a GAH there.

IF they begin to show up, it may be a good bet the GAH will be on....

 

There have been several people saying that any income generated at or by the WSRC is better then none which is not always the case taking everything into consideration and the penalties (liabilities) that might just be attached to doing so making the investment of time and money for the percentage or anticipated return not reasonably logical or even the possibility of breaking even once all is said and done both by the State of Illinois as well as the ATA (Co Sponsor) ... The HOF building should not be used until all of the Black Clouds (DOUBT) looming over the facility are eliminated and it can bet set up and stay standing for years to come , (KEY: years to come) which seems very doubtful at best ... I am not sure who (Seitz9010) is talking to, but I seriously think they have a handle on the situation based on the lacking of anything (absolute) that might confirm the grand being at the WSRC in 2016 and beyond ... The attendance at the grand has been in question and on the decline for the last 15 years, even more so since the relocation to "Green Acres" (WSRC) in Sparta, Ill. even taking into consideration all of the local shooters they did pick up to cover the ones they lost in making the move ... The promotional phases enacted by the generous donations ($550,000 plus) and pay outs by the Martins did not produce shooters as it was intended to do , and the State still lost money ... In the best interest of the ATA as an association (members) its probably time to regroup , move on, cut their losses and remove all doubt ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

Oh' and somebody please turn out the lights, the party is over ...

 

​

 

Looks like the ATA & WTA have about 35 days to oblivion

GB.....................................DLS

 

Only a FOOL would start putting anything the HOF Building, because they all will face repacking and reshipping to an out of the State Warehouse for more storage, best deal would be to ship them to the CC for proper display

GB.................................DLS

 

Seitz seems to know a few people. Doesn't sound good going forward.

 

Doc, which WTA are you talking about?

 

Ken, either its another complete misunderstanding on the Doc's part or the ATA's CPA erred on something the Doc is reading. There was an idea floated to change ATA's name to World Trapshooting Association, but I don't think it gained any traction.

 

Just to set the record straight. My friend in Chicago is a former shooter now more involved with sporting clays. He spent a few years in state politics but has no direct line on the IDNR or ATA negotiations, he's just giving me his thoughts but he's pretty accurate in the past.

 

The ATA has 2 entities ATA & WTA Which one are they working with, the Latest I thought was the WTA WORLD TRAPSHOOTING ASSN.

GB..........................DLS

 

They probably operate the registered shoots on one entity and normal business on the other , very common to have multiple when one of them is a 501 C3) .... We had to do that at the Old Phx Club, years ago ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

I know what you are talking about WPT, but that's not the case with the ATA. The Grand is a primary program of the ATA's exempt purpose so it does not pose a tax issue.

As I said above, my guess is that Gary is confused on something or the ATA has an error in whatever it is Gary is looking at. Maybe he could describe where he is reading that and how it is being used in context. It isn't on any filings for year end 9/30/2014, that I know.

 

The "Spring Grand " was a primary program at the old Phx Club and could not be hosted in connection with the 501 (C) 3 Tax status we had, none of the other registered shoots could be for that matter ... These were run under a second Corp. that we developed in Delaware to stay legal and within the limits of the tax status ... Roger actually set it all up, being as he had the knowledge and ability to get it done, been there, done that ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

WPT, don't take everything as such a challenge. I'm just telling you a fact. What you are talking about is more common for a 501(c)(7) than 501(c)3), but I'm not saying you didn't have to do that for some reason. Just because Phoenix was a C3 does not mean it was identical to ATA.

For the ATA, running a national amateur championship is the main program of its exempt purpose, which is fostering national amateur sports. 100% of the participants at the Grand are members of the ATA. There is no reason for the ATA to have to operate the Grand in a separate organization, actually that would endanger their tax exempt status.

Note the difference here with the old Phoenix club. It could not claim it was running the national championship for the sport, nor that most of its members were participating in that event. These things can make a difference. Registered shoots are a huge tax issue for clubs, but the Grand is not for the ATA. That is why it is not surprising you took special steps for tax purposes. Nothing strange there.

Without more info from Gary, specifically in what context is WTA used in the documents he is looking at, I'll stick by my earlier guess. As far as I know at this time, Gary is the only person to know anything about this WTA. It likely does not exist, but if he can provide more info maybe we can figure it out.

 

Bat .... You are spending time to "educate" the unwashed masses, but still refuse to disclose your credentials and motive. WHY not tell those you are trying guide your past, present, or possible future positions with the "ATA" ????????

 

Well, in this latest case I'm discussing rules for tax exempt organizations, which I'm fairly knowledgeable about. My motive is to try to get the facts presented, and point out what I believe is inaccurate info ( as is my point regarding the WTA being discussed). I think that is just confusing to this site, and its better to minimize the inaccurate posts. In this case, we don't know for sure, but need info from Gary.

I'm not sure what your fixation is with ATA positions? I'm not sure a person in an ATA "position" would necessarily know more about the subject than me.

 

Does being "fairly knowledgeable" give you a good reason to give advice on how to use Federal and State forms, that are used to "report" things ?????

You seem interested in these forms not being used .... so, tell the unwashed masses why "fairly knowledgeable" is good enough to follow your advice.

 

Bat,
I'm not sure you would be better versed or more knowledgeable than the Agent I had to deal with to maintain and retain the 501 (3) tax status we had ... NOT 501(c) 7 .but that option was discussed and was not most beneficial to our operation back then ... The Federal tax code standards were presented as consistent, so if your saying that Agent was wrong and that you have greater knowledge who would be stupid enough to debate with you , knowing you are wrong after having been there and got a first hand education of same ... Present your credentials or admit your full of BS and gathering information off of the Internet to pass on to others as you claim to possess the knowledge ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

I'm interested in pointing out what certain forms are to be used for, and which forms are not supposed to be used for things that get suggested here in error. If you wish to file a proper form, for a proper purpose, that is fine by me.

Nobody has to take my advice, actually I don't think I've offered any advice, at least not much. I've pretty much just pointed out what the rules are. You are free to do anything you want.

 

If anyone wants to get current information regarding the WSC they might consider contacting Rep Jerry Costello II, D-Smithton. At this point I believe he may be the only politician still holding any interest in the WSC's future. He may be able to shed light on his thoughts regarding the complex and its future.

 

WPT, why do you get so upset about something when I did not say you were wrong at all regarding your Phoenix situation, seriously I don't understand? I agree registered shoots are a big problem for clubs, just as you describe. I agree they would be a problem for your old club, just like the agent told you. I said what you described was more often a problem for 501c7 entities, which is known to anyone that has any familiarity with the subject. That in no way means you did not face the situation.

I can prove the ATA does not operate the Grand through a different entity, just look at the 990 filings. Look at NSSA, look at any other C3 organization that operates a national championship in amateur sports. Operating that championship IS the reason for their tax exemption.

One last point, not having anything to do with your Phoenix situation. IRS agents are certainly not the highest level of authority on tax matters. If they were, every issue they raise would go their way, and I'm fairly certain you know that is not the case.

 

Come on Bat ... really ????

"My motive is to try to get the facts presented, and point out what I believe is inaccurate info" .... So, tell everyone how you are qualified to make the determination they are wrong and you are correct. That seems to be a bridge you do not wish to cross.

So again, please tell those who may be interested .... why do you have such an interest in the "tax" issues involving the "ATA" ????

 

"So again, please tell those who may be interested .... why do you have such an interest in the "tax" issues involving the "ATA" ????"

Well... because they seem to be the only tax issues that get raised here. In WPT's case, I am agreeing with him about his old club, not really sure why he seems to not like that. The issue there is that apparently holding registered shoots was NOT in furtherance of the clubs tax exempt purpose. If it was, IRS would not have told him it was a problem, they don't have a problem with activities in furtherance of your exempt purpose.

That is in direct contrast to ATA, where the Grand is in furtherance of its tax exempt purpose, and is clearly reflected on its 990 that way. But we digress, the issue really is Doc's claim that ATA is operating as WTA now. I can't prove a negative, just doubt he is right. Ether Gary is misunderstanding something, or ATA has an error in whatever document Gary is looking at. Need to know what Gary is looking at specifically to be sure.

 

Well Bat, the Doc feels like you are N1H1 .... I would say he has good reason to believe so because of "your fixation" on him.

 

That's what has been eating at you! I wasn't sure what was causing your fixation with me. No, not N1H1, don't worry. My "fixation" with Gary exists only because he tends to post some inaccurate info, or info that needs clarification. I think I usually ask him for clarification when in doubt, but haven't seen any specific info on this WTA matter yet.

If I was N1H1 I wouldn't be asking for clarification, I'd have better sources.

 

You have not said anything that could possibly upset me, so don't pat yourself on the back or even entertain that thought ... Not going to happen ... So, what happened to your showing your credentials ..? WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Not patting myself on the back about anything WPT. I simply don't understand the response, I didn't disagree with you about anything related to your club?

 

"That's what has been eating at you!" .... Sorry, you may amuse me, but not much "eats" at me.

You seem to have a very high opinion of yourself .... you do not want to make the mistake that others share your opinion.

You show your ignorance with things like this .... "If I was N1H1 I wouldn't be asking for clarification, I'd have better sources." .... Why would someone who claims to have all the definitive answers need "clarification" ?????

 

Well User, when I am not sure of something I ask for clarification, isn't that what most people do? In the instant case, I haven't seen what Gary is referring to; if a new organization was formed I'd expect others would have heard of it and posted same, there is no record of the entity existing in IL or having filed a 990, etc. Therefore, my guess is Gary is mistaken, or ATA has an error on a form that he is looking at.

In other words, I don't believe ATA has formed a new entity named WTA, and to that extent believe Gary's post is incorrect... but I do not know that. Therefore I asked for more specific info on the subject. Isn't that how it should work?

Why do you feel I have high opinion of myself? I'm a pretty smart guy, and post info about subjects I am familiar with. There are smarter people here, I'm sure, and those with more experience on a lot of matters. Just because I might disagree with you about some things you have to constantly put me down?

Specifically what is "ignorant" about my statement that N1H1 would have better sources. He was on the EC and is a Past President, I would guess he has contacts in the ATA. Maybe you think I'm wrong about that, but it certainly is not an ignorant statement.

 

User1, the clarification he is seeking if from Gary. I too have reviewed the documents that Gary supplied and cannot see a reference to a WTA. Maybe I missed it, but all Gary has to do is say "it's on page X". Why is that so hard to do?

 

Well iowa guy .... Why should the demands of "proof" be different for the "Doc" than it is for "Bat" ??????

I have ask "Bat" several questions, several times, with no clear answer. So he gets a pass and the "Doc" needs to answer him with "it's on page X".

If "Bat" wants answers he should learn how to give them. "Why is that so hard to do?"

 

Geez User, I haven't "demanded" any proof from the Doc here, I thought I was polite about it. Hey, I'll try my best to provide back up if requested for any statements I make about facts, or at least tell you where the info is available.

Exactly what factual statements have I made that you disagree with?

As I said, I can't prove a negative, but I told you specifically why I do not believe there is a WTA in existence as far as this thread is concerned.

 

Geez Bat .... You refuse to make any "factual statements" about yourself. Then you give vague statements using your vast knowledge on "tax" laws.

I don't know why my asking about your relationship with the "ATA" and any personal knowledge of their "tax" filing upsets you .... "I thought I was polite about it."

 

Why would I post "factual statements" about myself? Wouldn't really interest you much. Do I have to have a certain status to post things here? I do have "personal" knowledge of the ATA's tax filings, at least through year ended 9/30/2014, since I have read them. So should anybody else making statements in reference to them. Copies are available on this site, I believe. I am a member of the ATA though, so that's a "relationship" I guess.

What "vague statements" have I made about tax law? I try to be clear.

 

Ok .... If you want to act as if you are stupid, who am I to deny you.

You have made reference to the incorrect use of "forms", and you always fail to provide any actual information as to why this is a factual statement.

 

Well, I believe I did address that. As I said before, you and another were initially instructing people to file a form with the IRS that is specifically not to be used in the case of a tax exempt entity.

 

How can you possibly know exactly what people are doing without seeing the forms being sent ??????

You keep making efforts to deter people's efforts without firsthand knowledge of the actions. You may think you know more than you do, but until you start posting more than your opinion, don't expect much respect.

 

I wasn't commenting on peoples actions, as I said go ahead and do what you think is appropriate. What I was pointing out was that you, specifically, were advising others to file a certain Form (which you referenced by Form number) that is not for use when dealing with tax-exempt entities. Has nothing to do with firsthand knowledge of people actions, simply incorrect information you posted. I believe you added the correct form in later posts, so something was accomplished.

This is getting tiring, I'd still like to know where the idea that the ATA is operating as WTA came from?

 

Give it a rest Bat .... As I said, if you want to act stupid I will be glad to treat you as such.

Nice choice of words .... "you, specifically," .... it reminds me of someone.

 

User, you made a specific accusation: "You have made reference to the incorrect use of "forms", and you always fail to provide any actual information as to why this is a factual statement."

I then specifically pointed out what was incorrect about postings you made, and that I had already pointed it out. What more can I do. You don't seem serious about anything other than whether I'm EC or something, which I've already told you I wasn't.

Then you come back with that last post? What do you mean "it reminds me of someone"? Seriously, you got something bothering you here that I find disturbing. I'm guessing you still think I'm Neil Winston? Is that what's going on here? I always thought of him as being more of a science/physics type of guy, not a statutes type of guy like me. Believe me, I don't recall much about trig, physics etc. at all and can't draw up a nice graph to dress up my posts.

 

Did I hit a nerve "Bat" ????? I mean, "specifically", what has you upset ?????

 

Just that I wasted so much time on this thread with you.

 

That also reminds me of someone. Always worried about wasting time when it doesn't go his way, but can't just let it go.

Are you sure you do not want to email ... http://www.illinoisattorneygeneral.gov/about/email_ag.jsp ... and ask them to take a close look at the "ATA" ??????

 

Bat,
I requested your credentials more than once, won't ask again and put you on the spot ... PM if you must, I can keep it a secret, you have my word ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

​

 

Things are not sounding good. If my information is correct there continues to be a group of legislators in Illinois firmly convinced now is their best time to rid the state of the WSC, gun nuts and runaway expenses. They are still very serious regarding blocking any money being used for the WSC and are gaining traction with other politicians to rid the state of the WSC once and for all. May not happen but it won't be for lack of effort on their part. Given the political landscape in Illinois any money for guns as they spin it is a definite loser. I guess we'll have to see who wins but other than Costello I don't know who's fighting to save the WSC. Maybe Merlo can get some info.

 

Maybe the spin meister Duffer can show me where I'm going wrong in my thinking

 

FULL TEXT: GOV. BRUCE RAUNER’S 2016 BUDGET ADDRESS
BUDGET + TAX / Article
February 17, 2016
Full transcript of Governor Bruce Rauner’s 2016 budget address, as prepared for delivery to the General Assembly on Feb. 17, 2016.

President Cullerton

Speaker Madigan

Leader Radogno

Leader Durkin

Lieutenant Governor Sanguinetti

Attorney General Madigan

Secretary White

Comptroller Munger

Treasurer Frerichs

Members of the General Assembly,

Thank you for your service.

I stand before you today with respect for our co-equal branches of government – acknowledgment of our shared responsibility for the future – and a deeply-rooted desire to work with each and every one of you to right our ship of state.

Although we succeeded last year in eliminating an inherited $1.6 billion budget hole without a tax hike, we are now in our 8th month without a state budget – and court orders are forcing us to spend beyond our means.

Shocking, yes. Acceptable, not even close.

For more than two decades, we’ve had unsustainable unbalanced budgets, undisciplined spending, increased borrowing from retirees and vendors, rising taxes, inadequate infrastructure investment, massive manufacturing job losses, and stagnant family incomes. Dismal economic performance.

The truth is, we haven’t had a truly balanced budget in Illinois for decades. In ways both obvious and hidden, we’ve overspent, and raised taxes to cover it.

To win elections, politicians from both parties made promises to special interests that the state could never afford – unaffordable pension promises that are bankrupting our state.

Adding to the damage has been the cost of delay, the penalty we pay for kicking the can down the road by not paying for our promises when they were made. Postponing the day of reckoning is taxing delayed, only with a steeper price, and increased pain for our working families, when the bill finally comes due.

Years of unpaid bills – with their punishing 12% interest rates – have cost taxpayers more than $1 billion in interest.

Worse: Delaying pension contributions through a slow ramp, which didn’t pay in the actuarially required amount each year, was the equivalent of borrowing from the pension funds at an 8% interest rate – which is the long term yield on pension assets.

Eight percent is a stunningly high interest cost for our taxpayers to bear – that’s the rate you pay on junk bonds! Illinois taxpayers owe an additional $40 billion to the pensions because of this hidden borrowing scheme.

Our costs of government have grown rapidly, while our tax base – families and companies who pay for it all – is declining. Illinois today has fewer jobs and lower family incomes than we had in 1999. Think about that. Absolutely shocking. Unacceptable! Our people deserve so much better.

Raising taxes without addressing the costs of government, and improving the business climate of our state, merely drives families and jobs out of Illinois. In the years after the last tax hike in 2011, Illinois lost $3.7 billion of taxable income. After the last tax increase, Illinois’ credit rating was downgraded to the lowest in the nation. Our pension liability went UP $28 billion. School funding was cut. The finances in the City of Chicago and Chicago Public Schools deteriorated. And now we lag the nation in job creation.

That experience showed us that a tax hike by itself is just part of an endless cycle of increased spending, borrowing and higher taxes – a cycle that drives people and jobs out of Illinois.

We have to break out of this downward cycle – and build a positive cycle of cost savings and job growth.

We must look beyond annual savings, and focus on changing long term trajectories.

We already know what won’t work.

For one thing – this year cannot become a re-run of last year.

Twelve months ago, I proposed a budget with $6 billion in cuts, and it was quickly rejected by the legislature. I offered to work together to find a compromise, but our reform proposals were ignored.

Instead, Democratic legislators passed a spending plan that was more than $4 billion out-of-balance, and I had to veto it.

Democrats won’t support enough spending cuts to live within our current revenues, and you won’t vote to raise taxes to cover your deficit spending unless Republicans agree to support your tax hike.

I won’t support new revenue unless we have major structural reforms to grow more jobs and get more value for taxpayers. I’m insisting that we attack the root causes of our dismal economic performance.

Those are the dynamics.

That leaves us with only two choices: either you give the executive branch the authority to cut spending to live within our revenues. Or, we agree – together – on economic and governmental reforms, to accompany a negotiated balance of spending reductions and revenue, that ensures that Illinois can be both compassionate and competitive.

You choose. But please, choose now.

Let’s stop wasting time by voting on spending bills you know must be vetoed – and then doing it again and again and again.

The people of Illinois are sick and tired of this – they want us to work together, not watch another pointless cycle of votes and vetoes.

The people have been waiting long enough.

I stand ready to negotiate with each and every one of you – 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

The people of Illinois want action. The time to act is NOW.

A few weeks ago, one Democratic legislator – someone for whom I have a great deal of respect – told the media that the solution to our problems must include several things: reforms, cuts and revenues.

Quote: “Those are the levers that have to be pulled in order to get out of this, and it’s just not that hard if reasonable people come together.”

She is right – everyone in this chamber must come together in the spirit of compromise and bipartisanship.

Let’s work together to enact a bipartisan, balanced budget with a mix of reforms, cost reductions and revenue – just as that Democratic lawmaker suggested.

And by reforms, I mean REAL reforms that will allow Illinois to grow jobs, expand our tax base and steadily reduce the total tax burden on Illinois families.

The reforms we’ve put forward would make our government more efficient and save taxpayers money.

We’ve introduced procurement reform to save half a billion dollars in the coming fiscal year alone. We have begun the work to sell the Thompson Center and save hundreds of millions. And we are negotiating a new labor contract that is fair to both state employees and taxpayers – to save hundreds of millions of dollars this year and $3 billion over the next three years.

Since last spring, we’ve been bargaining in good faith with all of the public sector unions whose members serve in state government. We are negotiating on behalf of taxpayers who pay their salaries; on behalf of school children, the vulnerable, and the elderly, whose services depend on taxpayer funds. I am negotiating for all of them.

Our government employees are terrific people. They deserve to be well paid. And under our proposal, they will still be the highest paid state workers in the Midwest.

In the end, I know we will have an agreement that is good for state workers and good for taxpayers. Political attempts by the legislature to intervene at the 11th hour, and alter a binding contract, are a direct attack on Illinois taxpayers – a direct attack on all the people across Illinois whose services depend on state funding. We simply can’t afford to increase the cost of our bureaucracy by three billion dollars. Legislation to force that kind of spending, and blow a giant hole in our budget, will be vetoed.

Three weeks ago, during the State of the State address, I said I would support President Cullerton’s pension plan as a first step toward major pension reform – and I urged this legislature to pass it without delay.

President Cullerton’s pension reform can save taxpayers a billion dollars a year starting in fiscal 2018.

Our administration lawyers met with Senate staff and made clear we will support whatever legislative language President Cullerton wants to use.

Unfortunately, as of today, no bill has even been introduced. Now is the time to set politics aside and do what is right for taxpayers. No more delays. No more stalling.

We also have to implement structural reforms that lower the cost of government, while generating revenue through economic growth.

There’s a perception among some of you that the Turnaround reforms we’ve put forward won’t help our budget crisis. That they’re quote “non-budget” items. That they don’t matter enough to move the needle. That they’d do more harm than good. Well, nothing could be further from the truth.

Workers’ compensation reform and lawsuit reform. Mandate relief, consolidation, local control of bargaining and bidding to drive down property taxes. These reforms will provide many billions of dollars every year in government cost savings. But even more critically, they’ll help our economy grow faster by rebuilding job creators’ confidence in our state. More businesses, more jobs, more people working and paying taxes.

Right now, middle class families face crushing property tax burdens – they see factory workers in Indiana, Iowa, Wisconsin and Texas making more than here in Illinois – and they see jobs and opportunity fleeing our state. I’m fighting for those middle class families every single day.

To create jobs and raise incomes, we’ve got to change our state’s reputation as being hostile to business. If our workers comp costs were in line with the median; if our tort system was typical of most states; if our property taxes were average for America; if our government had long-term fiscal discipline with structural balanced budgets that restore confidence in our financial future – then Illinois would become much more attractive to business – and our economic growth rate would rise from the bottom.

According to the Illinois Department of Revenue, if our state’s economy had grown at just the national average over the last 15 years, we would have generated $19 billion in additional revenue – even without the 2011 tax hike.

Just think about that. Today, we’d have no bill backlog with a billion dollars of interest payments. No budget crisis. And billions more for our schools, human services and infrastructure.

The true solution to fixing our budget is to raise revenue by expanding our tax base and growing our economy – not by raising taxes and driving more jobs and families out of our state.

My point is this: we need to change the way we think about the budget. This isn’t a binary choice between program cuts and revenue increases.

This is about economic growth and opportunity – a more efficient government with more value for taxpayers – a better future for everyone in Illinois.

When we adopt reform – and our economy grows – and the cost of government shrinks – at that point, no matter what mix of spending cuts and revenue we consider in the short term, the overall tax burden on Illinois families will decline for years to come.

To take this path, we don’t have to enact every item of our Turnaround Agenda in their current forms, but we must pass REAL reforms this year.

The savings for taxpayers from our Turnaround reforms would increase over time and could be many billions of dollars a year – potentially much larger than our current annual deficit.

Even if we only implemented a portion of these recommendations, in a few years we’d have a balanced budget without a tax hike, and we’d have billions of dollars in surplus funds to invest in our schools, our human services, and our infrastructure.

We’d be putting a priority on the next generation, not the next election.

Let us commit today to working together to enact a reform agenda, alongside a responsible, compassionate budget that together forms a sensible long-term financial future for the state.

For a year now, I’ve believed with all my heart that this common-sense approach could win majorities in both the House and Senate – if everyone was willing to compromise.

But as elected officials, you have to deal with political realities. Primary elections. Special interests. Campaign supporters.

If, in the end, you won’t compromise on the reforms we’ve proposed – and if you’re unwilling to work with us to enact a balanced budget with a mix of reform, cost reductions and revenue – we still must fulfill our shared responsibility to enact a balanced budget.

No reform means we cannot in good conscience raise taxes on the hard-working families of Illinois. Instead, cuts will have to be made.

If that becomes necessary, I would ask the legislature to work with us to make these tough decisions.

If you are not willing to do that, then give the Executive Branch the flexibility to reallocate resources and make reductions to state spending as necessary.

The Unbalanced Budget Response Act would put everything on the table to help us balance our budget – everything except funding for early childhood education and General State Aid to our schools. To balance the budget without reform, we’ll have to take a microscope to every other category of state spending.

You’ve given emergency budget authority to governors in the past – other states have too – and no one can dispute that we have an emergency on our hands. It’s not my preferred course of action. It wouldn’t solve our long-term challenges. But it would, at the very least, allow us to stop digging the hole deeper.

No matter which of these paths you choose – we must make the education of our children our top priority. The one thing I won’t back down on – the one thing that’s non-negotiable for me – is increasing education funding.

That is why Leader Durkin and Leader Radogno will be introducing a standalone appropriations bill for early childhood education and our K-12 schools.

No matter how this session unfolds, send that education bill to my desk – CLEAN – NO GAMES – and I’ll sign it immediately.

The greatest investment we can make as a community is in our children. And the earlier we begin, the bigger the return.

That is why our budget for early childhood education increases state support by $75 million, a nearly 25 percent increase. With that level of funding, we’d keep more than 85,000 kids in preschool and create 2,900 more full-day preschool slots.

The $393 million this budget proposes investing in early childhood education is the most in state history – and will allow us to make giant strides towards ensuring every child in Illinois enters Kindergarten with a chance to succeed.

We have a new Executive Director at the Governor’s Office of Early Childhood Development – Kelley Washington – and I want to recognize her presence here today.

Our budget also proposes fully funding the General State Aid foundation level for the first time in seven years.

This will mark the most state money we’ve ever invested in our school funding formula, and eliminate the need for any proration – a practice that has forced teachers, administrators and school boards to make cuts that negatively impact our kids.

We must fully fund this foundation level as a first step toward reforming our school funding formula. Our current formula doesn’t meet the needs of our children. Past attempts to fix the formula didn’t work because they pitted communities against each other.

This year, we are already seeing this cynical strategy being deployed. After years of financial mismanagement, our largest school system is threatening a lawsuit against the state. Such a course could set back funding formula reform for years to come, and ignores reality.

Not only did Chicago Public Schools ask for the current arrangement, they are benefiting from a special deal. CPS receives an extra $600 million more every year than school districts with similar student demographics. Any school funding reform proposal that involves taking money from one school district and giving it to another, is doomed to fail.

To achieve formula changes, we must increase state support for education so that no community has state funding taken away as part of reform. I pledge to work with you on this issue to find a bipartisan way forward. But – nothing should delay the General Assembly from funding early childhood education and K-12 schools for the coming fiscal year.

I restate my request – send me that appropriations bill right away – CLEAN – NO GAMES – to give our schoolchildren, our parents, and our teachers the security of knowing that education is our top priority.

Send me that education bill for students all across Illinois – students like Diamond Jackson. Diamond is a student leader at Springfield Southeast High School – she’s a student board member for District 186 – she’s a rising star and she’s with us here today. Thank you for joining us here, Diamond.

Send me that education bill so that every student like Diamond has the opportunity to succeed.

Send me that bill for teachers around the state like Kim Thomas from Peoria. Kim is the 2016 Illinois Teacher of the Year – and she’s here with us today. Kim, thanks for all you do.

Send me that bill right away, and make sure teachers like Kim have the resources they need to give our kids a world class education.

Ladies and gentlemen, the paths before us are well-defined. Now it’s time to choose.

With my hand outstretched – with a genuine desire to compromise – with respect – I humbly ask you to join me in transforming our state for the better.

Turnarounds are about changing direction. From loss to growth. From decline to expansion. From deficit to surplus. For the economy. For jobs. For taxpayers. For our children. For our future.

Right now, we’re headed in the wrong direction. We need to work together to change the trajectory.

If we do this– if we come together to fix our long-term challenges – we will deliver world class education to every child in Illinois – no matter where they live or where they came from.

If we do this– if we come together to fix our long-term challenges – we will support the human services safety net on which so many depend.

If we do this– if we come together to fix our long-term challenges – we will lead the nation in the 21st century in economic growth, job creation and infrastructure – the envy of the world – the engine of North America once again.

We CAN do this. We MUST do this. Every hard working family across this great state deserves no less.

Let’s get this done TOGETHER.

God bless you. God bless the State of Illinois. And God bless the United States of America.

 

GOV. BRUCE RAUNER: ILLINOIS CAN SAVE $500M ON PURCHASES
BUDGET + TAX / Article
February 5, 2016
Streamlining the way Illinois buys goods and services could save the state $500 million annually.

Gov. Bruce Rauner and Republican lawmakers say reforms to the procurement system would speed the process, save money and get the state and its taxpayers better results.

Illinois has four chief procurement officers as well as a Policy Procurement Board, the governor said.

“We’ve got everybody involved,” Rauner said. “it’s a convoluted process where nobody’s in charge.”

Sen. Chapin Rose, R-Mahomet, a member of the Commission on Government Forecasting and Accountability, spoke at Rauner’s news conference, citing examples of how complex the system is and how its benefits can be hard to measure.

In one case, he said, three national providers with “phalanxes” of bid specialists and lawyers were the only vendors bidding on a $3 billion, multi-year prescription drug contract. After a months-long first round of the bid process, all were rejected for technical errors, he said.

Rose said his question to the procurement officer on whether any money was actually saved was met with, “Absolutely — we don’t know.”

Rauner said he supports putting the governor in charge of the procurement system and increasing the duties and the authority of the auditor general’s office when it comes to the procurement process.

The governor is backing legislation by Rep. Dan Brady, R-Bloomington, and Pamela Althoff, R-McHenry.

“Let’s get reforms done so we’ve got the money rather than only proposing bills to spend more when we’re basically out of cash,” Rauner said.

“Procurement has been one of the largest sources of waste and abuse in our state,” he said. “It’s frustrating — the level of incompetence and inefficiency in the system, and we really need to change this as quickly as we can.”

The governor said money saved from procurement reform and dumping expensive yet inefficient state properties such as the James R. Thompson Center in Chicago could fund a big portion of higher education costs, including the Monetary Award Program (MAP grants) and help for community colleges.

Backers say the legislation, House Bill 4644, would:

• Establish a pool of prequalified vendors for certain purchases;
• Reduce the burdens on universities through exemptions for certain education-related purchases;
• Create a preference for buying supplies and services from Illinois businesses.

Allow Illinois to “piggyback” on other state’s purchases and more freely participate in purchasing cooperatives.
“We look forward to exploring their ideas,” said John Patterson, spokesman for Senate President John Cullerton, D-Chicago.

Steve Brown, a spokesman for House Michael Madigan, D-Chicago, said House Democrats would look at the proposals, but he also advised caution.

“Scandals in previous administrations, both Republican and Democrat, led to the procurement policies that are on the books now,” Brown said.

One of the duties of the Procurement Policy Board is to advise the Legislature, Brown said.

“In the wake of scandals, I think they (lawmakers) would be slow-moving to make changes that the Procurement Policy Board doesn’t sign off on,” Brown said.

The Procurement Policy Board is made up of five members, one each appointed by the four legislative leaders and one by the governor. The governor’s appointee serves as chairman.




I think I saw Merlo going the other way down the hall ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

It's starting to look like the Illinois politicians have decided to pass on a 2016 budget and move on to develop a 2017 budget. As stupid as that sounds many are now saying the chance of a budget for 2016 is very remote. The state is overspending currently, above last years spending and is creating more debt that will probably never be repaid. If anyone's really paying attention to the state's financial future its getting extremely bleak. Madigan's idea of raising taxes sounds good but every year there's a smaller number of taxpayers to get money from. So given the state of the state just where do you think the IDNR and WSC stand on the list of priorities of an anti gun state?

 

"So given the state of the state just where do you think the IDNR and WSC stand on the list of priorities of an anti gun state?"

​

 

I think Merlo is standing with the fat lady that is warming up. Brad

 

According to source the WSC is opening in a few weeks and the first scheduled event is a Glock pistol event.

 

Upcoming schedule according to the IDNR.

http://www.dnr.illinois.gov/recreation/WSRC/Pages/InteractiveEventsCalendar.aspx

 

I believe the League shooting will start before the Glock shoot.. seems WSRC has been included in the budget...

 

What would you like me to spin?

You seem to have spun it yourself.

 

Bat, I am not sure where the Doc came up with the new organization that he is referring to as the WTA, but Tim Reed put forward a proposal to change the name of the ATA to WTA (World Trapshooting Association) at the 2015 annual meeting held at the Grand last year. He felt that having "Amateur" in our organizations' name was handicapping our ability to get sponsors and a greater level of press coverage.

The proposal was discussed and rejected, because it was felt that the costs alone associated with the name change, would amount to $443,000. This discussion was reported on lines 395-400 inclusive in the 2015 ATA BOD Minutes.

 

Thanks Jo2. I was aware of the proposal and that discussion in the minutes, but have no idea what Gary is getting his info from either.

 

Thought my friend was wrong but he still assures me that he said 2016 was possible but no 2017. He sees much smaller shoot and not enough money generated to match the past losing years. The IDNR and ATA are throwing around very optimistic figures so he feels this will not bring about the desired result for either. He advised me to sit back, chill out, watch and learn something. So I'm going too. His other question to me was if I was still debating if the SCTP would return to the WSC after the CC has sat down with them and built everything they needed including a commitment to continue to provide anything they need in the future. The facilities are better, the infrastructure and location are much more family friendly so what could I possibly be thinking. The SCTP leaders are strictly in it for the kids and their families, the ATA not so much.

 

How much money does the ATA give the SCTP?

 

zippo

 

Here's a quote from the SCTP press release, when the partnership was announced on 1/5/15:

"Another feature of the partnership will be funding to the SCTP by the ATA for scholarships and program operating costs."

 

Duffer, so how much did the ATA give?

 

So Duff.....what is the answer? Tell us how much the ATA give the SCTP vs how much the SCTP gives the ATA. I was under the impression that it is a pay to play.

 

I'm not sure the SCTP has any real need for the ATA at this point. Trap is only one part of the SCTP.

 

If I knew the answer, why would I be asking the experts?

 

$12,000 in 2015