Sorry, the ATA and Grand will continue

No matter the bitterness of some, the show will go on.

I always respect opinions and views of others, yet some won't do the same.

Oh well, time marches on.

 

That seems to be the mind set Ohio had in 2005.

 

Get better bait or that twit tron to help you.

 

Lets just wait and see what happens. There will be plenty of time to tar and feather.

 

Duff cant get the bait right. OH turned down the grand. Maybe the OP is tron twit?

 

Reality will set in, then you will still deny it.

 

Not Without Electric, it cannot continue.


GB....................DLS

 

Will we need to bring our own generators and extension cords?

 

SNIP, SNIP, CHOP: GOV. BRUCE RAUNER’S PLANS FOR FY2016 BUDGET CUTS IN ILLINOIS

CAITLIN WILSON

REBOOT STAFF
FEB 19, 2015 25739 89

Share this article:
Budget Address to the Illinois General Assembly, Gov. Bruce Rauner decried the “sleight of hand budgeting” and “financial recklessness” that has besmirched the state’s fiscal condition with its more than $6 billion budget deficit and $111 billion in unfunded pension liabilities. He made it clear that he wanted to diverge from the state’s current spending practices and forge an “honest path forward” toward a more stable financial situation for the state.

One of the best ways to do that, said Rauner, is to cut spending where it is wasteful, unhelpful or redundant. He outlined several ways in which Illinois could its reduce its spending burden in the upcoming fiscal year, which begins July 1.

Here is a cultivated list of spending cut details Rauner is proposing for next year’s budget, based state general funds from FY 2015 enacted appropriations and the governor’s FY 2016 proposed appropriation. Here are some budget cut highlights:

• $5 million from the General Assembly
• $400 million from higher education
• $5 million from the State Board of Elections
• $3 million from the Department of Agriculture
• $6 million from the Department of Natural Resources
• $139 million from the Department of Children and Family Services
• $21 million from the Department of Labor
• $1 billion from the Department of Healthcare and Family Services
• $22 million from the Department of Public Health
• $500,000 from the Executive Ethics Commission
• $8 million from the promotion of Illinois tourism
• $31 million from alcohol and substance abuse programs
• $2.2 billion in pension savings
• from every statewide constitutional office

And even though there is a $300 million overall increase to K-12 education, the budget includes $21 million worth of cuts from the following programs:

• At-risk Students
• College and Career Readiness
• Effective Teachers and Leaders
• Nutrition
• Special Education
• Need-based scholarships and grants

Source: Illinois State Budget Fiscal Year 2016


WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

GOV. RAUNER’S FIRST ILLINOIS BUDGET PLAN INCLUDES CALL FOR DEEP CUTS

MADELEINE DOUBEK

REBOOT STAFF
FEB 18, 2015 4526 4

Share this article:
FacebookTwitterEmailMore
Editor’s Note: Here are Gov. Bruce Rauner’s first budget address remarks, as prepared for delivery to the Illinois General Assembly on Feb. 18, 2015:

Illinois’ Turnaround Budget
Good Afternoon.

President Cullerton

Speaker Madigan

Leader Radogno

Leader Durkin

Lieutenant Governor Sanguinetti

Attorney General Madigan

Secretary White

Comptroller Munger

Treasurer Frerichs

Members of the General Assembly,

Thank you for attending today. Thank you for your service to the people of Illinois.

Over the past week, we’ve commemorated the life of Illinois’ greatest leader, Abraham Lincoln.

In the lead up to his signing of the Emancipation Proclamation, President Lincoln delivered a letter to Congress, writing in part:

“The occasion is piled high with difficulty, and we must rise with the occasion… We must think anew and act anew.”

While the challenges before us are very different than those that faced our 16th President, here, in the Land of Lincoln, we recognize that the road ahead – our road to a more prosperous future – is a difficult one.

And like President Lincoln’s call to Congress, we too must “think anew and act anew.”

We must be willing to take actions we’d rather avoid, and make decisions that may seem unpopular in the short run.

The budget outlined today is the budget Illinois can afford, and that in itself is an example of “thinking anew.”

Because for far too long we have been living beyond our means—spending money that Illinois taxpayers could not afford.

This budget is honest with the people of Illinois, and it presents an honest path forward.

Like a family, we must come together to address the reality we face.

Families know that every member can’t get everything they want.

But we can pay for what we need most.

And we can reform our system so we are able to invest more in the future.

Because the task before us is so large, all our challenges cannot be solved by a single budget.

It will take time to restore Illinois to fiscal health.

Now is the time to start on a responsible path after years of financial recklessness.

Instilling discipline is not easy, saying “no” is not popular – but it is now or never for Illinois.

It is make or break time.

Before we can address next year’s budget, we must first solve the current year’s crisis.

As you know, the current budget was $1.6 billion in the hole when it was signed last year.

And the prior administration directed state agencies NOT to control their costs.

As a result, we are in the middle of a crisis that gets worse every day.

The Child Care Assistance Program is out of money and families are worried about how to care for their children.

Court reporters will start missing payroll next month, threatening to grind our justice system to a halt.

And our state prisons will start missing payroll in early April, making them unable to fulfill their most basic operations.

Everyone in this chamber understands the severity of what is immediately in front of us.

Mr. President, Mr. Speaker, Leader Radogno and Leader Durkin – thank you for allowing your staffs to meet with our administration these past few weeks to find a responsible solution to our immediate budget crisis.

It appears that we are very close, literally days away, from a resolution. And every day counts.

Members of the General Assembly – now is the time for action.

It is time to solve this crisis.

Let’s continue the Child Care Assistance Program.

Let’s keep our court rooms open.

Let’s keep our corrections officers on duty.

Let’s put the people of Illinois over partisan politics.

Solving this year’s crisis will eliminate $1.6 billion from next year’s deficit.

Let’s get it done.

Even after we solve this fiscal year’s crisis, we will still be left with a budget hole of $6.2 billion for the coming fiscal year.

This huge deficit is the result of years of bad decisions, sleight-of-hand budgeting and giveaways we couldn’t afford.

It is NOT the result of decreasing tax rates.

Some in the General Assembly are eager to discuss new revenue.

But before revenue can be discussed, reform is essential.

Before we ask the people of Illinois to pay more to fund state government, we must ensure taxpayers are getting value for their money.

Asking for more of the taxpayers’ hard-earned money without fundamentally reforming the structure of state government would further erode public confidence and accelerate our decline.

Waste and inefficiency are rampant in the system. Illinois government is currently designed to benefit those inside the system rather than the working families of our state.

We must institute major reforms, or whatever balanced budget we craft this year will be undone in the years ahead by the special interests that make their money from the government and pay politicians to spend more. We must eliminate conflicts of interest in state government and end our broken system.

These reforms won’t be easy. Decades of special interest laws will be difficult to undo. But to be compassionate, we must be competitive. And that means having the political courage to put the people’s interests first and the special interests last.

Our top priority for financial reform must be our pension system. That is true regardless of the Supreme Court’s decision on SB 1.

Even if our pension systems were fully funded, taxpayers would still be on the hook for $2 billion.

But our pension systems are not fully funded. They are $111 billion in the hole—the worst pension crisis in America.

As it stands right now, one out of every four dollars taken from taxpayers by the state goes into a system that is giving more than ELEVEN THOUSAND government retirees tax-free, six-figure pensions worth as much as, in one case, $450,000 per year!

Without the reforms proposed in this budget, nearly 25 cents of every tax dollar will continue going into a broken pension system instead of into our social services safety net, our schools, or back into the pockets of taxpayers and small businesses!

That is unfair and unsustainable – and it changes with this budget.

Government employees deserve fair and competitive benefits, but we cannot continue to raise taxes on all Illinoisans in order to fund the retirement benefits of a small fraction of our residents.

The pension reform plan in this budget will protect every dollar of benefits earned to date.

Let me repeat that: the pension reform plan protects every dollar of benefits earned.

What you’ve earned, you’re going to get.

And if you are retired, you get everything you were promised. That’s fair and it’s right.

But moving forward, all future work will be under the Tier 2 pension plan, except for our police and firefighters.

Those who put their lives on the line in service to our state deserve to be treated differently, and I believe the public will stand with me in this single case of special treatment.

This budget also gives employees hired before 2011 a choice to take a buyout option – a lump sum payment and a defined contribution plan in return for a voluntary reduction in cost-of-living adjustments. It’s time to empower our workforce and address one of the biggest fiscal challenges we face.

These reforms will yield more than $2 billion in savings in the first year alone.

And by bringing health care benefits more in line with those received by the taxpayers who pay for them, we save an additional $700 million.

We recognize that some of these reforms cannot be achieved through legislation alone.

Some must be achieved through good faith bargaining, and I hope that those on the other side of the table are as committed as I am to achieving the types of meaningful reform that are necessary for Illinois’ future.

While the state tightens its belt, so too must local governments and transportation agencies.

The amount of money transferred to local governments has grown 42 percent over the past decade. The state currently transfers $6 billion every year to local governments. Those governments are currently sitting on more than $15 billion in cash reserves.

The reduction in local government sharing in this budget is equal to just 3 percent of their total revenue.

Along with this modest cutback, our turnaround reforms will reduce unfunded mandates, and give local governments and voters the tools to save hundreds of millions of dollars through consolidation, employment flexibility and compensation restructuring.

Similarly, waste and inefficiency can be cut from the complex web that comprises our public transportation structure.

Statewide, our public transportation agencies spend billions of taxpayer dollars.

Our budget reductions for the state’s largest transit agency amount to less than 5 percent of its overall budget, and here, too, the proposals in our turnaround agenda give our transportation entities the tools to save hundreds of millions of dollars.

Reining in these costs allows us to minimize reductions in other areas of the budget.

For Medicaid, our budget reduces costs significantly while maintaining eligibility levels for most lower-income Illinoisans.

We plan to re-implement many of the Medicaid reform measures that were enacted just a few years ago but have already been undone.

By re-instituting the SMART Act and prioritizing our re-determination efforts, we will save hundreds of millions of dollars.

Our budget will also reduce costs by fixing our broken criminal justice system.

Far too many offenders return to prison within three years of leaving – a vicious and costly cycle.

Our prisons are overcrowded.

Our corrections officers are overworked.

By reforming our criminal justice system we can make our prisons safer, rehabilitate ex-offenders so they become productive members of society, and save many tens of millions of dollars.

Taken together, our turnaround reforms, along with the difficult but necessary choices in this budget, will enable us to invest in our future.

Making these tough choices is a small price to pay for the promise of a better tomorrow for our children and grandchildren.

In the gallery today, we are joined by students from Lincoln Community High School in Lincoln, and Lanphier High School and Lincoln Magnate School in Springfield.

This budget allows us to invest in them.

For years, state support for education has been cut, even when it didn’t have to be.

It’s time to make education our top priority again – and that’s what this budget does.

We start by increasing high-quality early childhood education options for our most vulnerable children.

Every dollar invested today in early childhood education saves us more than $7 in the future.

Increasing funding for our youngest is the smart AND the compassionate thing to do.

This budget also increases K-12 education funding by $300 million, helping school districts in our state that most need our support.

We have much more work to do to make our schools among the best in the nation, but we’re proud of the commitment we are making in this budget.

What we proposed today is a turnaround budget.

It improves public safety, provides care for our most vulnerable, boosts funding for education, and restructures the core costs of state government that are holding us back.

However, while this budget begins to fix our financial problems, the only real answer to our challenges is to become pro-growth again.

We need a booming economy – more small businesses and entrepreneurs starting here, and more people and businesses moving here.

If we don’t take action now to expand the economic pie, the people of Illinois will forever be left to fight over smaller and smaller slices.

Our citizens deserve a path to economic growth and empowerment – and that means putting people first and special interests last.

To grow our economy, we must enact meaningful workers compensation reform, unemployment insurance reform, lawsuit reform, pension reform and tax reform.

We’ve got to freeze property taxes, cut the red tape inside state and local government, and let people control their own economic destinies.

We need to end the corrupt bargains and the conflicts of interest. And we need to finally let the people have their say on a “Term Limits Amendment” to the state constitution.

If we make these reforms, we will be laying a solid foundation for economic growth and prosperity.

With reform, we will be able to:

Invest more in education and give our kids world class schools;

Invest more in our social safety net to help our most vulnerable residents;

And invest more in our infrastructure.

This turnaround plan reflects President Lincoln’s call to “think anew and act anew.”

In it, we end the irresponsible and reckless practices of the past, and make sure they will never happen again.

We make difficult choices that no one wants to make.

It is what this occasion requires.

And it’s what we were elected to do – make choices based on what’s best for the next generation, not the next election.

This is our last, best chance to get our house in order.

Let’s get it done.

Thank you. And God bless you.


WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

RAUNER’S BUDGET DETAILS: THE ILLINOIS TURNAROUND BUDGET

MADELEINE DOUBEK

REBOOT STAFF
FEB 18, 2015 7927 4

Share this article:
prepared budget speech remarks on Feb. 18, 2015:

The Turnaround Budget
This is a turnaround budget. It reduces spending while funding essential government services. The budget improves public safety, provides care for the most vulnerable and boosts funding for education while restructuring the core costs of state government that are holding Illinois back. It puts Illinois on a fiscally-sustainable path.

Major Points:
 Eliminates $6.2 billion structural deficit.
 Unlike the FY2015 budget, this budget uses honest accounting and is structurally balanced.
 Relies on no tax increases or borrowing.
 Includes $500 million to pay down unpaid bill backlog.
 Increases K-12 education spending by roughly $300 million
 Increases early childhood education funding by $25 million.
 Most money for education general state aid in Illinois history.
 Enacts true pension and benefit reform, saving the state nearly $3 billion in the first year.
 Looks at the state as a whole and treats all regions fairly.
 Focuses on core functions of government and delivers essential services.
 Submitted on time.
The Budget:
Invests in our children
 The budget increases funding for early childhood and pre-K-12 education.
 Leaves intact health and human services programs for children, including children of immigrants.
 Foster care services for children are not reduced.
 Child care dollars are prioritized to serve the youngest children to prepare them for school.
Prioritizes care for the most vulnerable
 Programs that serve our aging or disabled populations will focus on those with higher needs, rather than those most able to care for themselves.
Promotes public safety and reforms criminal justice system
 Increases corrections and juvenile justice budgets in order to improve conditions in state prisons and reduce the number of offenders in Illinois.
Focuses on programs that serve the entire state
 Public health and state police laboratories, licensing and permitting functions, inspections and statewide road maintenance were prioritized over services to specific populations.

Key Policy Points:
Criminal Justice
 Increases Department of Corrections staffing levels by 473 positions.
 Increases funding for Mental Health program in the Department of Corrections by $58.5 million.
 Increases funding for Adult Redeploy by over 50%.
Juvenile Justice
 Department of Juvenile Justice budget is increased by $14.7 million.
o Increases educational staffing in our juvenile justice system by 60 positions.
o Invests $5 million in Juvenile Redeploy.
o Invests additional $3.1 million in Aftercare compared to FY15.
Department of Children and Family Services
 Improving and reforming the state’s Department of Children and Family Services is a top priority of the administration.
 Adults who will no longer receive services from DCFS can receive services from other State agencies for which they are eligible.
Public Health
 Adds 50 nursing home surveyor staff to improve safety in nursing homes.
Medicaid
 Leaves intact health and human services programs for children, including children of immigrants.
 Minimizes services reductions to adult population.
 Re-institutes SMART Act reforms to save $320 million.
 Saves $75 million by reinstating aggressive review of eligibility.

PK-12 Education
 Increases early childhood education by $25 million.
 Puts about $300 million more into K-12 classrooms.
 Most money for education general state aid in Illinois history.

Higher Education
 Preserves funding for community colleges.
 Preserves funding for MAP grants.
 Continues to fund other grants including those for children of police officers, fire fighters, and correctional officers killed or disabled in the line of duty.
 The budget reductions are less than 6% of the universities’ total budgets.
 The state universities have endowments totaling over $2.5 billion.
 Illinois is the 5th most populous state in the country but #4 in support for higher education. That remains true after these savings.

Department of Commerce and Economic Opportunity/Historic Preservation
 Folds Historic Preservation Agency into the Department of Commerce and Economic Opportunity.
 Establishes the Abraham Lincoln Presidential Library and Museum as an independent entity.
 Merges the Local Tourism Fund, International Tourism Fund, and the Chicago Travel Industry Promotion Fund into the Tourism Promotion Fund (TPF) to reduce the number of state funds.
Transportation
 Increases funding to road and state construction fund by $120 million to $1.85 billion.
 The reduction to RTA is 4.4 percent of its budget. State of Illinois will continue to provide $131 million of support for the RTA’s Strategic Capital Improvement Bonds.
 The state subsidy for downstate transit will be what the agencies expended in FY2014, and the state remains the primary funder of downstate public transit system.
Local Governments
 The amount of money transferred to local governments has grown 42 percent over the past decade.
 The state currently transfers $6 billion every year to local governments.
 Those governments currently have cash reserves of over $15 billion.
 The reduction to local governments is 3 percent of their budgets.
 Even with the reduction, Iowa, Indiana, Missouri & Kentucky share less revenue with local governments as a percentage of their total budgets.
Bureaucracy
 Reins in total costs by nearly $3 billion.

o Pension Reform:
 Saves taxpayers over $2.2 billion in FY 2016.
 Saves taxpayers over $100 billion over 30 years.
 Immediately improves the state’s unfunded liability by $25 billion.
 State employees get to keep what they’ve already earned, but beginning July 1, all newly earned benefits will be equal to the benefits available to state employees hired after 2011.
 Eliminates spiking.
 Excludes police and fire.
 Eliminates overtime in determining pension benefits.
 Gives employees hired before 2011 a buyout option – a lump sum payment and a defined contribution plan in return for a voluntary reduction in cost-of-living adjustments.
 The plan is constitutional as it does not reduce earned benefits.

o Group Health:
 Saves $700 million by bringing costs more in line with the taxpayers who pay for the state employee benefits.
 The per employee premium cost of the program has more than the doubled over the past 15 years, and the per employee premium cost is currently 23 percent higher than the national average.



WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Never heard of one entity being responsible for another's utility bills.

 

Duff,
The State is responsible for the States entity's , think "State Park" ... You don't really think anyone would put someone in such a position right on site at the State Park, do you ..? WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Think renter, just because the former tenant has an outstanding utility bill, doesn't mean the new tenant can't have service.

 

Duff,
That is not always true, there are provisions in the law where by a building and or entire shopping center may be subjected to not having power depending on how things are written up between the renter and the land lord or rentor ... The State makes the payments on the States holdings (entity's) in most cases with very rare exception ... When I worked for a city (Fire Dept), each station got a bill, it went to the Chief who in turn gave it to the city for payment ... The phones were all one line for Police and Fire, we never got any bills on them ... States and city's work separately of each other , but the State pays for State ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

WPT,

The other thing is, what do these meters even go to? Are there only two meters on the property? Do the individual tenants have their own meter they are responsible for?

 

Dancing duff is right in a way. The Grand can go on forever you just need one thing, money. I'm sure duffer has it all figured out as too where the monies coming from but remember 12 mil doesn't buy like it used too

 

Realistic Duff just knows, more people want it to continue and succeed, than those that want to tear it all down, at all costs.

 

People aren't against the Grand. People are against the costs of continuing at Sparta. There are better alternatives if enough shooters start looking.

 

The only one that needs convincing is the Governor of Illinois as he is the guy with the power to reopen or keep it closed. That is reality.

 

Most of us knew this would or could be a problem of ATA moving the Grand to a gun unfriendly state as Illinois. To make it more of a problem was it was going to a state owned site. Anything owned by the state in any state is risky as you are held to the whims of the politicians. As they say "Guns have two enemy's RUST and POLITCIANS."

 

Ok, I guess the governor has the power and the inclination to not let the IDNR enter into a lease agreement.

 

So, lets again go back in time, of the final choices, which site would have been better?

 

There's no need to go back in history. The ATA is now in a position it can't afford so it needs to look forward. The facility need not be that large as the Grand is now down to less than 2000 in its largest event.

 

Who's paying for future events at the WSC?

 

What future events?

 

You know there is no creditable answer to that question.

 

Been there. Done that! Illinois defaulted on the lease...as per Gipson.

 

Again, believe whatever you want.

 

I believe we will all have a better understanding of how confident the ATA and THOF feel, when we see the THOF artifacts moved from Ohio storage into the new Museum that Illinois owns.

 

Duff,
Because people look at factual presentations that have been posted all over the shooting sites, State of Illinois web sites, Ill Gov Rauners web site, reboot Illinois.com web site, and on and on then respond to those postings does not mean any one does not want to see a continuation of the grand ... If you can look at and read anything that has been posted and say in good conscience that dealing or negotiating with the State of Illinois,(IDNR) for a continuation of any agreements between the State and the ATA have been positive PLEASE point them out specifically so we can all get the warm and fizzy feeling you must be feeling about what you have observed and read ... The State of Illinois is UP SIDE DOWN in any and every way possible , people are leaving the State due to tax increases and anticipated Tax increases yet to be established and put into place ... Many issues the State is confronted with are issues that people depend on to live, and kids to get educations, and drug addicts to get assistance in getting more and better drugs and guns and ammo, Elderly people being attended to for health and housing issues, section 8 Mothers having a place to have and raise more illegitimate kids, not a place in Randolf County for trap shooters to come and play for 2 weeks out of the year and add to the States already up side down financial situation ... IF the grand goes on it will be at a GREAT EXPENSE to the members (all members) of the association, not just those who attend and should be liable for the additional expenses incurred ... The ATA turned its back on the members, now the members are turning their back to the ATA, just proves what goes around, comes around ... Have a good time at the grand and bring money, lots of it because you'll need it ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Re posted from 06-15 , Gov Rauners position :

BUDGET + TAX / Article
June 12, 2015
Taxpayers in a broke state shouldn’t be footing the bill for Sparta’s World Shooting and Recreation Complex.

In light of the Illinois General Assembly’s failure to send him a balanced budget, Gov. Bruce Rauner announced another round of spending reductions on June 12 to better manage the state’s precarious finances.

Included on his list is a suspension of operations for a shooting complex run by the Illinois Department of Natural Resources. Effective Sept. 1, all operations at the World Shooting and Recreation Complex in Sparta, Illinois, would cease and the facility would be closed to the public.

As detailed by the Illinois Policy Institute in a 2010 “Spotlight on Spending” brief, the facility has fallen short on many fronts:

“The World Shooting and Recreation Complex (WSRC) in Sparta, Illinois was completed in 2006 at a construction cost of $31.5 million (as well as another $18 million for road, water, and sewer improvement). The 1,600-acre facility includes 746 RV campsites, 120 trap shooting fields, and a 34,000 square foot events center.

“The state-funded facility came fully loaded with high expectations. In August 2004, State Representative Dan Reitz said the World Shooting and Recreation Complex ‘will be the only state park in the state of Illinois that makes money.’ In June 2005, the director of the Illinois Department of Natural Resources (IDNR), estimated the complex would bring the state about $50 million to $100 million in economic development each year, once up and running.

“Has the Complex lived up to its hype? Not exactly. In fact, the Complex’s total projected revenue collection from fiscal year 2004 through fiscal year 2011 falls short of the total amount the state appropriated to the Complex by more than $1.5 million. …

“The expected benefit of increased economic activity has also not come to fruition. After the World Shooting and Recreation Complex opened in the summer of 2006, the raw sales tax data from the City of Sparta shows a slight decline in sales tax receipts in following years. When the tax receipts are adjusted for inflation, the decline becomes more dramatic, dropping below 2002 levels.”

The Sparta complex was also featured in the Institute’s 2010 and 2012 “Piglet” books, which detailed wasteful spending across the state. Illinois spent over $3.3 million on the complex in 2012.

Rauner had previously not marked the Sparta complex for reduction, having made a budget recommendation this spring that kept the next fiscal year’s appropriation at the same level as the current-year level of $3.4 million.

By failing to transmit a balanced and constitutional budget to the governor, House Speaker Mike Madigan and Senate President John Cullerton are ultimately the ones responsible for the disruption caused by last-minute reductions – changes that could have otherwise proceeded in a more orderly fashion.

Taxpayers in a broke state should not be footing the bill for a local shooting complex. Illinoisans should hope this common-sense cut survives budget negotiations in the coming weeks.


WPT ... (YAC) ... All the news, all the time ...

 

If you remember the Big shoots in Vegas when we had Casinos on the strip giving special rates and parties for the shooters. Once the casinos started the card system (player tracking) when you checked in to the hotel and signed up for all the wonderful things they were giving you that included a card for there other promotions. Use this card when playing any of the games at the casino. Well the casinos found out that most of the shooters are cheap and don't spend a lot of money and not much on gambling. So the casinos stopped the funding as it was not a winning deal. If the State of Illinois had looked at that the state would have seen that the area economic impact would not have been so good. With that said that could have been the deal breaker.

 

Did you get that information from the local governments? Thats not the impression I got from talking to local residents last year at the Grand.

 

Leonardis,
Please tell us just how many locals you talked to, to come to the conclusion what Ken said was not accurate ..? You do realize that the number of people who visit Las Vegas on a daily basis far exceeds the population of Sparta, Ill don't you ..? The people who play at the casinos for "Comps" get them off of the gaming cards that was mentioned by Ken, I know because I have several of them and they can tell me exactly how much I have won, lost, and or played any time day or night 24/7 of the year ... You make statements that have to make people wonder if you just some young kid who just wants attention or a blabbering fool at times ... The gaming (member) cards are far more accurate than the guess's made by the ED and the ATA of generated revenues when they talk about millions of dollars (20/30 million) into the local economy and region ... If you talked to every single resident of Sparta, you have not talked to enough people to come close, I can assure you ... Think about what you are going to say, then thing about it again, then rather than look stupid just don't say it at all and read what people are saying , you'll be way ahead of the game ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

The State of Illinois has "Auditors" who can tell you how much money was generated, where , when, and how , not by guessing but by actual statistics they have for many, many years in the past as well as anticipated into the future ... They do not arrive at these actual numbers by talking to people on the street, at the grand, or any other place in particular , they arrive at the numbers by actual amounts of money generated in local economy's and or regions based on dividends paid into the State ... The state of Illinois has actually stopping sending out renewal notices to residents for auto registrations deeming it to be to expensive, this is something that generates multi millions of dollars for the state and cannot cost nearly what it generates ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Of course the locals feel they get a financial gain but it's nowhere near what was promised the state. The state has already stated in a number of releases that the investment in Sparta has been a big disappointment. The WSC is a losing proposition for the state period. No amount of blather on a website will change anything. The state is moving on from the WSC and it's doubtful it has a future beyond a year or two at best. Any future at all will be very expensive to the organization that decides to underwrite it financially.

 

Leonardis, What I was trying to get out is Trapshooters are not big spenders. Other than lodging and food what do they spend their money on? At Sparta lodging and eating are limited. Campers stay at the WSC and bring a lot of what they eat with them. So they are not out shopping. What else do you have?

 

Based on the taxes generated in Sparta (proper) and paid into the State even the locals do not have much celebrate about ... The taxes generated in Sparta and the region have been on the decline since the opening of the WSRC according to the States records ... The place that pays the most amount of taxes in Sparta and the region is WalMart so be careful what you wish for ... This is all a matter of public record and can be verified on the State of Illinois web site for anyone who cares ... They had a population explosion in Sparta, two kids were born on the same day at the local hospital ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

WPT,

What does this statement mean?

Also, looking at the sales tax revenue issue, there is no way, all the people that show up at the WSRC for any type of event would mean a decline in tax revenues. What it means is, there is another reason, and it would be that much worse, if the additional out of towners didn't show up there.

 

Every state park in Illinois loses money, are they going to shut them all down?

 

Stupid comment Duffer, this state park was planned to be profitable from day one. Of course it's fun to rewrite history isn't it?

 

You really have no understanding of how government works do you?

 

To both of you,

The statement that keeps being repeated is, the WSRC is losing the state money. Therefore, if that is the repeated argument, then the state should close every state park. It's not "rewriting" history. It doesn't matter what the projections where twenty years ago, budgets deal with the here and now.

 

Duff,
I intentionally typed it as slow as I could so you could keep up ... Read it and weep, the state has lost money even on the amount of taxes paid (collected) since the opening of the WSRC not to mention keeping the place operational which adds to the deficit annually ... Please, I only post the news, I don't write it .... (again typed slow for Duffer) ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Leonidas lives in Sparta he has no add'l travel or eating expenses, he just goes home, so he has no idea of any expenses


GB............................DLS

 

Is a state park supposed to make money? I thought they were built for family activities, I have not seen a state park that was built to make money.

GB....................DLS

 

WPT,

I don't know what type of taxes you're talking about.

Which ever you are, let me know and tell me what the pre WSRC tax revenue was, and what it is now.

 

duff, these guys will argue the sky is pink with purple dots if they thought it would be disrespectful to the ATA. An amazing group they are.

 

You know I'm saving some of this negative chit to spoon feed the doom & gloom posters after the Grand is over.
Besides, most of them don't even shoot anymore, so what's their problem ?

 

Duffer and Leonidas, you're comparison of Sparta to other state parks while convenient to your point is totally wrong. There's no way around that fact. The state set out to build the WSC to make a profit. To allow the IDNR to oversee it in its domain they set it up as a state park. The fact other state parks don't make a profit is meaningless as they were never planned and built to make money for the state. They were planned to break even at best. The WSC was planned and built to provide a home grounds to a large organization that would provide a substantial profit to the state on a yearly basis. Two totally different planned outcomes on two totally different entities. Much the same as you two as when compared to educated individuals with the ability to understand and debate without use of false comparisons. I'll will admit you both get A's for trying to rewrite history.

 

I'm curious about that sales tax drop that is copied over and over. It is common sense that the WRSC has not negatively impacted sales tax revenue for the City of Sparta, my initial guess is that the comparison is not adjusted for some unusual situation. Possibly sales tax was extremely high in the base year of comparison because there was a lot of business going on there as it was being built?

The City of Sparta in 2014 claimed sales tax revenues increase on average over 26 percent during the Grand, and smaller competitions generate up to $600,000 annually.

 

Look it doesn't matter about the money. You have a Democrat controlled legislature and a Republican Governor locked in a battle over a budget. It's all about the course the State will take. Everything is a "Political Decision" to further their agenda. It matters not if the WRSC ever opens as it's nothing more than fodder in this battle. If shutting down the WRSC furthers the Governors agenda he will do it and frankly the anti gun folks in the Illinois Legislature would just as soon see it close so it's chance of survival is very small and it's time people start accepting that fact.

 

Well said Lady T.

 

Lady T,

So what you are saying it matters not that this battle of political parties is happening in Illinois and effecting the Grand because it is a political thing that can (and probably) will happen in any other State.

With that being said why is all the attention focused on the demise of the ATA and the Grand?

 

Shutting down the WSRC is not what the Governor wanted or wants to do. If you read the provided information you would have realized it.

 

Duff and Leonardis
The tax information I was talking about is posted on the State of Illinois web site, seek and you shall find, that's how I did it ... You can read and sort everything about the taxes in the local area as well as that region and its not pretty ... (google is your friend, use it ) ... I tried to post it and it would not let me copy and paste (could be Win10) not sure but its there and all public record ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

The State of Illinois is anticipating generated revenue increase of 1.6 billion with the new tax increases they plan on putting in place ... The 1.6 billion will not quite cover the debt of 12.5 billion the state in already in the rears , but it will be a good start unless the State continues to lose tax payers from them relocating to other states (Indiana is on a record setting pace) that are not faced with the financial woes the State of Illinois is saddled with ... The State of Illinois much like the ATA is operating on an "anticipated income" if by chance the ATA takes control of the facility (WSRC) for 3 or 4 months which obviously has not been determined and agreed to as of yet ... The ATA has not posted anything that is "absolute" for those vendors or members who do or have attended the grand in the past so they can make plans other than one vendor who claims he has a lease agreement for the grand in 2016 , if there are others they have not said anything or advertised they will be attending ... The State of Illinois is separating itself from any and all involvement other than the binding agreement they have with the State workers and the Union that represents them, obviously these people will be included as part of the package that the State will eventually present to the ATA for the temporary agreement ... The only obstacle that appears to be in limbo is the finalized agreement between the State of Illinois (IDNR) and the ATA with the State not able to negotiate until after 04-15-16 so the matter can be laid to rest ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

WPT,

That is a fair and accurate assessment of the situation.

The ATA and IDNR have said, the Grand will be there this year. As you stated, it's only the details that have to be ironed out, and announced. If the "three men in the room" agree upon a budget, then all this is moot, as the lease will still be valid as long as the ATA signs off, which they already said they would.

As far as vendors go, (I would think, meaning it's my opinion) if they have a multi year lease, they have a lease that is still in effect, depending on language. If they sign a lease year to year, they too are precluded from negotiating until 4/15.

Opinions may vary, facts never do.

 

When did the IDNR say that? Checked with the IDNR and they say no events are scheduled.

 

I pretty much share the same opinion. Perhaps it is easier to understand by saying that if the IDNR or ATA defaults on the lease, the lease becomes null & void, unless the parties agree to leave it in place by not declaring a default.

The ATA did initiate a letter claiming the IDNR did default and that's where its hard to understand how/why the lease can still be in effect. Both parties seem to feel they still have a lease so I guess they do. However, due to existing circumstances the IDNR can only open the WSRC to shooting events if the ATA is acceptable to giving up what they had and settling for less. I assume the ATA is prepared to accept additional expenses in order to hold the AIM and GAH tournaments.

Here's the notice the ATA gave to vendors back in December 2015 regarding a lease extension by the IDNR:

 

HB,

The ATA notified the IDNR in order to preserve their right to declare the lease void and/or to move, if required. It also says in the lease the offended party can give an extension(s), which the ATA has done.

As I know, you have a copy of the new lease, and you can very easily verify the language.

 

Go to the video, about the 2 minute mark.

 

Well in case you haven't realized it yet the Grand is held in Illinois. The budget battle that has closed the WRSC is in Illinois. The Legislature and Governor are elected Illinois officials so that is why we are talking about what is happening in Illinois.