Stat's for Registered Targets Thrown

I found this page very interesting. Allowed me to look at my favorite clubs and see how they stack up against other clubs across the nation for number of registered targets thrown.

http://www.shootata.com/Portals/0/pdf/2015_Total_Targets_By_Club.pdf

 

FlaLagarto,

What would be more interesting, would to be able to compare the totals to the same clubs 10 or 15 years ago. Also to see how many clubs are no longer throwing ATA shoots. Also how many new clubs are throwing ATA shoots. History Buff. can you help with this? Roger C.

 

A word of caution when viewing this information: not all target totals are accurate! Note Cardinal Center shows 1,924,850 targets. Further down the list you will see the Ohio State Trapshooting Association "threw" 938,900. The OSTA targets are from the Ohio State Shoot which is shot at the Cardinal Center. Cardinal Center's actual total registered birds should be 2,863,750. I can only assume there are other clubs on the list that host State shoots that may be misrepresented in the same way. I brought this to the attention of the ATA last year and they basically told me that they would show the targets thrown in whatever fashion they choose to.

 

Don't you think the target counts are from WHO runs the shoot, not necessarily where the shoot was held. Some states rotate their State Shoot so the way the ATA reports the target count would reflect State Shoot targets.

No big deal on how the ATA shows its target count either.

 

Leonidas,
That's an interesting way to look at this issue. In the case of the Ohio State shoot, the Cardinal Center is host club paying a per target fee to the OSTA for providing trophies, classification personnel and shoot off personnel. So who is running the shoot? How are targets shot at satellite Grands viewed (where the host club purchases trophies from the ATA and often have ATA officials working the classification desk)? You say no big deal on how the ATA shows "it's" target count. I submit to you that the target count is the club's, not the ATA's. The OP states that he looks at the information as a way to see how his favorite clubs stack up against other clubs across the nation. The OP is a traveling vendor at shoots. If I were in his business or a similar shooting related business, it would be in my best interest to set up at clubs drawing the most shooters. Why not just show the actual number of registered targets thrown at the clubs? Isn't that what a list entitled "target totals by club" should do?

 

I would rather see the targets thrown for the state shoot separate from the club... I know several states rotate their State shoot so it would be easier to see which clubs drew the biggest attendance.

 

Don, With all due respect the same can be said for knowing how big State shoots are without the added targets of the club shoots through out the target year.

 

I believe total targets thrown at Cardinal Center at the 2015 Ohio State Shoot was 9,220,000 if my figures are correct, this does not include any practice or shootoff targets thrown

Gary Bryant....................Dr.longshot

 

The curve thrown at this figures is Pennsylvania State shoot had 22 events, and Ohio State shoot had 15 events so there was not an equal amount of events according to RJ Stuart records, RJ Stuart does not show Event 1 of the PA State shoot could be a typographical error, look at his web site at Winners then look at events and you will see what I mean, then look at Ohio State shoot. So we cannot do this fairly due to discrepancies.

Gary Bryant.........................Dr.longshot

 

9 MILLION, 22o THOUSAND and 000 HUNDRED for the Ohio State shoot?

And they only threw ONE million, 924 thousand and 850 targets the rest of the year!

 

9.2 million.. .Really ??? are you trying to use the common core math?? If so I don't think you have a good grasp of it

Someone once told me that PA state shoot was bigger then OH... and PA only threw 1.2 million

WOW... OH state shoot is 8X's as big as PA... amazing!!

 

FlaLagarto, thank you for bringing this to everyone's attention. But if I may take the conversation a bit farther, I'd like to focus on another very important area on this "Targets By Club" accounting.

It seems to me that our ATA officials continue to place more importance the Grand American and Satellite tournaments while paying little attention to its firm and successful foundation, i.e. the shooters, gun clubs and state associations. Each year the number of gun clubs registering targets with the ATA decreases.

In 2004, the ATA notes in the Average Book the following figures:
1. 34,920 ATA members
2. 6,613 registered tournaments
3. 84,806,630 total targets thrown
4. 1,096 registered ATA gun clubs

The 2014 Average Book has the following numbers :
1. 28,212 ATA members
2. 6,252 registered tournaments
3. 56,552,155 total targets thrown
4. 850 registered ATA gun clubs

If you count up the number of clubs on the "Targets by Club" pages I counted the number of clubs in 2015 to be about 954.

However, there were many on the list that did not throw a single target. How many? 115, and subtracting that number from the 954 total leaves 839. Of those 839 gun clubs, many are the State/Provincial Associations. I don't know how many State/Provincial Associations own their own gun club grounds but I know many do not.

My State Association is not a gun club but is credited with targets thrown during our State Shoot. Subtracting those entries from the listing diminishes the number of gun clubs throwing ATA registered targets to less than 839.

What's the breaking point when there is no longer enough gun clubs to support the ATA's expenses? I don't know.

What I do know is that our Executive Committee, Executive Director and our Board of Directors should be putting a little more effort into understanding the serious problems confronting us. The decline in our membership and gun clubs is apparent, yet everyone's worried about holding the Grand American Handicap tournament which attracts only a small portion of our membership base.

Someday there may not be a Grand American Handicap tournament if somebody doesn't turn around and face the real problems.

Just my view on the discussion.

HB

 

Leonidas,
I agree with you that it would be nice to see the attendance of the state shoots (actually all shoots) separately. I think that would make for an interesting list, albeit an extremely long list. My entire reason for commenting on this thread was to point out that the title of the ATA list "Total Targets by Club" is simply not accurate and does not give the viewer the Club's total targets.


In the case of the 2015 Ohio State shoot, the list indicates 938,900 targets by the OSTA. Setting aside the fact that the OSTA is not a gun club, using the paid attendance figures from RJ Stuart's website for events 1-14 would yeild 947,700 targets (events 3 and 12 are 200 bird events). Monday of the Ohio State shoot is our SCTP Day and the 200 bird event the kids shoot is registered but those targets apparently accrue to the total for Cardinal Center, not the OSTA's total? Can't figure that one out either.


Assuming "control of the shoot" to be the determining factor of where targets appear on the list brings me to question targets shot at the MTA home grounds in Mason, Michigan. It is my understanding that the MTA owns and operates the facility for all registered shoots held there. The ATA's list indicates targets shot there under both Michigan Trap Assn and Michigan Trapshooting Association. Do both those names refer to the same entity? If so, why separate the target counts?


I'm not smart enough to offer advise on the issues raised in HistoryBuff's post above. I can offer my own views and opinions on the Grand Tournament and the WSRC which are as follows: I hope the day never comes when our Grand American Tournament ceases to exist. I also cannot find it in my heart to be "happy" about ANY gun club or shooting facility having trouble or closing down. When clubs and shooting facilities close it is rare that they ever reopen and I think that is nothing but bad for all of us that enjoy the shooting sports. It is my hope that the WSRC will emerge successfully from its current situation and will continue to host the Grand American tournament.


Don

 

Correct me if I am wrong, if there were 358 entries in the handicap, would you not just put Two zeros behind the entries 358 00 each entry shot 100 targets, please correct me if I am wrong I took 358 X100 and got 35,800 targets thrown on this event.

GB...................DLS,

 

DLS,

Using RJ Stuart's numbers, the Ohio State Shoot had 8,317 entries spread over 14 events. Two of the events were 200 bird events (events 3 and 12). Event 3 had 258 entries and event 12 had 902 entries. Therefore 8,317 + 258 + 902 = 9,477. 9,477 x 100 targets = 947,700 total targets thrown. As I stated above, Monday's program targets accrued to the Cardinal Center's total, at least I assume they did. I cannot explain the discrepancy between the ATA's figure of 938,900 and the total obtained from simply adding up the number of entries x 100 targets.

Don

 

Did Ohio allow shooters to only shoot 100 targets of a 200 target event?? This could perhaps account for some of the difference.. (just guessing)

 

FlaLagarto,

RJ Stuart handles the cashiering / computer services for the Ohio State shoot. Over the years I have really come to know and appreciate Bob's talents and I'm very glad to have him at the Cardinal Center. However, I do not believe Bob's system is set up to allow a shooter to enter 1/2 of a 200 bird event. Having served as TD for the Ohio State shoot, I'm aware of the potential issues caused by allowing a "1/2 entry" but I think there are ways of dealing with those issues and I would like to see it offered. The trapshooting customer base contains many members that simply cannot shoot 200 doubles right down the line or even 200 birds in a day. For the 2015 Ohio State shoot I do not believe shooting only 100 of either 200 bird events was allowed.

 

Don, I agree.. we have shooters who either can't or don't want to shoot 200 singles. I think it would benefit Ohio to allow this.. targets in the air is money in the pocket. When Liz had her program written she had that option put in .. it's just a couple button clicks and makes the shooters happy.

 

In 2004, the ATA notes in the Average Book the following figures:
1. 34,920 ATA members
2. 6,613 registered tournaments
3. 84,806,630 total targets thrown
4. 1,096 registered ATA gun clubs

The 2014 Average Book has the following numbers :
1. 28,212 ATA members
2. 6,252 registered tournaments
3. 56,552,155 total targets thrown
4. 850 registered ATA gun clubs

Copied from History Buffs posting and reprinted , does any one see a problem ..? The ATA claims to promote trapshooting which does not seem to be the case according tho the figures and the gradual decline in 10 short years ... What ever they are doing, they should try just the opposite, this is not working ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Bill, Can you imagine what the results would be if the ATA was involved in a competitive business? It is hard to understand what their goals are. Roger C.

 

Roger,
If by chance the ATA was a business having to compete for customers they would of been gone and out of business years ago ... I do not really see that they have goals , seems to be more like personal agenda's , and financial gain has reared its ugly head once the Integrity and honor get eliminated ... The ATA is its own worse enemy but they will never accept it and or the blame for it happening, mush easier to blame anything or any body else .. This started well before the move to Sparta , which has done nothing to eliminate the problems and actually made them worse ... The State of Illinois is in trouble and that cannot help the situation in any way for all involved ... WPT ... (YAC) ...