Telephonic Grand back on the table...?

I heard from a delegate that the idea of a telephonic grand is back on the table. And why wouldn't it be?

 

Because so and so on the other site has a friend that secured a camping spot and he wouldn't do that if the grand wasn't going to be in Sparta this year. That may be true with Sparta just being one of many sites in a telephonic grand.

 

The ATA and the grand are doomed if that is what they plan on doing ... There are to many variables to make it work and be fair to all that would be involved ... It would be the end of the grand ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Here is why it's not a good idea.... I posted this some time ago when this idea was first being kicked around...
True Story: Several years ago, the PITA had some negotiating problems with the club that usually hosted the PITA Grand Pacific at that time. Unable to come to any resolution to the contract, the PITA decided to split the Grand Pacific between two clubs, Medford Gun Club in southern Oregon, and the Hillsboro Gun Club, in northern Oregon which would allow the Canadian shooters a closer club to shoot the Grand. It was a telephonic shoot. Shooters could choose the club they wanted to shoot and the scores would be called in to Medford, where everything was being handled. Now, these two clubs are as different to shoot as night and day. Long story short, over 90% of the winning Grand scores came from the Medford Gun Club, due solely to the shooting conditions at the time. The Medford club had perfect shooting weather, while the Hillsboro club fought clouds and wind for the entire week of the Grand..... When shooting the Grand, it is imperative that ALL shooters shoot the same club, the same targets, under the same conditions to determine the best of the best... Did this split work? As I recall, attendance was down considerably, and the resulting uproar this split Grand caused was not good.... I attended this Grand, and based on my experience, I would never shoot another telephonic Grand. As mentioned above, it just diminishes the whole concept of what the Grand represents and what it means to the membership.... Just my opinion...

 

The problem here is which is more destructive. No Grand or a telephonic grand. As it stands today there is no agreement and the IDNR and the ATA can talk all they want about agreements but the facts are without the Governor's OK or a budget is passed giving the IDNR the Authority to enter negotiations with the ATA there will be no Grand. The Governor shut it down and only the Governor can reopen it and I do not see the Governor giving up one of his bargaining chips in this Budget battle. What really scares me is the ATA will do anything to have the 2016 Grand in Sparta regardless of the damage it could do to the organization ( that means you, me and the other members) long term.

 

LadyT... The answer to that, in my opinion, is it would be more destructive to hold a telephonic Grand than it would be having no Grand at all. By splitting up the Grand between clubs it does nothing more than "water down" the Grand experience and, in the outcome, it is no longer the Grand", it's just another telephonic trap shoot that really has no meaning. If the ATA is going to hold the "Grand American", it must truly be a "Grand". That translates, to me, one shoot, held at the same place, with the same traps, same weather conditions, same targets, same conditions for everyone. Best shooter wins...How else can the best shooters be determined? A telephonic Grand American would open up a can of worms that can NEVER be closed, and with the current condition the ATA is in it is most likely not going to be well received by the membership. What you are suggesting is that let's have the Grand just to have it, just so we have another shoot, regardless of how many clubs are involved. What's the point? What will it prove? It would be just a desperate move by the ATA to try to take some of the pressure off the EC and BOD for making a colossal mistake that can't be undone. Bottom line is you either have the Grand as it has always been or don't have it at all......

 

I see your point.

 

I hope a telephonic grand is a no go. I like my idea of a Grand at different locations, One West On Even Years and One East on Odd years. So every other year you have one closer to you. Every body shoots the Same targets, and Weather Conditions

Gary Bryant..........................Dr.longshot

 

One shoot and one shoot only, as close to the center of the majority of shooters as possible. And be done with it. And while i'm bitching, no other shoots that have the word Grand associated with it. It's just prostituting our #1 championship shoot. There i said it.

 

Y'all fight all you want.. come Aug. I'll be in Sparta. Sure bet in my book..

PS. Bring Sun Screen, it's going to be hot

 

Bro,
I hope a bunch of new shooter show up and they all need new ear protection ... That is if the gates are open and they let anyone in ... Its going to be costly any way you look at it if the State is not involved to absorb the loss ... Maybe they can take up a collection ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Check the attendance at the GAH last year there is only one Big Show and that was it?

 

David
Used to have 4000-5,000 in an event> Another embarrassing year.

 

Heck .... only 40,000 people attend the Wisconsin State Cow Chip Throw. http://www.wiscowchip.com/

So .... it has to be a "fantastic direction" for a couple of thousand to participate in a World Event at a World Event Center ....

 

Yes, but you are talking something that is obviously organized and not off the beaten path ... Those Cheese heads know how to throw a party and the Wisconsin Cheddar is worth the drive ... There is a place that opened down here in Arizona , guy from Tomah, Wis got all of the Wisconsin favorites on his menu, no better BRAT's any place ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Look at the PAGE of Event Sponsors .... http://www.wiscowchip.com/index.php/2014-sponsors

They probably don't have to spend 136k plus for hot air .... so it has to be the available All American points to attract the people to toss cow turds.

 

Telephonic grand. We could have it on one day. Just shoot the last event (one and only) at our clubs. Drink beer afterwards and talk about the days when trapshooting was great.

It will be a fun evening afterward talking about the days long ago before Neil's target settings. The days before we moved to a gun hating state.

Yep. A telephonic grand would be great.

 

You will not be shooting trap that is one thing for sure. There is no lease, there is no authorization for the IDNR and the ATA to negotiate the use of the WSRC for the Grand. No Budget = No Grand. And even if a budget is passed that does not mean a thing since everything revolves around authorization to enter agreements with the ATA or funding for the operation of the WSRC

 

I believe the Governor's office/counsel probably gave approval for the ATA and IDNR to enter into the Memorandum of Understanding. Both parties want the 2016 Grand American Handicap tournament to happen. Illinois cannot live up to their initial agreement, nor the 2011 lease extension due to no funds. The ATA has expressed a willingness to accept the financial responsibility of the IDNR and that will be a huge sum of money.

Under normal circumstances, the ATA just could not afford to lease the WSRC for just the 2-weeks of the Grand American let alone the 4 months specified in their new agreement. Except, now with big sponsorships, they believe they can be the WSRC caretaker and will not suffer a huge loss in doing so.

I sure hope they've thought everything over, from daily cleaning of buildings, trash removal and ice and water for shooters. They are taking on a costly endeavor for sure.

 

As a MOU isn't worth the paper it is written on. Exponentially less than the previously lease broken by the state.

 

I agree but is some cases I've read that if an MOU contains all the required principles, it can be legally binding. I don't know this to be factual though since I'm not a legal scholar.

It appears that the only thing the MOU grants both parties is an attempt to have good faith negotiations to permit the ATA to lease the WSRC facility from May thru August if the IDNR is not open for shooting business by April 15th.

The IDNR makes no commitment except to maintain minimum operations and . . . . .

The ATA has the right to continue to look for other places to hold the Grand American tournament.

It also appears that by sending a notice of default, the old lease agreement is terminated and the IDNR now can negotiate an entirely new lease agreement in the future which could cost the ATA and its members who shoot at the WSRC a bit more money.

What a fine mess we've gotten into.

 

History Buff It would take a long time in court to get a ruling. More time than the sport has to decide on a location for 2016. Roger C.

 

How can there be a MOU when they said in the video that they cannot negotiate anything until after 15 April which means there is nothing on paper. Not a single period. Nothing. The other item I think most do not see is this. Why on earth would the Governor who is in a battle with the democrats in the Il. legislature over the budget just up and backtrack on his decision to close the WRSC and give up a bargaining chip in this budget battle. He knows the ATA isn't going to go anywhere so he can burn them without consequence. It's not like everyone that goes there lives and votes in the State of Illinois.

 

The State of Illinois is in no hurry to agree to anything, the closer the dates of the grand get the less time the ATA will have to think about and make up its mind to accept or reject the States offering and terms of what ever agreement finally comes to be ... This will increase the pressure for the ATA to just make a move out of desperation and go ahead with it or not have any shoot any place if they do not have a plan "B" in place ... The State of Illinois is not going to be any part of the grand other than they will own the facility, if the ATA rents or leases it they and any Co Sponsor's will have to accept the responsibility of all cost for an agreed on length of time ... The State of Illinois has contributed to the ATA by covering the expenses of the facility for the past 11 years and added to the deficit to the tune of over 23 million dollars , all good things come to an end ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

HistoryBuff, Merlo told me the MOU is coming on this site for everyone to read sometime tonite. Then everyone can read it for themselves and make up their own minds what it says and means. Like I said before I've read it. Brad

 

Wow,

Wouldn't be wonderful ~~~ IF ~~~

The IDNR agrees to lease the Shooting complex to the ATA for 1 (One) Dollar per year, for the next 10 years ?

Dreaming on ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

Lady T... would you like to bet dinner at Southside Rib on that ???

 

And the SCTP will be there? And the U. S. Open will be there. And...and....and....bullshit.

 

grand? Who cares anymore?