Trapshooting Hall of Fame Cost Issues--Bradford Letter

I just got this in an e-mail, everyone check it out and I'll break it down latter. Brad

TRAPSHOOTING HALL OF FAME BUILDING REPORT
September 15, 2015

Our Hall of Fame project is nearly complete. Our precious artifacts, photo’s, and library remain safe in storage. Our guns remain safe on display with the NRA Museum. We await settlement of IDNR budgeting issues.

The 9200 square feet facility has extensive wall and ceiling space to accommodate exhibits. Presently we are awaiting exhibition cabinetry, display cases, wall coverings, etc.–all special order items.

The building is quite attractive and has a very high quality of interior finish, carpet, tile, lighting; high windows and ceilings add to the vastness of the interior.

Our architect was the original architect for the WSRC, now in private practice; Randy was able to tie our building into the overall theme of the WSRC grounds.

Lots of speculation regarding total cost of the structure….very little has changed since the ground breaking, last August. Punch list deficiencies are being rectified on a timely basis.

PROJECT COST
Original Ground Survey $18,550
And Geo Tech Investigation
Guaranteed Price of Building (Overhead & Profit Inclusive) $1,500,000
Single Change order, Lawn, Parking Lot,
Fire Suppressant System (Overhead & Profit Inclusive) $107,000
Architect Fees $119,000
Design Builders Fee $80,350
Total $1,824,900
Interior Finish
Exhibit Cabinetry, Display Cases, Wall Coverings, etc. $300,000
TOTAL COST $2,124,900

The Hall of Fame goes through a Certified Audit by a CPA firm each fiscal year…every revenue dollar is accounted for as is every expense invoice.

The Hall of Fame has been built by donations…..presently pledges are approximately $380,000 less than total project cost….our capital campaign continues….tax deductible contributions are welcome.

There are no outstanding contracts or bills. There is a construction note in place secured by our portfolio. Don’t know if I can be anymore clear. Our artifacts and collectibles are in no danger and are not tied up in our construction loan.
Jim Bradford, Jr.
Chairman
Trapshooting Hall of Fame

 

Thanks Brad.

Am I the only person that does not see the glaring omission?

Too stunned now. I will comment more later. The huge omission highlights the HOF's perceived stupidity of the trapshooters and donors.

What is not there?

 

Hi Brad,

Thanks for posting the letter. There are some things that need more clarification. Is the auditing firm the same one that the ATA uses? Would the developers submit to an out side non involved audit? $163.00 PER SQ. FT. SEEMS A LITTLE HIGH. As there IS NO PROPERTY involved in the price. $199,350. seems a little high for the basic building that I seen.

I wonder if there is not a little fat built into some of the figures that were posted. Maybe the audit should be performed on the contractors to see where the payouts went? I have no problem with a contractor making a profit, but he is the only one that should be doing so.

Do we have any building contractors that could comment on the building and it's costs? If so please do so. If it must be in a private message that will be fine. Roger C.

 

Roger....that is the omission. No where in that report does it say or imply that donors bought a building for the State of Illinois. It does not even hint at such.

In my opinion it shows that they think the donors and trapshooters are too dumb to care and too dumb to ask. Who would know if it was not brought up on this site? Not one ATA delegate has come forward to tell us he knew the building was to be donated to Illinois.

Obviously Mr. Bradford did not think it was important to state ownership in the letter.

 

FG, I wonder what else Mr Bradford has forgotten to tell the members of the ATA. I wonder if he told the E.C. and B.O.D.? Omissions like these make it hard to place your trust in people. Roger C.

 

The Hall of Fame goes through a Certified Audit by a CPA firm each fiscal year…every revenue dollar is accounted for as is every expense invoice.

The Hall of Fame has been built by donations…..presently pledges are approximately $380,000 less than total project cost….our capital campaign continues….tax deductible contributions are welcome.

There are no outstanding contracts or bills. There is a construction note in place secured by our portfolio. Don’t know if I can be anymore clear. Our artifacts and collectibles are in no danger and are not tied up in our construction loan.
Jim Bradford, Jr.
Chairman
Trapshooting Hall of Fame

The members should see the yearly audit, would make them feel like they are a part of something and not someone on the outside looking in ...
The HOF was built by (with) donations with pledges $380,000 less than the cost of the project ...

No outstanding contracts of bills (they stated $380,000 less the the cost) so there has to be an outstanding bill and or contract someplace to someone , probably payable on completion ... (Who knows ????)

" There is a construction note in place secured by our portfolio" on a building that is not owned by the Association but secured by the portfolio of the ATA ... Wonder who is responsible for the payments on the construction loan ..? The State of Illinois owns it so it would be theirs to secure and pay for if logic and common sense is applied ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

WPT,

The members should see the yearly audit, would make them feel like they are a part of something and not someone on the outside looking in ...

Please understand, There are NO MEMBERS to the Trapshooting Hall of Fame, period.

Only a BOT who oversee the operation of this.

Several years ago Doc Parsons pushed to have the logo changed back to show the 1969 where the ATA was. This was approved, and changed BUT now I see the that "ATA" has been put back in where the 1969 was...Wonder why ? Ha!

 

WPT,

When the members loose trust in any organization it is doomed to failure. The leaders of the ATA have shrouded the organization. so that the people that are supporting it have no say in it's operations. This fosters mistrust of them. They have brought this on them selves, and as the members have no say anymore, it is up to them as leaders to reinstall the trust in their leadership. Many of the members are to ignorant to realize the harm that has been done to our organization, they must be informed of the trust that has been lost.

I do not want to see the demise of the ATA, I want to see it realined to the organization it once was. We had strong competitors, no rampant cheating, and a well run organization. The cheaters must be eliminated, from the ranks and from management. Roger C.

 

$200,000 to design and draw a pole barn?

 

Roger,
Could not agree more, the wedge driven (Trust) between the members and the EC/BOD has caused many more problems that it caused cure for, that's for damn sure ... I also agree with not wanting to see the demise (end of) the ATA but can sure see reason and cause for a total turn around and elimination of the problems as they exist today ... The EC has its own agenda and it does not benefit the membership, that's the problem and the BOD backs them which only complicates matter even worse ... I always say if there is nothing to hide, then hide nothing ...

320090T,
Can you imagine the cost if it would of been a real building ..? WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Gentlemen,
I see where Jim Bradford feels that he is expecting further contributions in spite of all that has transpired at the WRSC and the expetant closeure due to a budget failure by the State of Illinois.
Bradford acknowledges that there is a construction loan of some $ 380,000 plus the costs of the interior cabinets and display cases of $ 300,000, total outstanding by my figuring
$ 680,000. My question who is backing this construction loan as Bradford stated secured by our portfolio ( is this the ATA ) and does Bradford expect to receive donations to cover this total costs in spite of the current situation plus the fact that the State of Illinois will own the building. Many including some delegates did not know this many shooters still are unaware of this.
What if anything are the plans for the HOF if the WRSC closes for any amount of time, again it appears that the people responsible for the ATA and the HOF have their heads in the sand

 

Based on the location of the HOF building and the turmoil with the States budget and the funding for the WSRC in question, I have serious doubts anyone is going to get in line to make donations to the State via the HOF committee for the completion of the interior ... Its been months now all of a sudden a letter gets posted that is (in a round about way) asking for the money to complete the building ... No news to date, now comes the bad news people ... The State is going to be the owner of record so they should pay for the completion of the project ... If the HOF got involved to the point of making contracts with anyone, they were totally out of line and should not of made a move unless they knew what they were doing as well as who was responsible for it from a financial stand point ... Talk about the blind leading the blind, and a giant cluster F*%$ this has to be a continuation of it in spades ... I can't wait for the movie to come out to see how it all turns out ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

This is shaped like a rectangle. It took some thought!

 

Oldphart
What delegate(s) knew and what delegates did not? As you wrote that statement it seems to imply that delegates were not told before the vote that the state would own the HOF.

 

You jackasses owe almost $400,000 on a building you don't own? $250K given to the gun hateful state by the ATA. And yet you need to beg for another 300K to finish the job inside. LOL

 

One glaring question I have is the 18,550 for a original ground survey. Why would you have to survey a piece of ground when the same owner (Illinois DNR) has title to the building? Did each trap field have an original survey, each vendor building, each camp space? Here in Ohio since I own the ground I don't have to survey my property to build a barn. You have to file a survey if you are subdividing a piece of property and then file it with the county but not to do construction on your property, of course here in Ohio I don't need a foid card to by ammo, I can open carry without a permit or conceal carry with a permit. Ohio doesn't have most x govenors in jail, but we also don't have the grand or the HOF either, still I wouldn't trade my farm or business here for what the ATA's got going for it. Brad

 

I saw that and wondered that same thing! Floating a smaller pot of cash possibly?

I've always believed that dealing with government owned shooting clubs is a lesson in futility. Almost all that I'm aware of has had problems when compared to group or privately owned gun clubs. History tells us the futility in dealing with governments of any kind?

HAP

 

We have to find out who PULL LLC is and what involvement they have with the ATA buying the piece of property from them in Sparta, Illinois ... I got a feeling the HOF is one thing but the ATA did purchase or lease the building for the ATA offices from PULL LLC and something is really getting to stinking about that deal ... Nothing to Hide, Hide Nothing but I do not think that is the case ... The PLOT thickens ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

WPT.

Find out where the PULL LLC. is incorparated and you can get a list of the stock holders. Roger C.

 

WPT,

PULL LLC. Was inc. in Ill. It was involuntary dissolved on 08-12-2011. The manager was Hasnain, Syed Jafer. 558 Vine St. Hinsdale, Ill. 60521.
Next; Try the county recorders office and get the info on the property transfer. Post your results. Roger C.

 

Pretty nice looking office.

https://www.redfin.com/IL/Hinsdale/558-N-Vine-St-60521/home/18033086#!

 

Try looking up ~~~ 2012 PULL, LLC.

incorporated in Junction City, KS

This may be the one they were referring to ?

 

I got this feeling that some kinky deals were getting pushed through in more ways than one when you look at all of the transactions even when it came to getting an office for the operation ... The State of Illinois site shows the public records of real estate transactions and I cannot find this one either by name and or address ... I have no doubt its there, I am just not finding it for some reason ... I will try to find it under the 2012 Pull LLC and see if anything pops up ... Goes back to the if you have nothing to hide, hide nothing thing once again ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

I'm sure everything can be explained quite easily. They just haven't found the right person to do the explaining. Obviously everything is on the up and up or our trusted leaders would certainly put an immediate stop to any shenanigans and alert the membership. There's always honor among, was it leaders? Honor among something. I can't seem to remember the old saying. Well I'm sure everything's fine. Besides this LLC stuff seems very confusing.

 

I'm sure there is a very logical explanation just what I don't know or would I care to speculate. Like Seitz 9010 said they haven't found the right person to do the explaining, but it appears to me as someone who isn't up on all the intricate ways of spending money just to spend it, appears like the Hall of Fame Board or whoever authorized the expenditure of the new bldg is head and shouilders above most of us.

 

Actually, the cost is $230/sf since no land cost was included. Parking, fire suppression, and site work are considered inclusive costs, so why was "lawn and parking" a change order?
Without seeing the plans and specs, and knowing the special construction and inspection conditions required by the State of Illinois (since the project is on State Park grounds), it is virtually impossible to comment on the cost per quare foot.

 

Rosey, Costs are costs no matter where they are. I only included the building it's self. That is a very high cost for the type of structure that it is. The whole town of Sparta is not worth much more than that one building. Roger C.

 

Is it just bad timing or does it all of a sudden seem like the HOF wants to include others into the fold (Bradfords Letter) when all the time the building was being constructed nothing was said to anyone (members) , but now that they need your check book you can be included also ... Come play with us, (pay at the door) and be a part of something ... The HOF seems to be operating on the same set of guidelines as the ATA itself with the exception of the bank accounts ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Perhaps the HOF should have purchased a couple tractor trailers so they could go on the road with the upcoming Grand American tour.

 

Seitz9010 !

This exact scenario was suggested (really) to one of the BOT of the THOF some time ago. A traveling Road Show of sorts, to show ALL trap shooters, not just those attending the GAH, some of the historical artifacts they have. Several ideas as to where to set it up were kicked around by a couple of us commoners to this BOT member.

Unfortunatly that BOT member had passed shortly after that discussion, and nothing ever became of it. He thought that suggestion (not mine originaly but I passed it on) had a lot of merit.

So, a joking idea of sorts had been given some consideration...

Perhaps this may be forthcoming when the smoke clears on Sparta.

 

Harley-Davidson used to have(maybe still do) a traveling museum that would be displayed at special events and at dealers across the country which worked very well.

 

Just think. They could have had a HOF for free. Land for free. Deed to the land for free. A construction crew for free. Deeded right of way for free. All this and on one of the busiest roads in the U.S.

Instead they built a $2.1 million building that needs another $600K. And it sits empty. It should aptly be named the MT Bradford HOF in honor of Jim Bradford and his pals.

 

Whoever is investigating FIFA needs to stick their nose in this stuff. I think we have some bad poobas.