Is it time to create another organization?

The SCTP shoots are bigger than the Grand. Where is the ATA management taking the sport?

Family Guy’s pictures of the youth shoots show enthusiasm. People aren’t flocking to Illinois. Just wondering.

 

well said User1, THE RANK AND FILE IN THE ORGANIZATION HAVE MANY REASONS TO QUIT REGISTERED SHOOTING.
Easier targets have taken the thrill out of the the accomplishment of, running a field, a 100 straight, making the 27 yrd. line.
Also the shooters that remember those thrills have lost faith and trust in the leaders of the sport. Many of them have not quit shooting they have just stopped registering targets, Why support something you do not have any feeling for. Trap will soon be equal to skeet,
where every shooter gets a little ribbon as a prize. Along drawn out for a sport that was once a noble sport. SAD BUT TRUUE.
Roger C.

 

Roger, If you really feel that way why in the world do you continue to shoot ATA registered targets?

 

My wife and I watched a Netflix movie titled 'Death by a Thousand Cuts'. This is what trapshooting is experiencing now.

 

if you have 2 rats in a cage and one gets fed more than the other, the stronger will eat the weaker one. one will continue to dominate.
having 2 equal rats in a cage, getting equal food, the 2 will still fight and they wont co-exist in harmony.

thus the capitalist business model. the weak are destroyed, the stronger survive. its what forces business' to be creative to survive the competition.

the problem with shooting in general is.....

the scientists on the other side of the cage who push the buttons that feed the rats keep pushing the button.

we are the scientists.

as long as the strong rat gets fed, he wins.

if you stop feeding the rat, the rat dies.

stop shooting. let it die. then put a new rat in the cage, or the 2 will fight.
-----------------

the reason sctp is thriving is......its not a rat, its a hamster in a different cage, being fed as much as they want by the scientists.( the gun industry and shooters in this example).
sctp doesn't have a competitor, thus they are enjoying the joy of lop-sided capitalism.

(its apples and oranges.) its an invalid comparison with ata.

 

The biggest problem with Trapshooting is old shooters who are no longer competitive with nothing to do but complain. The has beens and the never was beens are the worst. Maybe the best therapy for their condition is going out and watching these young kids who are good at the game break great scores. Irt wouldn't hurt to offer time and money to help their parents with the huge cost of shooting. Yes, I come from the era that the only advice you got from those old great shooters was bad while they watched you struggle.

 

Smokie, I do not shoot registered any more. Roger C.
PS Oleo, Why would anyone believe any thing you have to say. YOU ARE ONE OF THE CHEATERS THAT HELPED TO START THE SPORT ON ITS DOWN HILL SLIDE.
Roger C.

 

This is entertaining. User1's synopsis, as impressive as it is, assumes that everyone shoots trap for the same basic reason. Which would be self fulfillment, if I'm understanding correctly. Then bobski wants us all to quit in order to build a better rat trap. Hilarious!
As long as humans are involved there will be corruption. Surely we can find some good things that the ATA does. For any of us that would like to see things improve, we would have to be the ones to make it happen.
My answer to the trivia question from User1; I know Lou Morgan enough to call him a friend. And I would have to say it was the 20K!!

 

I can’t remember the year but Ohio had an insurance policy and award if someone could break 100 from the 27.

 

I remember that too. I believe it was in the era of Remington 870's and paper wad loaded shells. Anyway, Reg Jackimowski broke one in the late 70's or 80's at the Grand with a Model 12.

 

Reggie - 1978 at the GAH

 

It's obvious that few of us on here even shot a trap target in the 70's and able to remember that-Roger excluded. Thanks!

 

I'd like to know where all these easy targets are being thrown, ain't none of them easy to these old eye's! If they are so easy why aren't there more shooter's with 98+ averages?

 

Compare the percentage of shooters with 98%+ averages now, to how many there were 25 years ago- that percentage is higher now, I’ll guarantee it.

 

I made a proposal decades ago to create a master pro class for skeet and trap, where in order to be inducted, you had to win a certain number of major events. once you won so many times, you stepped up, left ata or nssa and opened up the glass ceiling in ata or nssa for others to enjoy, eliminating the traffic jam at top. sorta like the green jacket at the masters. or like going from minor league to major league.
they would only compete amongst themselves.
this master pro class would enjoy top billing. a tv/cable channel would be created around them, interviews, make cameo appearances at small ranges to attract new shooters to the local little ranges, (like baseball does to neighborhood fields,) all the major pro class events would be televised, sponsors could sink their teeth in them, offer free guns, ammo, travel......much like football, instead of baseball cards there would be trap shooter or skeet shooter bubblegum cards, all paid of course by the companies and advertising. if the gun industry wants to suck us dry, let them pick up the tab and sell or give their stuff to the pros.
leaving the little lower class of at and nssa to their own devices.


and why not? tv sinks their teeth into stupid game shows and nobodies dangling from ropes and swing sets over water racing buzzers for a million dollars.

why not throw a million bucks at a chance to be best in the world of shooting?
why? nobody wanted to run with it.
thus....shooting is slowly dieing due to stagnant growth.

my business plan is buried in a desk somewhere. I just ran out of life to pursue it.

 

It will never happen. The ATA would loose total control over the sport. the cash cow would then starve on them. Roger C.

 

Dennis DeVault had a similar plan. He worked at it but there wasn't much interest. People used to watch StarShot

 

"If you do not like this type forum then please leave the site." ...... GREAT ADVICE ...... THANKS

I must have missed all the prior warnings to get a "last warning" .....

send me a PM so I don't offend you in public

 

To the "moderator" who gave me this great advice "If you do not like this type forum then please leave the site." .....

First I will say grow some balls and own it ......

Then I will say kiss my ass .....

And ..... Sparta is and always will be a shit-hole .....

Soooooo take your "last warning" and own it with a user name ..... or just be a chicken-shit like the many other mental midgets who think they can save the shit-hole .....

 

robb, that was marketed as a game show with celebs.
this would be more like pga sports.

 

"guess what? your first warning IS YOUR LAST" ...... maybe ......

Are you the one who wants to own the moderator actions on this thread ??????

I hope Joe sees "this" ...... and whoever the no ball chicken-shit "moderator" is owns their actions ......

 

No need to "be careful" at this point ......

Care to answer if you are the owner of the "moderator" actions ??????

I see you skipped the question

 

FWIW ...... getting "banned" is not something this 'site' does for calling sparta a shit-hole ......

 

If you can't call sparta a shit-hole on American Trapshooter without some no balled Jack-Ass threatening to ban you for "profanity" ..... and they edit posts to where they make no sense .....

HOW in the living Hell are you going to "create another organization" that can last past the first day ?????????????????????

Have the woke Jack-Asses taken over the site where free speech is supposed to be a good thing ??????????????????????????

Back to my favorite quote on here ...... "Sometimes the Bastards Win" ....... What a damn shame they have to 'win' here on this site .......

The no balled Jack-Ass needs to come out in the open and own their actions ....... Or was a non-answer the answer ??????????

 

joe has spoken.
life goes on.
profanity is now allowed on this site.
have a nice day.

 

I am amazed at the individuals on this sight with the in depth knowledge of the ATA. Many of you have enjoyed and achieved great heights with what the organization has provided over the years. And it is impressive.
I am not one of those versed in the history of the ATA. But to the original question. I think it is better for the good of the whole to try and improve what we have.

 

This thread has a shit load of interesting posts.

 

This thread is a good example of the answer to the never ending question ..... 'Why can't organized Trapshooting be great again ???'

Simple answer ... When the wrong people are given the right power they can do a great deal of damage .....

Being told your first "warning" is also your "last", and "like it or leave", gets those exact results ..... Most will opt for the stick-it and leave .....

Organized Trapshooting will NEVER recover ... if ... years of wisdom from actually being there, can be 'ran-off' by ideologues ..........

 

Let's see if this 'story' gets any traction .....

Once upon a time ..... There was a well known, well liked, member here who was a TD at a well known, well liked facility .....

In my always less than humble opinion ..... It was a classic case of wisdom vs ideologues that didn't go well .....

So ..... With a little luck ..... maybe this 'story' can be told first hand, or with a lot of 'inside information' .....

This would be a small sample of the massive hill "another organization" would have to climb .....

 

"Why can't organized Trapshooting be great again???"

OBJECTION! Calls for opinion......SUSTAINED!!

 

Just for the record. It wasn't me.

 

Want a club to lose shooters and money it's easy-just give them a reason not to come. One of the few places to gamble and lose money was in Las Vegas. Now, many states offer the honor. If you weren't a AA or AAA shooter then there's no change in organizations that will make you one now.

The last time someone attempted a coup he was promptly removed from his position. He couldn't even hide behind the curtain.

Anyway, just saying we should start another organization is nothing but a pipe dream. The world is filled with just sayers with few just doers. Besides, in the grand scheme of things does it really matter anymore?

 

You guys aren’t paying attention to the forum. The SCTP is a new org. So are the the new high school organizations. There are two college organizations now. The Sporting Clays shooters have several new organizations.

Those aren’t pipe dreams. The over-handicapped old farters association has a gathering in Sparta every year. That shoot is smaller every year. And no one cares.

 

The main problem with the ATA is that the current membership knows little about the history of trap shooting or the rules OF trap shooting. From this group comes the leaders of the ATA.

Union strong is right, trap shooting today is sctp, non registered, high school and collage teams. These are the NEW organizations. For the most part the readers on here are just to damn old to be members of the new organizations.

User 1 I think calling Sparta a shit hole gives the real thing a bad name.

 

I see plenty of old gray-haired men still in leadership positions and on the executive committee-some of whom have been shooting for decades. Younger people have little interest in managing organizations today. The ATA has the same issues as Veteran, Fire Company, Gun Club and many other organizations-no one to carry the torch.

 

I've tried to get the SCTP to ask gun and ammo companies what they want and are looking for in a rep in 2023 and rhen to set up a collage program of classes that would get those young kids who are interested in the trap business something to help them get into the bussiness. Having a salesman that knows about guns is a great step one in my opinion, I got into Beretta by being an all american shooter and getting noticed that way, gun companies don't get their help like that anymore.

If you want these kids to stay in the trap bussiness give them a reason other than AA points and that a boys. Show them a future worth staying in trap shooting. To many of today's outdoor hunting and shooting companies hire reps that don't know the sport or the product. Look at Bud Lite for the big picture in what is out there today. If you don't know about trap shooting you don't make a very good salesman.

 

Especially since the corporate sponsorship has mostly drifted to Sporting Clays. Trapshooting is mostly hard work while Sporting is mostly for fun.

 

What gets me, is how hard the mental midgets try to suppress Trapshooting history .....

Trapshooting was a money sport, period ..... And enough of a challenge to keep the paycheck worthwhile .....

Take two 'new' shooters that break their first top score ..... Give one 'points', and give the other one 500 bucks ..... See which one is most likely to stick around in hopes of breaking more top scores .....

The first year I went to the Missouri Fall Handicap ... 25's were paying in the hundreds, and 50's were paying over a thousand, and a 'win' was enough to cover the trip, eat well while there, and have some change left over ..... No doubt it took your 'A-game', luck, and every thing else, but that made it fun .....

 

User 1, The Missouri Fall Handicap, the Golden West Grand, Bob Taylor's LV club shoots, The Mint shoots, The Vandalia Grand American, The Old Thurmont Maryland State Shoot, Sunday Jagua Shoots, Sunday Great Eastern Shoots, The Mid American and Fall Shoot at Middletown were all great money shoots. Old timers will remember Graff's Mexico Missouri Spring and Fall Shoots the gave merchandise prizes like gold coins and guns. These were all great money shoots with very large attendance. These shoots had many more shooters than ATA shoots today, MONEY was the reason.

A lot of these clubs gave gold coins, guns, cars, cash, shells and other items of value for trophies, no ATA points. These were Fun times that those new to trap shooting can never know. History is dead, long live the ATA.

 

Jesus Lord. Do any of you guys actually shoot trap? Or get laid? Or do ANYTHING but piss and moan like scorned old women?

Things change. Always have. Get a friggin life and enjoy SOMETHING before the reaper comes for you.

 

Roy D, Stick it in your ear. You apparently do not know what trap shooting was all about. YOUR LOSS. Roger C.

 

If it upsets you to read these posts I suggest you DON’T.

Flyersarebest
Moderator

 

Dear Roy D, for you I'll list a little bit about my trap shooting history and my current LIFE so you'll know where I'm coming from. I was an ata HOF inductee in 2000, an ohio Hof inductee in1997, All American 18 times, Osta board 7 years, Ohio President 2011, Ohio State and Cardinal Center Tornament director 10 years, Beretta USA from 1982 to 2000, I have won every state championship in Ohio and in Maryland. That's Singles, doubles, handicap, all around, and High Over all with most them multipal times, I won over 2000 trophies shooting trap, many guns, lots of gold coins, and a shit pot full of money. Also a couple of Grand singles Championships, HOA, Budweiser Champion as well as a then record 14 200 straights in 1985 that included a long run of over 1400. At 2 different grands I ran all the singles, got my Grand Slam in 1977 which was the 17th one. In 1975 I won the Ohio State handicap from 27 in an event that had 1600 entrees, At the time the largest event ever won from 27 yards. I have a few other trap shooting records but I won't bore you with them but I will tell you that I have shot of 400,000 registered trap targets and way more than that non registered trap, some sporting clays, and some skeet that (we won't talk about today) and a little international PIT.

Today I shoot a lot of rifle but I've given up shooting for anything other than fun today. I haven't shot a clay bird in two years and I don't miss it. I still hunt and I when I use a shotgun it's 410's and 28's. I'm working on a u tube channel with my daughter and you can catch me there on Thorn Bottom Hunting in the future. I'd say I HAVE that LIFE you hoped for me, at least I feel busy.

With that money I won shooting trap I told you about I bought a couple of Ohio farms and started Thorn Bottom Hunting in 1996. I built a sporting clay range in 1996 that was one of the first in Ohio which I closed in 2004, and my wife and I have run a bird hunting operation ever since. This year will be our 28th. I should mention I also did a lot of live bird shooting and wrote some articals for hunting magazines too. Dabled in politics, started organized Sika deer hunting in Maryland, attended the 1996 republican convention as a guest, I gave trap shooting tips and lessons for the republican delegates and congreesman and senators as well as being on TV a few times talking trap shooting and spoke to the congresionall sportsman cacaus a few times in DC.

You see Roy I have had, and still do have, a good life because of Trap Shooting, when the reaper comes for me I will have no regrets. Trap Shooting was very good too, and for, me.

I have no idea who you are or what you've done with your trap shooting. I do know a lot of these old guys you want to dis and what the have done and where they come from. If you want me to put any stock in your opinon tell me about yourself and your trap shooting history, tell us about your life maybe then I could have some respect for you and your opinon. We are all ears. Shower me with facts and not feelings. The best thing about being a 69 year old trap shooter is I can remember being a 19 year old trap shooter. Until you have had that experience you might not know anything about what you think you are talking about.

 

"when the reaper comes for me I will have no regrets" .....

Unfortunately I will have a couple of Trapshooting "regrets" .....

First being, I didn't do enough to stop the destruction of organized Trapshooting, when I got to see much of it first hand .....

Many moons ago, in cyber-land far-far away, much of what I had to say was met with fierce opposition ..... It didn't matter to the blind following that much of what I said became widely accepted later .....

It didn't matter greatly because much of the damage was already done .....

It still gets me that many still believe the greatest lie ever told ..... that being the 'ATA' had to sell the home grounds, that they owned, move to BFE, and the money from it was better used as a Hedge Fund to enrich a small number of people .....

Some past ATA Presidents, some Vendors, and some ATA poster shooters, chose quick self enrichment over the best interests of a long standing great Sport .....

I can say this with first hand knowledge, not a 'Bubba said' .....

And ..... I haven't put a honest effort into something better for the next generation ..... And that may be a "regret" if the "reaper" visits me in the near future .....

 

With all due respect Mr. Dysinger, the history of trap shooting and the rules of trap shooting are far from the main problems associated with the ATA.

There are a plethora of problems that exceed both that you mention.

 

I've always questioned how much it mattered that any improvements be made to this organization when the president only serves a one year term. How much could anyone do in one year, and it is my estimation that is by design and not for any chance of change. Just take your gun, and move along!

 

Humans make mistakes. Maybe it time to bury the hatchet.

 

Dobyns, And watch a great sport die due to the inability of its incompetent leaders. Is that your answer? Roger C.

 

"Trapshooting was a money sport"-agreed-so was live bird. Live bird shooting is on life support and plenty of the few who still participate shoot practice birds only. Parallels here?

 

Roger, do you have a better answer? Your definition of the idiom 'burying the hatchet' must be different than mine.

 

Dobyns, what is your definition, of bury the hatchet? Roger C.

 

To agree to end the disagreement that has divided two people or groups.
To end a quarrel or disagreement and make peace.

 

MOE, The president sits on the board and EC for 4 years before moving up to president. If he is playing with a full deck, He certainly knows what is going on with the organization. Or he is playing by the rules that his tutors have taught him. It has been turned in a good old boys club. Roger C.

 

No argument there!

 

"Live bird shooting is on life support and plenty of the few who still participate shoot practice birds only. Parallels here?"

Not in my opinion .....

I will ask ......

Does/did "live bird shooting" have a Governing Organization that f**ked it's membership for leadership self enrichment ?????

Does/did "live bird shooting" have a group of 'never_was/never_will_be' shooters expecting special treatment, like the occupy the 27 Trapshooters ?????

Do "live bird shooters" typically have the same financial constraints as a typical Trapshooter ?????

Both may be "on life support" ..... but ..... the reasons may be much different ......

 

Well, some members of the governing body certainly did enrich themselves at the shooters expense-not that many of the members ever cared.

Occupy the 27 yd. shooters have no effect on much of anything except their egos when threatened with reductions or increases. We all know a few of them and some of the biggest complainers only ever dreamed of making it to the 27.

The "typical trapshooter" is hard to define. What's typical for some isn't typical for others. Let's just say when the price of birds went from $2 to $12 or more the typical bird shooter quit shooting or drifted to Sporting Clays.

 

"Occupy the 27 yd. shooters have no effect on much of anything" .....

Just one "effect" is ..... it shows how stupid a "known ability" rule is when it is only enforced one direction ..... shouldn't "known ability" apply to the lack of ability also ???

I don't believe price increases cause "drift" as much as possible return on investment does .....

 

The best thing about shooting pigeons was that every club had one set of rules FOR THAT CLUB and one boss, the club owner. I shot different yards at different clubs that all had different rules.

User 1 you are so right about the occupy the 27 crowd and the shit those shooters caused the ATA over the years. I call them the k 80 kids. They bought a 15K gun that they still couldn't break an 80 with so those are the shooters that demanded eaiser targets to get to that 90 and when the birds were made eaiser the REAL 27 yard shooters started breaking 99's and 100's instead of 92's and 93's. Those easier targets raised everyones averages about the same, it just depended on where you started.

I'm long past giving a shit about it but time has told the story of who was right and who was wrong.

 

Well said Brad, I also have quit shooting registered targets. It is to bad the young shooters today will never know what made trap shooting so great.
I started registering in 1974 and ended in 2023. I think I shot in the best of the years of the sport. Roger C.

 

So, the solution is simple. Ban any gun that cost over $2,000 from ATA shooting, throw away those voice callers-back to hand pulling, automatic traps suck too so dust off those Western traps and put 'em in whatever hole will bring back the money while throwing away the rulebook, remove all those occupy 27 shooters and put 'em back on the 21 where they started but hold your ears when they break a great score and take money away from the occupy 27 yd. shooters carrying 95+ averages. While we're at it petition the ammunition companies to produce paper wadded shotshells and make 'em mandatory for ATA trapshooting-great for the environment too and we get to smell those Federal papers one more time before we all croak. We've now made ATA trapshooting great again.

 

That is where the cost of 'practice' conversation runs off the rails .....

A competitive shooter shoots 'practice' at a Club, not to improve their skill, but to acclimate themselves to the 'conditions of the Club' ..... regardless of the 'cost' .....

Can you imagine going Golfing with someone that on the first Tee they never hit the ball, but just 'practice' swing until they fall over ......

 

ATA targets today are registered practice, Ollie I've said it before I'm sure but if I haven't I'll say it now. You don't know what you are talking about. I shot ATA trap in 38 states and Quebec and Ontario plus PITA in British Columbia, Live birds in Pa, Md, Ill, TX, Ky, Fla, NV, IN, NC, OH, AZ and most likely some other states, I shot Multipal clubs in most of those states so I have some experience. I've shot over 200,000 ATA 27 yard targets, of all my Registered ATA Handicap targets only 3000 were shot from shorter yardage. Why you would think that I don't know what I'm talking about stunes me. I don't make rash un thought out statements. You should think about what you say before you say it.

 

You’re a moron.

 

So, in other words no one wants to go back to the era of supposedly what made trapshooting great and no new organization could produce the desired effect. I've only been shooting since 1963 so I couldn't possibly remember when $200 Model 12's ruled and hand pulled black and white targets were the norm. I remember when the Perazzi TM-1's hit the states for a whopping price of around $700 and we all stood in awe of anyone who could afford such extravagance and yes, a few of 'em shot their Model 12's better. BTW, few if any top shooters now shoot cheap guns and if some old geezer is finally able to purchase a $20,000 Krieghoff and shoot lousy scores it's none of our business. A bigger problem in trapshooting is top shooters mastering the 27 yd line-not some 75 yo shooting with his buddies attempting to re-live his glory days while not playing a dime in options. The top shooters mastering the 27 yd. line ran out of fish willing to support their habit-fix that one!
So, trapshooting has evolved into what it is today and the worst part is fanaticizing some magic fix by a new organization that's been talked about for decades but never went anywhere is the answer.

 

Maybe there's a solution. Let's name the new outfit the "Disgruntled Old Former Trapshooters Organization-DOFTO". First, it's important to get a few states other than Ohio to help with its inauguration. Paperwork shouldn't be difficult since so few scores will ever be registered. I can name a few officers, President, VP, Directors, and maybe an honest Treasurer that won't run off with the dues money-if they are willing to accept the responsibility. Alright everyone, the golden opportunity to fix what ails ATA trapshooting is in our grasp. Now, who wants to be President?

 

10 point, You are correct in your description of OLEO. He never mastered the sport, but in his mind he is an expert.
Talking to him is like talking to W.P.T.'s toaster. Roger C.

 

My vote for President! We'd have to do an extensive background check before I'd recommend him for Treasurer.

 

"none of our business" ..... You are so wrong .....

It became "our business", when the 'ATA' f**ked up a great money sport by bending over backwards to kiss the ass of these people with new special rules .....

It is pointless to list all the special treatment rules to kiss their ass, as they have been beat to death .....

Tell everyone 'your opinion' of what people in "1963" would think of the 2 Mulligan per 25 rule ..... And ..... the many other dumb-ass things the ATA came up with for these 'do no harm people' .....

 

User, you need to give poor ole ollie a little slack for he is truly a legend in his own mind and he knows it all. LOL

Dave Berlet

 

In case you don't remember the vote was nearly unanimous by the delegates to vote to "ruin" the organization.

 

The "two mulligan rule" was just a bit of common sense. Dragging some bubble gum chewing 15 yo female off the bench to test someone's firearm for not discharging would only benefit some lawyer after an accident happened. That rule was probably made when older experienced shooters also pulled and thankfully rescinded. Now really, how many times have you seen it intentionally violated?

 

Alright David, what title will you accept in the new organization since President is already taken? Weren't you one of those that ran around talking up that new organization along with Brad that went absolutely nowhere? That was what-around 30 years ago? Any progress since?

The 'dawg might not know everything but he forgets nothing.

 

Oleo Dawg, THE TOASTER POSTER. L.O.L. ROGER C.

 

Isn't it a shame the low's that the sport that we love have fallen to? I just noticed in Shotgun Sports that the total entry's for Monday's Singles Class Championship was only1,305.That's a crying shame! I don't know what the answer is, but making the Grand even more expensive to shoot by holding it away from the " hub" ( states like Ohio and Pennsylvania) of trapshooting when prices of fuel, target's and shells are already taking their toll wasn't and isn't the answer. Will the last trapshooter leaving the sport please turn out the light's??!!

 

On the internet no one knows you know nothing and can't back up anything you profess to know.

 

Silly silly me ...... How could I ever "back up" the fact that a group of self-serving, self-enriching, mental midgets destroyed organized Trapshooting ......

Everyone knows the top shooters are worried about the cost of practice targets ..... since they would much rather spend their time on the practice traps than winning money .....

Who knew the 'never was/never will be' keyboard heroes were so in touch with the ails of organized Trapshooting ..... It has to be the cost of practice targets ...... because how could free shells matter to the top shooters ......

I feel so bad I insulted toasters ...... heck I have thrown away smarter toasters than some of the clueless mental midgets ......

So ...... To the toasters of the world I apologize ......

Who knew the 'never was/never will be' 'moderators' could attain enough 'power' to delete an opinion of a shit-hole ...... When I have been there and my best guess they have not .....

After this post I am off to my kitchen to ask forgiveness from my toaster .......................................................................................

 

I was making reference to OLEO, being as dense as the toaster. Maybe the toaster is a little wiser than he is. Roger C.

 

I know ...... my toaster meme was also directed at him ...... by his reply I think I hurt his feelings ...... but ..... after reading his reply I have little doubt "Maybe the toaster is a little wiser than he is" ......

 

user, Is that toaster a 2 holer or a 4 holer just wondering???

Dave Berlet

 

Back to the title of this thread.

Is it time to create another organization?

It may be time, but it is not going to happen. Trap is losing shooters, it is beyond tip point, the glory days are gone forever and this sport is not going to rebound. Blame the ATA, blame individuals, blame the economy, blame anything and everything, it does't matter, the end result is the same regardless of who you blame.

Trap is toast!

 

I'm banned from mentioning 2-3-4 or 5 hole anymore but how's that new organization that was proposed 30 years ago coming along? I'll propose a name-DOOTA-"Disgruntled Old Ohio Trapshooters Association". At least now it has a name.

 

So, moving the Grand to Sparta destroyed Trapshooting? Anything else? Our little Winter Trapshooting league went from 830 shooters in 1977 to 355 shooters today. Most of those former shooters are dead and never will be replaced. Trapshooting may be on life support but why not enjoy what's left and quit complaining about something like some new organization that can somehow revive it. ATA Trapshooting lost it's luster when all those casinos opened for business and the gamblers left. Sporting Clays gets all the sponsorship money and new shooters went there. Heck, I'm still waiting for at least one officer to stop complaining, step up and create this new trap organization. Still no volunteers only complainers-

 

Oleo, You sound elated by the sport of trap shootings decline, Is it because you could never excelled in the sport? Roger C.

 

User 1, even if no one else understands or appreciates you know that I do.

 

Elated never-realistic always. Besides, I always shot the more difficult targets on the East coast not Mid-west fluffballs and then complain the targets are too easy and we need a new organization.

 

Are you required to live in Ohio in order to join DOOTA?

Are there out of state chapters?

Asking for a friend.

 

The organization is still in the planning stages. I'm sure as soon as they elect a full slate of officers multiple states will be eager to join and it's likely demand will far exceed supply. Heh, it's only been at least 30 years since the powers at the top of OH raised some stink and decided something needed to be done. Patience grasshopper.

 

BTW Roger, please don't quit now. A few more years of trying and you might soon carry higher singles averages than mine. Then again, probably not.

 

I think it's sad that we are even having these discussion's.

 

Yes, it is. Those of us who started shooting back in the 60's when we were kids and carried our rifles to school for rifle club remember how different life was never to return-Trapshooting included. Maybe when we were able to make a difference some of us were too busy shooting and taking advantage of the rules and now reap the results. BTW, Krieghoff has a difficult keeping up with demand for those $15,000 K-80 Sporting Clays guns.

 

Tell the truth about the targets you shop Oleo. you were setting fluff targets in the 80's by your own admission. you were a cheater then and will always be known as one. you will always be known as a wanta be. Why don't you post your fantastic handicap and doubles averages? Roger C.
P.S. Your average was set on those fluff targets that you set for your self.

 

So, my dear friend Roger shot 67,125 fluffballs between 1996 and today and never broke a respectable Singles average. I failed to see in the ATA minutes where he ever registered a complaint to the ATA stating the targets were too easy. What new organization can we design to help Roger shoot a better Singles average?

 

Oleo, Real men do not brag about their 16 td. average. Real men shoot all 3 options. List your wins in handicap and doubles if you had any.
This is the last time I will reply to any of your B.S. There is nothing anyone can do to have me again shoot registered targets. The real men have all left the field.
Roger C.

 

Take me back to the days of BB guns and .10 tubes of BB's and I'd be a Happy Camper!!!

 

Looks like the NSCA has 1822 entries in their 200 bird main event this weekend. $20,000 for 1st, $10,000 for 2nd, $6,000 for third, $6,000 for Lady 1st, $4,000 Lady 2nd, $2,000 Lady 3rd. I’ll go out on a limb and say the shooter who wins the $20K won’t have to break 200 in the program followed by another 600 straight in a shoot off. What do you suppose is attracting all those shooters to sporting clays?

 

Maybe you should ask yourself where all that prize money is coming from? Raise the price of a bag of wads .25 and trapshooters threaten to quit. We've found in the business that Sporting Clays shooters seldom question the price of guns or ammo-mostly a different clientele in attendance.

 

The same group of “Trapshooters” that complain about the extra 25 cents for wads will spend $600 on a Yedi cooler so they don’t have to throw out a 1/2 gallon of milk when they drive to Florida for the winter. Some things are just beyond explanation. The current Grand has roughly 1/2 the entries it used to. Looking at the SC Nationals entries, my guess is the half that left ATA are over there.

 

And 95% of the participants go home empty handed. Kinda like trap unless you count flashlight trophies and other trinkets. Maybe we should ask Rick Marshall for his opinion?