Catastrophic failure at Tucson

Anyone have any info on the catastrophic gun failure at Tucson?

Bruce Bowen
Sturgis South Dakota

 

I heard nothing white there during for the Spring Grand.

 

What did you hear? ROGER C.

 

Very likely what you are referring to happened on the sporting clays course. A 20 gauge shell in the chamber and a 12 gauge on top. BANG!

 

Thanks for the clarification about the sporting clays course.

How did they determine that it was a 20 ga shell in front? Just curious.

Bruce Bowen
Sturgis South Dakota

 

That is what I heard from my sources.

 

the classic... 20 in a 12. they made all 20ga hulls yellow to help keep that from happening and it still happens.


a portion of my range rules.........

• Eye and ear protection required when shooting or in the shooting area.

• Guns & ammo are subject to inspection. Shoulder stocks are required.

• Guns entering the clubhouse must be opened and confirmed empty before racking.

• Shouldering, dry firing, and loading of firearms in the clubhouse is prohibited.

• A game is 25 targets. Shoot only 1 shot at 1 target.

• Extra targets not allowed, unless one is thrown broken.

• Carry only one gauge of ammo when shooting.

• Load only when you are on a firing station. Otherwise, keep your firearm unloaded with the action open.

• Load no more than 2 rounds at a time.

• Load only 1 round on station 8 high house and 1 round for ATA trap.

• Don’t swing past the center stake on station 8

 

I just talked to someone that is close to the owner of shotgun. He had a long conversation with the owner. According to this person, the owner is certain that there was no 20 ga cartridge involved.

I find this very believable. If you consider all the circumstances that would have to fall in line for a shooter to load a 20 ga and then a 12 ga cartridge behind it..very unlikely to occur. Not impossible, just very unlikely.

In addition, I believe if that had been the case, it would be easy to determine from the condition of the barrel in the area of the forcing cone.

I believe this is just another case of an unfortunate catastrophic failure with an unknown cause (at least at this time) followed by all the usual theories. ( reloads, 20 ga cartridge, double charges, detonation, case separation, etc, etc) and the really unfortunate part is that the real cause will probably never be known. It is very bad for the sport, not to mention the injuries suffered and the loss of an expensive shotgun. And, it will happen again!

Keep in mind that I have not seen or examined the gun. I have not talked first hand to the owner. I don't claim to know what caused this to happen. I do have some experience with these types of failures and have tried to replicate them in a controlled environment. I have some theories just like everyone else.


Bruce Bowen
Sturgis South Dakota

 

Bruce if you have heard what make of gun and was it and was it an O/U or auto?

 

ok, then its all hear-say for now.
was anyone hurt?

 

Brad
I was told it was a Rizinni.

 

Another picture.

 

And another.

 

holy cow...

 

If it were me I would search out a lab, the Saint Louis Testing Company for instance, and see if they will check out the metal to see if it can be determined if it failed. They do metal failure analysis.
There are a number of companies found on the net that do this type of work.

Years ago one of my shooting buddies had an MX8 come apart. Not as bad as this one but the rib peeled back, the barrels separated, and the stock shattered enough to hurt his wrist. He made the mistake of not sending it to a certified company to be analyzed. We all told him what to do but he never bothered.

Perazzi said “not our fault” and Federal ( he was shooting new ammo) said “nope not us” so he ate it. Almost literally.

It can’t hurt to get in touch with a company that does this type of investigation.

 

Looks to me like the upper barrel is still attached to what is left of the mono block and that it was the lower section of the block that failed.

 

Thanks Bruce, hard to believe what that gun looks like. I've never seen any gun blow up that bad before. Have you?

 

Brad,

I have information on about 40 catastrophic shotgun failures. I have never seen one that came apart in that many pieces!

Bruce Bowen
Sturgis South Dakota

 

Circa spring as in march of ‘95 I was witness to a jap built weatherby grade 5 Athena o/u(SKB) grenading during a doubles event! Something caught me across upper right arm requiring 7 stitches. Durned near killed the dude firing it. Inconclusive results, but prior pair he scored dead a pair so kinda doubtful was a stuck wad etc etc. No one at club ever found any piece of metal that was 100% identified as belonging to the mono block & the ejected barrels were found muzzle buried in ground near post 5 where he was firing from. Whatever tore me up barely missed gentleman on post 4 as I was on #3 at time

 

That’s incredible, hopefully he was not hurt.

 

Wow hopefully the shooter wasn't hurt. That looks BAD!!!

 

Almost more damage than you would expect could be caused by a shotgun shell.

 

That's the same exact thought I had when I saw the picture! It's like the shell was totally full of gunpowder with no shot or wad. Even then, it seems unlikely that you could produce a grenade job like that.

-Roy

 

Something is certainly amiss here, we can all speculate but I doubt if anyone has seen something that catastrophic before. My theory is loaded with C4. That had to be a trip to the ER. Reinforces the need for glasses, I get lazy when hunting and glasses on occasion.

 

I see the “D” word hasn’t been breached yet

 

If there was a cocked wad, it could have made the shell the equivalent of a shaped charge

 

Every club should have those pictures on club house wall as a reminder.

 

Causes are rarely actually determined, but if so rarely divulged it seems. This is a BT-99 a few years ago. Determined to be sabotaged by another shooter who dropped a shell into the gun owners shooting vest that was WAY overcharged with a pistol powder.

 

Here is another example. Unknown cause.

 

You have to keep in mind that burning rates on shotgun powder and pistol powder are very close. Compare Bullseye and Red Dot for example. The reason the real cause is seldom determined is because it is more convenient for everyone involved (except the shooter) to blame it on reloads. A double charge of powder is hard to get into a shot shell that has all the other components and even then the pressures are similar to a proof load. I AM NOT RECOMMENDING THAT YOU TRY IT!

 

I would love to hear your theories as to what would cause this type of catastrophic failure. I'm not asking or suggesting you comment on this situation in particular however.

Could it be metallurgy related? Heat treatment? That level of failure seems like it would be caused by very brittle steel and/or extremely high pressure, or both.

 

Perhaps these are true examples of "gun violence."

All mass shootings are done by violent PEOPLE !!

 

I always make it a habit to check the barrel every time I shoot. If there is smoke rolling around in the barrel, I'll blow it out to clear the barrel so I can see if it's clear, also. It doesn't take that much extra time after each shot. You have to look down anyway to put the next shell in the gun...................... I remember years ago, several of us were shooting singles and when one of the guys shot, I heard a thump. I thought for a couple of seconds and just as he mounted his gun, I start hollering, Whoa!! Whoa!! He checked his barrel and sure enough, there was a wad stuck in the barrel. Phew!!

 

How about a base wad migrating from the hull, when Winchester changed hulls they had that problem