ATA Assets Question…….How is this possible?

I am not a Certified Public Accountant.

That said please read what was written in the minutes:


The Net Assets of the ATA increased from $731,622 in 2020 to $3,792,270 in 2021.

Controller Howell told the Board of Directors at the conclusion of the 2021 fiscal year the current fair market value of ATA investments was $21,426,633 compared to $17,923,242 at that time last year.

Can both of those statements be accurate?
Please explain.

I report. You decide.
merlo out.

 

Looks like the piggy bank got raided. Ask the EC where the money went. Roger C.

 

Roger, if you raid a bank you take money, not put it in.
Merlo, I was at the BOD meeting that year(as every ata member can and should attend), I want to think there was a trust, fund or something else that came in. It was explained, I’ll have to look at my notes.

 

I think that was the net asset gain or loss for the year, not the total net asset value.

 

The minutes were voted on. You might think someone could catch that.

 

FTX math.

 

The minutes are not accurate. The ATA should clear this up. The BOD accepted the minutes. Smh

 

The first quote says they started out with net assets of $731,622 and finished with $3,792, 270. They went from near nothing to having $3.4 million more.

Then they restate the same thing but backwards. They started with $17,923,242 and ended with $21,426,623. A $3.5 million gain. This appears to be for the same year since the minutes are from ‘22. The sums are from ‘20 and 21.

Either you stared with $731,622. Or you started with $17,923,242.

Either you finished with 3,793,242 Or you finished with $21,426,623. Confusing here too. I don’t see a loss. I see conflicting numbers also.

 

Try this from ...... investinganswers dot com ......

"Net assets are what a company owns outright, minus what it owes. Put another way, net assets equal the company assets (economic resources) minus liabilities (what is owed to someone else)."

Look at the "company owns outright" part ......

Now look at the "current fair market value of ATA investments" ...... as with what happened with "FTX", that could go to zero (0) at any time .....

So ...... "Net assets are what a company owns outright", and "current fair market value of ATA investments", is the current Hedge Fund Game the "ATA" has decided to play with the money from the sale of the Vandalia property ..... ......

 

So the ATA only had 700,000 net assets to start 2021? Despite being worth $21 million? Hmmmm.

 

"being worth $21 million" is based on "current fair market value" ..... "worth" is subjective most of the time ..... "Subjective means making assumptions, making interpretations based on personal opinions without any verifiable facts." .....

"current fair market value" is based on ??? point in time ..... again, look at "FTX", some people went to sleep thinking they had millions, and woke up the next day broke ..... and most likely a 'cash_out' of "investments" would yield much less .....

Only big_brother can print money out of thin air ..... So ..... when some have millions more, some have millions less .....

Most of the time it is Grandma's retirement fund, that she spent years working her ass off for, that takes the 'hits' ......

So ..... A so-called "charity", using money they shouldn't be able to, can feel proud knowing Grandma has less so they can brag about having more .....

 

Please splain how ATA hurt granny.

 

For some 'investments' to make millions, other 'investments' lose millions ......

Most of time retirement/pension funds take the loss .....

Watch the 'news' when the 'market' takes a shit, the first thing they will say is how people's retirement/pension/401k took a hit ...... so poor old granny has to work until she falls over so a 'charity' can brag about their 'millions' ......

Hope that helps ...........................

 

The minutes are not wrong. The value of the ATA just grew.

Net assets is the amount of liquidable things minus cost that the ATA has (goods owned, cash, etc.). From ‘20 to ‘21, the ATA gained about $3M in that area.

FMV is what the current market conditions state any investments of a given entity/thing are worth at current time. There was about a $3.5M gain in that area from ‘20 to ‘21.

If anything, the OP doesn’t capture how the net assets grew or have any investment detail. I don’t know if these things are called out in the minutes or not. Either way, the ATA gained value from ‘20 to ‘21, plain and simple. The rest is just noise.

 

The OP copied and pasted the minutes. Are you saying something is missing. What did the ATA leave out? If we assume there was a gain then explain why the ATA only had $731,622 to start in ‘20.

 

I’m saying the OP didn’t include detail how the assets grew. I don’t know if that detail was in the minutes or not, just that it wasn’t included in the post.

 

Funny how any ATA conversation about 'money' always goes the same way .....

'The ATA now has several million dollars more ..... I have no idea why, but nothing to see here ..... move along and don't ask questions' .....

At the very least ..... watching a 'Charity' make 'investment' millions, while paying some people a lot of money to kill what it claims to promote, is cheap entertainment .....

It seems as if 'Bat' is posting from beyond ...............

 

It seems as if you missed my point so I’ll try to make it as clear as I can. Misunderstanding of what the numbers represent doesn’t mean the minutes are inaccurate. Ask all you want or keep speculating on here. I really don’t care. If anything, I’d be curious to know the answers if you get any real ones.

 

Does anyone actually believe that someone that has enough 'investing' talent to earn a little over 19.5 percent annually with 'investments' would work for the ATA ?????

Heck go out on your own with a track_record like that ..... Or, at the very least Elon Musk or Jeff Bezos would love to hire that kind of talent ......

If poor old granny could get in on that action, her golden years would have actual gold .....

 

Earth to Berry…..the OP quoted the minutes. That is what is there. Who is misunderstanding? Are you implying you understand what is written? I would like the answers but it seems the ATA doesn’t have to put information like that in the minutes.

I am betting an Attorney General can help again.

 

I missed the part where all of the minutes are in the OP. There could be an explanation for the gains that was not included in the post. There could not be. I claimed that just because there was a misunderstanding of what those numbers defined didn’t mean the minutes were wrong. Nothing more.

 

If you believe that your only intent was to educate the unwashed masses about, "misunderstanding of what those numbers defined" ..... why the need to post "The rest is just noise." ????????

Is there a reason you feel the "noise" needed to stop ?????

Do you look down on everyone, or just those who question the all_mighty ATA ?????

To quote you "I’ll try to make it as clear as I can", what is your personal interest in stopping the "noise" ?????

 

It seems this thread has caught the attention of some that hate the ATA Charity "investments" being aired on the wild wild web .....

Those on the bottom of the free shotgun list will be sent to try and force this thread away from the top of a google search .....

The thread "Why Mexico? Why Mexico now?" may find better answers here on this thread ....

"A. PURPOSE OF THE ATA"
"The purpose of the ATA is to promote and govern the sport of amateur
trapshooting throughout the world"

A Global Charity needs to try showing Global participation ..... or ..... annually making millions with "investments" just to buy shotguns for the rank and file could draw undesired attention .....

 

How could the the ATA only have $731,622 in net assets in 2020?

The BOD approved the minutes?

 

The treasures report from said minutes.
3. TREASURER’S REPORT
110 Treasurer Jeff Wagner with the assistance of Controller Michael Howell
111 gave the Treasurer’s Report. (Treasurer Robert E. Goodman passed away on July
112 27, 2022, after a long battle with cancer. On August 1, 2022, the Executive
113 Committee appointed and confirmed Jeff Wagner as Treasurer of the ATA and

114 ATAA). They talked about the Annual Audit performed by Dale Guebert, CPA
115 (ATA’s independent accountants) which was sent to them. The Audit Report
116 issued by Dale Guebert, CPA was an unqualified audit opinion, and in regard to
117 internal control matters no significant deficiencies were noted. The Net Assets of
118 the ATA increased from $731,622 in 2020 to $3,792,270 in 2021.
119 It was also pointed out that the AIM Program was profitable again in 2021.
120 The AIM Program made a profit of $84,342 in 2021 compared to a profit of
121 $56,126 in 2020.
122 It was also pointed out that membership revenue increased from $511,217
123 in 2020 to $556,047 in 2021 and fees from registered shoots increased from
124 $428,555 in 2020 to $579,568 in 2021.
125 Controller Howell told the Board of Directors at the conclusion of the 2021
126 fiscal year the current fair market value of ATA investments was $21,426,633
127 compared to $17,923,242 at that time last year.
128 The Grand American experienced another profitable year in 2021. The net
129 Profit from the Grand American was $534,261 in 2021 as compared to $64,673 in
130 2020.
131 Treasurer Wagner and Controller Howell responded to numerous questions
132 from the Board of Directors in a responsive and professional manner and they
133 were thanked for their efforts on behalf of the Amateur Trapshooting Association.
134 Subsequent to the Treasurer’s presentations by Treasurer Wagner and Controller
135 Michael Howell, President Darryl Hayes requested a Motion to approve the
136 Treasurer’ Report. Upon Motion of Michigan Director J. B. Lewis and with Second
137 of Virginia Director George Hafkemeyer and following the President’s Call of the
138 Question, with no further response, it was by voice vote, unanimously

 

Thanks for posting Rn3
So why did the ATA only have $731,622 in net assets in 2020? (line 118)

 

Easily explained right?

 

There is an accounting rule called "Mark to Market" where you adjust your asset prices to current market value. With the inflation in everything, I would expect this is what they did. So lets use their building as an example. If they paid 200,000 for it in 2005, and the market now says its worth 700,000, that would be an increase in 500,000. You can read about it in SFAS-157, if you want to learn more.

The CPA issued an "Unqualified" opinion, which is a clean audit in his opinion. As I doubt he wants to lose his license we should have some trust in this process.

 

And that market to market made the net assets of the ATA only worth $730,000? Lololol
Are you Biden’s Press Secretary?

 

So ....... your logic says the answer to "So why did the ATA only have $731,622 in net assets in 2020? (line 118)" ..... is "accounting rule called "Mark to Market" where you adjust your asset prices to current market value" ......

So ....... the next year there was a little over a 518% increase "Mark to Market" adjustment on the same "asset prices to current market value" to get to "$3,792,270 in 2021" ...........

 

Well that makes about as much sence as 19 yard handicaps.
Guss

 

Does this help ?????? from Google .....

"What does sence mean?"
"Is it spelled sence or sense?"
"Sense is also used in a range of expressions. In all cases, it should be spelled sense, not “sence.”Dec 1, 2022"

Would you care to contribute to the topic of the thread ?????

 

Let me type slow for you. The net assets increased from 730k, not down to 730k. I understand math is hard for you. Also, its NET ASSETS which you add up all your stuff, then subtract what you owe. So once again i will type real slow so Trap007 can follow along.

Your single wide is worth 7000. You still owe 6500 on it after 30 yrs of payments. Assuming you has no other cash/furniture etc, and he has no other debts his NET asset value 500.

W/O looking at the ATA financials, just the information above, we can see the following:

The change in the investments an ASSET was an increase of 3,503,391. The change is NET assets (remember this is the number of Total Assets less Total Liabilities) was 3,060,648. So without the gain in investments assets decreased by 442,743. Which is probably a combination of depreciation and disposition of PPE (Property/Plant/Equipment).

 

Lordmaker…you have completely missed the whole question. You have missed the point. Get a sixth grader to help you with this math.

The ATA had $17,000,000 in year A in investments.
Yet they said they only had $700,000 in net assets that year.

Investments are assets.

Do you need a calculator? Need extra fingers for the math?

 

4
87 Subsequent to further discussion and review and upon Motion of Vice
88 President Wehking with Second of Vice President Sissano and following the
89 President’s Call of the Question, with no further response or comment, it was
90 unanimously:
91 RESOLVED, that the appointment of Jeff Wagner as ATA and ATAA
92 Treasurer is hereby ratified, adopted and/or confirmed immediately and until his
93 successor is duly qualified.
94 President Hayes called for a recess at 19:55 HRS.
95 The Meeting resumed at 8:00 HRS on August 2, 2022.
96 President Hayes recognized Jeff Wagner, and the members of the Executive
97 Committee welcomed him as the New Treasurer of the ATA and ATAA. Treasurer
98 Wagner stated that he was ready to assume the responsibilities and duties of the
99 Treasurer.
100 President Hayes requested that Controller Michael Howell give the
101 Treasurer’s Report in conjunction with the Investment Committee Report due to
102 the untimely death of Treasurer Goodman. He stated that no unanticipated
103 expenses have been encountered and that all bills have been paid on time and
104 discounted when appropriate. The following report shows a breakdown of all
105 ATA investments:
106 ATA TREASURER REPORT
107 As of June 30, 2022
108 6070 8094 1655 3486 1508
109 Morgan Morgan Wells Fargo Wells Fargo Wells Fargo
110 Stanley Stanley Advisory Bonds Scholarship
111
112 Stocks $2,664,100 $3,349,655 $1,343,651 $ 220,247
113 Cert of Deposit $ 171,939
114 Corp Fixed $2,029,156 $ 116,123
115 Mutual Funds $ 115,940 $3,250,102 $ 521.271
116 Unit Investment Trusts $ 816,721
5
117 Alternative Investments $ 600,373
118 Cash $1,337,098 $ 614,962 $2,539,901 $ 387,015
119 ETF’S $ 283,483 $ 102,583 $1,679,213 $ 276,913
120 Account Balance $7,902,870 $4,299,263 $8,812,867 $0 $1,405,465
121 ATA Investments $22,420,465
122 Cash Accounts $ 534,549
123 Total $22,955,014
124 2022 August $ 23,746,739
125 2021 August $ 19,573,870
126 2019 August $ 18,733,906
127 2018 August $ 17,350,914
128 2017 August $ 16,160,810
129 2016 August $ 14,243,772
130 2015 August $ 12,327,290
131 2014 August $ 11,243,693
132 2013 August $ 10,143,276
133 2012 August $ 10,229,644
134 2011 August $ 8,177.713
135 November 2021, $2,500 was transferred from the Sparta Account to WF Scholarship Account .
136 October 2021, $800,000 was transferred from the Sparta Account to Wells Fargo Advisory Account.
137 August 2021, $45,000 was transferred from the Scholarship Account/WF to Sparta for Scholarship issue.
138 October 2020, $800.000 was transferred from the Sparta Account to Wells Fargo Advisory Account.
139 August 2020, $45,000 was transferred from the Scholarship Account/WF to Sparta for scholarship issue.
140 April 2020, $499,500 was transferred from the Wells Fargo Account to Sparta for Payroll/Expenses.
141 Controller Howell stated that the ATA’s Investment Policy needed to be
142 updated. It was pointed out that the ATA’s fixed investments will decline if
143 interest rates go up. The ATA’s current policy is to invest 60% in equities. No
144 action was taken by the Investment Committee or Executive Committee at this
145 time.
146 Subsequent to further review and discussion, and upon Motion of Vice
147 President Wehking and Second of Vice President Cook, and following the

 

Line '125' ... "2021 August"

Line '126' ... "2019 August"

Where is '2020' ?????

Line '123' ... "Total $22,955,014" ..... when was that ?????

 

For net assets the reference is #117 and 118.

 

How does that answer why there is not a '2020 August' on the list ??????

It jumps from 2021 to 2019 .....

Could line '140' provide some answers ??????

Hmmmmmmm ....... "April 2020, $499,500 was transferred from the Wells Fargo Account to Sparta for Payroll/Expenses."

 

If nothing else ..... a thread like this proves how far down the toilet the ATA is .....

"President Darryl Hayes requested a Motion to approve the Treasurer’ Report. with no further response, it was by voice vote, unanimously"

unanimously ..... let that sink in ..... not a single person ever questions any errors or omissions ..... or seems curious about any irregularities ..... it seems the ATA rank and file's only interest is, when is it my turn for the free shotgun and any other perks along the way .....

 

Rn3, The B.O.D., is as worthless as tits on a boar hog. They should be abolished as a non needed expense. Roger C.

 

Profit for the not-so-grand ....."$64,673 in 2020" ...... then ....... "$534,261 in 2021" .......

How does that happen ?????? Does the attendance and participation numbers reflect a little over a 826% increase in 2021 over 2020 ????????

 

Covid

 

If "Covid" is the answer ....... then why wasn't there a close to equal change in everything else ???????

 

Is 2020 the year the ATA held their shoot in Missouri?

 

The October 2020 Trap & Field has this .....

"Missouri"

"What a summer this has been! All of the shoot postponements and cancellations have made for a terribly busy July and August. As you know, we squeezed in about four months of shoots at MTA into eight extremely busy weeks, beginning with the AIM state shoot, Missouri State/Southwestern Zone, and ending with the Grand American. What an amazing eight weeks it was!"

"Yes, it was a little cramped, and the traffic was pretty heavy with all the carts and UTVs running up and down the line, but there have been crowds of that size there in the past."

So ... "it was a little cramped, and the traffic was pretty heavy with all the carts and UTVs running up and down the line" .... says that attendance and participation may not account for the dramatic loss of "Profit" ... but it may reflect that if the failed BFE place closes the doors, the ATA may fall short a half-million per year meeting "Payroll/Expenses" ...

"April 2020, $499,500 was transferred from the Wells Fargo Account to Sparta for Payroll/Expenses."

Maybe someone can show how attendance and participation dropped equal to loss of "Profit" ..... because, wouldn't there be "Payroll/Expenses" at any location ?????

 

Yes

 

The Daniel Boone Gun Club has a Farce-Book post on June 15, 2020 with a link about it ..... If you wanted to share that .....

Would you have the not-so-grand attendance/participation numbers for 2020 ?????

FWIW ..... I can't see why any Gun Club would give 'Meta' anything .....

 

From the ATA’s website:

2020 GRAND AMERICAN
Entries per Event
1 S 2 H 3 D 4 S 5 H 6 D 7 S 8 H 9 D 10 S 11 H 12 D 13 H 14 D 15 S 16 H 17 D 18 S 19 H 20 D 21 S 22 D 23 H 24 H
566 544 464 577 573 480 615 635 525 753 760 608 820 702 947 965 847 113 1025 869 1148 988 1160 1174

 

Thanks

At a glance it doesn't look like anything close to a little over 826% reduction in attendance/participation to match the lost "Profit" .....

Could the roughly half-million loss of "Profit" reflect the ATA gouging the campers and vendors in Sparta BFE land ?????

They use the word "Profit" ..... "Profit is the money you have left after paying for business expenses" .....

So ..... if we use a 20% "Profit Model" ..... You would need 2.5 million in revenue/income to get a half-million in "Profit" .....

The ATA doesn't own the 'WSRC' ..... So are they Subletting/Subleasing for enough additional money to show the additional "Profit" in 2021 over 2020 ?????

What is the purpose of making millions with "investments" ..... if .....no one seems to benefit from these great "investment" gains .....

A Global Charity has a strange way "to promote and govern the sport of amateur trapshooting throughout the world" ..... by gouging people for money they should not need, for use of property they do not own .....