POLL - Should the PA State Trapshoot draw for banks or walk the field? POLL

Discussion in 'Trapshooting Forum - Americantrapshooter.com' started by merlo, Jan 11, 2023.

?

Should the PA State Shoot adopt random drawing for banks or walking the field.

  1. No

    4 vote(s)
    5.7%
  2. Yes

    66 vote(s)
    94.3%
  1. merlo

    merlo Mega Poster Forum Reporter

    Since a thread about this subject has been lingering, let’s ask the shooters.

    Should the PA State Shoot adopt a more fair method of assigning banks such as drawing for banks and walking the field?

    I report. You decide.
    merlo out
     
  2. Mike Poore

    Mike Poore Active Member

    While we're making PA better, why not include Ohio, VA, WV, Maryland, Missouri, New York? The reason they don't do it is BECAUSE IT DOESN'T WORK!
     
  3. CCfan

    CCfan Active Member

    Not much difference at Ohio now due to the shot screens. WV (old home grounds) are the same.
     
  4. Wally Worker

    Wally Worker Member US Navy Retired

    What part of it doesn’t work? I’ll get popcorn.
     
    Mike Poore likes this.
  5. Smithy

    Smithy Mega Poster Founding Member

    above statement coming from PA crony.
     
  6. BRAD DYSINGER

    BRAD DYSINGER The Philosophist Founding Member Member Trapshooting Hall of Fame Member State Hall of Fame

    Mike you are wrong. It worked for years and years. All shoots should walk the line if you want a fair shoot. Many of today's AA's can't shoot a good score if not on their pet bank. I would have voted yes twice if I could have.

    If you are satisfied with the Pa shoots' loss of shooters over the past 15 years then by all means keep catering to the RULING CLASS and their buds.

    I've shot PA state shoots when we walked the line that had 1500 shooters in one event. I shot the grand that had 4000 shooters in an event and we walked the line plus we didn't get to pick our handicap squad or post.

    I guess you are just addmiting that today's ATA shooters have no talent, too fat, or balless and want everything handed to them. Since that is what you believe I guess you are right it won't work today.

    Why don't you let everyone shoot the whole 100 on one trap and one post. That should really raise PA's attendence.
     
    Wildcat Lewis, rrisum, Zinger and 4 others like this.
  7. BRAD DYSINGER

    BRAD DYSINGER The Philosophist Founding Member Member Trapshooting Hall of Fame Member State Hall of Fame

    And Mike I forgot to mention all of those shoots were done with ink an paper long long before the first computer.
     
  8. Mike Poore

    Mike Poore Active Member

    Bring some for me Wally
     
  9. Mike Poore

    Mike Poore Active Member

    Hey Brad, telk me when you walked the line at Maringo. Now you want to go back to crayons & chalk boards.
     
    oleolliedawg likes this.
  10. BRAD DYSINGER

    BRAD DYSINGER The Philosophist Founding Member Member Trapshooting Hall of Fame Member State Hall of Fame

    Mike I was lucky to get the osta to switch ends on the 16's championship day so at least you had to shoot 8 different traps. That has went away at the CC too. We had just as many dead head thinkers on the osta as pa does. I will say that my years on the board we had over 1000 entries most years an as high as 1200 something.

    When Don and I were on the OSTA we shot for cars, motor cycles, shells, guns, golf carts, and lots of smaller items.

    I would think that going back to 1500 shooters would be atractive to any association, let alone one hard up for cash. You can't go back to chalk and crayons because the help clubs get today can't add, write, or form a thought.

    The "help" sucks at a large trap shoot, don't know the rules and it would appear that from another thread the line refs and TD at Pa don't either.

    Pa and the ATA both headed in a fantastic direction.
     
    Wildcat Lewis, Dobyns, Zinger and 4 others like this.
  11. Jon Reitz

    Jon Reitz Well-Known Member V I P

    “Marengo” is spelled “Marengo”…
     
    Mike Poore likes this.
  12. Mike Poore

    Mike Poore Active Member

    Yeah, Jon, I misspelled tell (to telk) also, but the "edit" feature doesn't work for me. It's embarrassing too, because being from PA I'm supposed to be smarter than them Ohio guys.
     
  13. Jim/Canton

    Jim/Canton Mega Poster

    Mike…
    We have shot screens at the CC.
    The background is pretty much the same. I have shot at PA. I don’t understand why you said fairness won’t work in PA.
     
    oleolliedawg likes this.
  14. BRAD DYSINGER

    BRAD DYSINGER The Philosophist Founding Member Member Trapshooting Hall of Fame Member State Hall of Fame

    When I was actively shooting ATA I walked the line at all clubs I shot at in AZ, at three different clubs in Reno, two in Las Vegas, in Kansas, in Iowa, in Nebraska, in Missouri, at 5 or 6 clubs in Florida, every club with more than 4 traps in Ohio, in Indiana, in Michigan, in ILLINOIS, Tenn, VA, every club I ever shot at in Pa with more than 4 traps, in NJ, NY, DEL, and every other state that I shot in before Winston and his buddies runied Trap Shooting.

    Once they put in the million dollar row for campers at Vandalia they went to the bank system. I beat that because there was no pre squading and you had to at least stand in line to get your bank. Shortly the fat, lazy ATA members with friends on the EC and lots of cash demanded to BUY their squads. I've had several knock down's with Stuart about that to no avail. So here we are.
     
  15. Mike Poore

    Mike Poore Active Member

    Brad, you should write a book. Many of us new shooters (I'm 82, but only shooting ~25 yrs) have no real feel for the legacy and history of the game and how it has evolved over the years. One thing we all agree upon, is that it's in steep decline due to a host of reasons, and that there are no easy fix's. Get busy & write the book, I'll buy it.
     
  16. MOE

    MOE Mega Poster Founding Member

    I think Indianna should be included in that as well, I suppose you could suggest Michigan as well, although unlike Indianna which has fields with a definite advantage.
     
  17. shortbarrel

    shortbarrel Well-Known Member

    You have something against electric power?
     
    MOE likes this.
  18. Smithy

    Smithy Mega Poster Founding Member

    Mike…..
    We don’t all agree with you. Trapshooting is on the decline due to three factors. Not a host!

    One factor is pure corruption. Yeah. Like thinking we can go to PA and the tournament directors are going to treat everyone fairly. Your crony friends won’t do that. You can own that one.

    Making the targets less sporting. That broke the handicap system. It took the money out of the game.

    The move to the gun hate.

    At least you admit you are clueless about the history of trapshooting. The fixes are simple.

    No one cares how little you know. You admit you are clueless about the sport and the history. Your uneducated opinion is worthless.
     
  19. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Mega Poster Founding Member

    Since you're in the know how much will it cost me and my family to become prima donnas in PA and get those preferred banks? I'm not interested in becoming a lodge member (I was approached years ago) so I failed rule #1. I suppose it comes down to making a significant contribution to the welfare of the organization since the traps are already accounted for. Maybe a donation to the construction of the Sporting Clays course -oops, that's going nowhere. Must I wait until openings are created when the current prima donnas either quit or die-I'm 74 yo so that's unlikely to work. Please advise me on the proper course of action!
     
  20. Jumanji

    Jumanji Well-Known Member

    Pat traps are not paid for, there is a significant loan still outstanding for them. Same deal with the golf carts.
     
  21. Mike Poore

    Mike Poore Active Member

    Andy, no one is ponying up the $5,000 beans for a bank & a parking spot anymore. Besides, with 5 & 6 shut down, there aren't many banks remaining to whine about. Eight banks are about all they can staff anyway.
     
  22. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Mega Poster Founding Member

    Hmm, the parking spots were permanent I believe at one time but that changed. I can assume the trap banks aren't permanent too or are some groups special?
     
    BRAD DYSINGER likes this.
  23. Mike Poore

    Mike Poore Active Member

    Not any more, Andy. Preference for banks & parking spots were taken away from the volunteers and reserved for the EC & certain payed employees. Now that Bob Stuart is doing the pre-squadding on-line, and the mail in shenanigans have ceased, there's little reward or incentive to volunteer.
     
  24. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Mega Poster Founding Member

    I suppose I'll take a few looks at those names again and see just who is still special.
     
  25. Dave Berlet

    Dave Berlet State HOF Founding Member Member Trapshooting Hall of Fame Member State Hall of Fame


    Brad, back many years ago when you were young and a few years before that when I was young it seemed like the old folks who were shooting were able to walk the line. The bank system should never have come to competitive trapshooting. Walking the line, or skipping traps levels out the playing field, even if the background is consistent. Now with the migration to everyone having a golf cart the distance between traps shouldn't really be a problem, other than some folks not being able to shoot on their favorite traps all the time. I agree that the million dollar campground and the bank system was not good for trapshooting, but I was really hurt when you started picking on some of us plump, unmotivated shooters.

    Also the handicap system can't work as intended if you have mandatory yardage and don't have mandatory reductions. Your yardage is supposed to represent your ability at the present time, not what it was years in the past.

    Dave Berlet
     
  26. T Jordan

    T Jordan Well-Known Member V I P

    Your forgetting they old guys got on the wagon they did not walk.
     
    just joe likes this.
  27. BRAD DYSINGER

    BRAD DYSINGER The Philosophist Founding Member Member Trapshooting Hall of Fame Member State Hall of Fame

    Now the old guys drive their golf cart one trap to the next, as the young guys do too and all trap shooters get fatter and fatter. Terry have you ever looked around at the average size of today's 18 year old and compaired those pictures to our generation back when we were 18. Fat, fat and way out of shape. A real shame. The walking would do every trap shooter that was not disabled a lot of good.

    The ATA used to let those with a handicap shoot on a couple of special banks and Pa could do that. I'm way past caring about registered ATA shooting. The reason I get on here is to make sure someon's miss information doesn't have a free voice to spread bull shit.
     
  28. Jon Reitz

    Jon Reitz Well-Known Member V I P

    Bring Skip back and things would improve overnight.
     
    Zinger likes this.
  29. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Mega Poster Founding Member

    I understand he'll be looking for a job very soon.
     
    BRAD DYSINGER likes this.
  30. Rn3

    Rn3 Well-Known Member

    He is currently unemployed.
     
    oleolliedawg likes this.
  31. Jon Reitz

    Jon Reitz Well-Known Member V I P

    Talked to him this morning...
     
    oleolliedawg likes this.
  32. Rn3

    Rn3 Well-Known Member

    Missouri Trap Shooters Assn Inc

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    Michael Lumetta
     
  33. PaulLori27

    PaulLori27 Active Member

    Is PA considering making the shoots more fair? Does anyone know that latest on this?
     
  34. jeri534

    jeri534 Active Member

    As someone who has only shot at PA once, which are the "preferred" banks, and why so?
     
    ric1911a1 likes this.
  35. Justin L.

    Justin L. Active Member

    Banks 1, 2, and 3- although on 3 (especially the C and D traps) you do see some of the campground in the background. Personally I always preferred banks 7 and 8, which is nice because there wasn’t much trouble getting squads there.
     
  36. Zinger

    Zinger Member Founding Member

    I think that decision should be voted on by the shooters and not the club delegates.
    The southern grand scrambles the banks and nobody complains and even when RJ Stuart was running the shoot.
    It would be only fair that shooters were given the opportunity to shoot banks they’ve never had a chance of getting. Problem is, getting it pass the EC to allow a vote. Jmo
    And Mike Poore, it does work.
     
  37. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Mega Poster Founding Member

    No one ever walked the line at Marengo unless you forgot or were too cheap to rent a cart. We didn't walk the line very often in PA either as we had buggies and drivers. Heck, we even had a kid run over and killed by one of those buggies in PA many years ago. Problem with a few posters is both selective memory and still believing they are 30 years old instead of 70. Since a few of 'em don't even shoot anymore they probably believe we're still shooting Remington 1100's and shells loaded with cardboard wads. Scrambling banks works great in FL but I'd like to see some dreaming posters cross the highway walking the line to finish their last two traps. Some say heavy recoil can affect your brain.
     
  38. PaShooter

    PaShooter Member

    Talk Louis out of retirement manning the bar in Elysburg and I’m sure attendance would increase
    Paul H, Imperial Pa
     
    BRAD DYSINGER likes this.
  39. BRAD DYSINGER

    BRAD DYSINGER The Philosophist Founding Member Member Trapshooting Hall of Fame Member State Hall of Fame

    I will agree with ollie that today's ATA shooters are made up of the fat and lazy who are so out of shape that they can't tote their $20,000 shotguns from one field to the next without a golf cart.

    Half the ATA active shooters are jr's and sub jr's with Aim and SCTP shooters having to be ATA members to shoot. The other half is mostly sub vets, vets, and sr vets. Not a very stable group to count on if you are in business either way. A fantastic direction for sure.
     
    Roger Coveleskie likes this.
  40. Peter Farrand

    Peter Farrand Active Member

    I think random banks for all shooters is a great idea!
     
    BRAD DYSINGER likes this.
  41. EUREKA Post 2

    EUREKA Post 2 Active Member Past State President

    What is the latest on this poll? Did the PA leaders get together and make a decision on this? Is there a meeting scheduled? It looks like almost 94% of the shooters favor a fair system.
     
  42. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Mega Poster Founding Member

    If you're over 70 yo you'll die before you ever see a change in the old boys' network. By that time Elysburg will look like Vandalia today. We can only hope someone comes to their senses.
     
  43. offset

    offset Active Member

    It's the other 6 percent that is the problem. The PSSA in crowd.
     
  44. I have shot Pa for over 30 years. I do not pre squad and I usually get the banks I ask for. I don't know what all the fuss is about. The reason attendance has fallen has nothing to do with the banks. Cost and the rise of sporting clays as well as the feeling by many of the younger generation that guns are evil has led to the decline. I doubt that the sport will ever have the participation that it had in the past.
     
  45. mark shimchick

    mark shimchick New Member

    i always shot good banks at Pa. because we pre-squaded. if you are not able to pay the pre-squad fee; perhaps you should not be shooting.
     
  46. Flyersarebest

    Flyersarebest Moderator Founding Member Forum Leader

    Hello Mark, nice to see you and welcome to the site. Sorry I missed your first post back in July or I would have said hello and welcome then.

    You know me starting 45 years ago when you ran with Charlie, and Lenny and I were running together.
    I don't think the reason people don't pre-squad is because they can't afford it.

    Flyersarebest
    Moderator.
     
  47. LimaShooter50

    LimaShooter50 Mega Poster Founding Member

    It works in Indiana but some in PA aren’t into fair competition.
     
    oleolliedawg likes this.
  48. harryone

    harryone Moderator Staff Member

    If you are here to spell check then this forum may not be the place to hang around.