The Honest year in PA?

Will this be the year our PA Shoot has a fair blind draw for banks. Or will this be a fare year? You pay a fare to get a preferred bank?

How much integrity do our leaders have?

 

Has not changed in the last 53 years that I have attended. What makes you think the good old boys are going to give us suckers a fair shot.

 

Now that there's on-line pre-squadding on RJ Stuart exclusively, it shouldn't be difficult to shoot the banks you choose. .

 

It shouldn’t be. Lol. Go ahead and ask for the preferred banks. Notice a good old boy defending not having equal opportunity to the preferred banks. The blind draw would solve the issue right Mike?

Tell us why you oppose that! Should be a good story!

 

According to Mike all of the shooters can shoot on the same banks. You will only need three banks.

 

The way it's going, attendance wise, 3 banks should do it. OK, I'll share my secret: for day 1, I pre squad for post 1 on bank 1 1st squad. It costs $2. I'm asked for 3 choices of time or bank. Always say 1,2 or3 & early squad. This does 2 big things: it saves me standing in line for classification and the line at squadding because that $2 investment took care of it. Then, after I've shot that first event, I go back to squaddind with no wait & get my best picks for whatever's left. Sometimes it's tough to get a post on bank 10 for doubles, but usually I'm fairly lucky. If you want to shoot on your squad, that's a different story. The big thing is to avoid the lines for classification and squadding.. my $2 Investment up front took care of that. Having a draw for banks just does not work with Bob Stuart's computer system. At Elysburg or the Cardinal Center.

 

Now it’s Bob Stuart’s fault? His computer programs fault? Indiana can do it. Tell me what part Bob Stuart can’t handle.

The banks aren’t radically different at the CC. Nice try.

Pick a story Mike and stick to it.

 

Nice cast... um do you shoot?

 

Amazing quote…..

All along it was fair. Just because Stuart is running the show, we can all shoot the same bank.

 

If a state can elect Fetterman for its senator, anything is possible

 

Back in the day PA was so concerned about making the game fair and honest they walked 10 traps. I think that was pre-Fetterman.

 

I made that walk a bunch of times. But I think I was younger.

Ron B

 

Ron, that walk back up the hill was a hoot! Did you ever make the hike with Tom Burkey?

 

I made that walk with Tom Burkey and HY “Mac” AcAllister a few times. Mostly down the hill and then rode the wagon back up.

Ron B

 

Sadly, we lost Tom in July '21, but Mac still occupies window 3 in classification & shoots on Ken's squad occasionally depending upon the weather. So far as the good 'ol boys they're bitching about, he's the only one still living.

 

Mike…..
So what is the reason we can’t have a fair blind draw for banks or walk the field? Is it RJ? Or is it possible we can all have the same banks? Or, are you saying for the record anyone can have any bank if you pre-squad?

And if it is due to computer programming, why can’t that be overcome?

Also, didn’t RJ Stuart do the Indiana Shoot? How did that workout? They have a blind draw?

 

No. Stuart is at PA and Cardinal Center only. I'll ask again, are you a trap shooter? And now, a new question: Are you John Fetterman? (it's sort of a hobby, to guess who's hiding behind screen names)

 

When a person responds to a question with insults and a veiled threat “hiding behind screen names” you can be sure you asked the right question.

I didn’t ask if Stuart is doing Indiana now. He did at one time right? You aren’t going to answer those questions? Maybe one of our PA leaders will step up to the plate.

BTW I am hoping we can meet on one of those imaginary traps us regulars don’t get to use. And you didn’t hurt my feelings. But the effort is appreciated.

 

Hey Fellas,
Myself and a few friends went north out of KY and shot the PA grand. What a nice place you have to shoot.
Interestingly we pre-squaded and ended up shooting bank 7 throughout. LOL
Not making any suggestions, will only say it was a learning experience for sure.
We enjoyed it none the less and all in the party commented on the grounds\facility. Very nice.
Really hard to understand the Fetterman thing tho.

 

Is that a “link” you posted?
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Does the information provided there confuse you? If so feel free to pm a moderator. -harry
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I thought PA might change some things when Skip moved to Missouri. Not so.

 

Elysburg is a nice place to shoot, and personally- Banks 7 and 8 are my favorite ones to shoot on, so you guys did just fine.

 

Thanks for the kind words.
We had a good time there all things considered. I did not have even an average outing. Some was due to an adjustment I had just made and some was due to the cross wind on the hill. LOL
We later learned from some of the locals, that we should have to tried to squad on the lower side for a better experience.

 

There're just so many openings left on Bank 3 since the prima donnas have been shooting that same bank for over 25 years. These snowflakes must not be offended. I won't even mention how much belonging to the lodge influences the decision-making process. The peasants are offered bank 5 as an alternative on a daily basis. Somehow, when Stuart ran the FL shoots at the SD bank selection was eliminated. Afterall, since attendance has plummeted at the PSSA for decades why acknowledge an issue when in a few years the only ones left standing will still be shooting bank 3. Vendors also take a hit because the same people shooting the same upper banks rarely have a reason to shop and the lower bank shooters often sit in their trailers with little need to head up to the upper section to look around. Notice how few vendors attend that shoot compared to the old days! That said, the PSSA and its operators have clearly defined insanity-keep doing the same thing over and over while expecting different results.

 

The most dishonest thing about Pa. was when a Pa. shooter won the GAH from the 18, shot something like 7000 handicap targets with no punch, played all the options-shot 100 in the GAH and went 50 straight in the shoot off -there should be an asterisk next to his name

 

This guy played the system extremely well. Maybe it's time to look at who classified him since he had a history of known ability. Anyway, those multiple short yardage victors from KY make him look like a real amateur. Heck, they tell me yardage markers in KY only extend to the 21.

 

One of the misunderstandings about classification is the notion that Known Ability has any affect upon Handicap yardage. In SOME cases the classification team may assign a class: D through AAA in events other than Handicap, meaning only singles & doubles; but not in Handicap. In some cases, the State Delegate might be able to take action, but I've never seen an instance when this has happened. There were three individuals who shot at two clubs, one in WV & one in PA where the improprieties were alleged to have taken place. A thorough review of the records from those clubs was conducted by the State Delegate and his team, and a number of targets were removed from those shooters ATA records, and no further action was taken by the ATA, but sanctions were levied by PSSA. That was for the 2014 target year, as I recall.

 

Back in the pre-Poore days we had a President named Gene Anastasia. Gene made the point that all those scores shot during the Winter at certain clubs would be disregarded for classification. That's what remembering ancient history will do for ya. I'm sure Mack can refresh your memory if needed.

 

Andy, Mac, Tom & I had more than a few discussions about how Gene did things when he was ATA President and Mac was Delegate. Of course Tom saw a lot & knew where many of the bodies wewe buried. PSSA is a far different organization from those days, and as much as many would like to see much of it returned, the sad reality is that it's only gonna get worse. I'm a very lucky kid (at 82) to have been sitting behind window #1, listening to Tom & Mac reminisce. On occasion, John Deicher would join us, and those times were good ones to keep my mouth shut & listen.

 

Now you know why I was always asked for my personal opinion from those old powers at the top. I panned skeet fields and vendor buildings but encouraged 3-hole targets and a Sporting Clays course. At least I'm batting .500!

 

And it's why I'm always interested in what you have to say, and your prospective from that side of things. So far as the Clays part, Skip has MTA rocking & rolling.

 

He just happened to flare up that day.

 

Are there still plans for a sporting clays course at Elysburg? I haven’t heard much on that lately.

 

Ollie…..the corruption is so ingrained the peasants no longer play the money. And why should they? If the field draw isn’t fair why should they bother buying birds?

 

This thread is full of fighting words. Smithy accusing the PSSA of giving good ‘ol boys preferred traps at the State Shoot and others. Jmho…that’s like rigging the shoot. One person from PA stands up and says it’s been happening a long time and the others act like it’s no big deal.

Some of the worst traps were the tri state. And we walked those traps.

I hear Indiana can do it and Ohio put up shot screens making a more uniform background. The sport is being choked from many angles. We don’t need to fight ourselves too! Wake up PA. The shooters aren’t the enemy!

 

We all know the primary reason for the long lines at PSSA-it's preferential pre-squadding. How many times is it necessary to go back through the same line more than once because all that's offered is bank 5. Now you have to wait until another flight is opened and hope there's openings other than bank 5. Pre-squadding should only be offered for times of day-not traps or not at all.

 

Agree with the dawg w a slight twist. Pre-squad for time of day and to shoot with friends. Banks get the blind draw. Giving banks to friends of the club is cheating. Why pretend it ain’t?

 

The OP got the title wrong for the thread. Should say another year at PA. If you don’t like the PA game you can shoot elsewhere. Unfair or not PA is allowed to create their own rules. You won’t see the ATA demanding they raise the bar.

 

Absolutely correct. Shooters should vote with their feet. Darn, they already are-along with the vendors!

 

Are you suggesting that the ATA should dictate squading procedures to the PSSA?

 

The ATA is not in charge of operations that choose to be fools.

 

Why not? We have a rules committee. Is the ATA above making trapshooting competitions fair? Imagine what that would do to the ATA reputation?

What would the consequences be? Everyone having an equal chance?

 

Yes!

Do you think our delegate would bring that up for a vote? Add one sentence to the rule book.

“All banks shall be determined by blind draw in such a manner that is fair and equal to all competitors”
Why would our delegate or PA leaders be against that?

 

They are against it because they can't control the blind draw with people watching. Plus, our delegate and his cronies are some of the shooters who live on bank three.

 

Nooooo? Who saw that coming? Not all of our PA leaders are corrupt are they? There must be one or two that want a fair shoot. I’ll standby to see who pops their head up.

 

The inmates are running the asylum. If anyone thinks the system will ever change, they're badly mistaken. Just accept bank 5 and play all the money. Your donation will be appreciated. The big donators that kept that place in the black are all below ground. The place is governed by the law of diminishing returns-fewer entries and higher target prices while the shooter base is quitting in droves. The clock is ticking.

 

Mr Dawg
You seem to have very little faith in our delegate. I was under the impression we have a new regime. Skips gone. This should be the beginning of our new era.

 

You know better than to ask!

 

Would be interesting to see a draw system, been told that would upset the harmony of the shoot and slow it down to much. Remember the good years walking between traps…last time up I showed up on a Friday to shoot two events, proceed to squadding to be told only bank available was 8….thanks but no thanks….kept going back and finally got bank two that somehow they decided to open a squad forGot to the line and seeing the shooters I know why the bank opened up…..Thinking last time I went back…….Paul H, Imperial,PA.

 

They're running out of excuses. We ran over 300 squads not that long ago but getting around 200 and now it's a problem. I can't think of a better term than FOS! I suppose that standing in line multiple times attempting trying to get a better bank doesn't slow things down? I'd say they're addicted to the pre-squad money and could care less what the shooters think.

 

It would sure fill those holes of empty squads.

 

We have the big screen at the CC. Not much difference from bank to bank. You PA folk are welcome at the CC.

 

The current EC doesn’t have anything to worry about they are doing a great job. Watch this years numbers.

 

Is this going to be a good year?

 

No, It was a joke. They won’t change anything. Numbers keep going down.

 

Mike, RJ does the silver dollar and they only do draw banks. Every morning! and if you don’t Presquad, you Have to take the first available spot. So, the only way we’re going to get fairness in PA is to have it voted on by the members. Get the club delegates to talk to their shooters and get it on a ballot.

 

Everyone knows nothing can be done as the powers to be simply don’t care to listen or give everyone a fair chance at good banks. Good shooters can shoot anywhere!

 

All it takes is a significant contribution to buy your way to the preferred banks. You need to talk to someone with a check in hand.

 

RJ dosn't do the Silver Dollar anymore. Drawing for banks is 1980's tech. Too hard for today's ATA State Associations.

 

RJ does NOT do the Dollar, and hasn't for 5 years, at least. His system is at the Cardinal ctr & PSSA, only, and that's because the replacement software that the ATA has been promising isn't ready, yet. We thought 3S was the answer & now there's a new one, and there will be others. I'm thinking there will come a time when the scorer's chair will have direct real-time input, with scores being posted instantly, but who knows, the way things are going, maybe trap shooting is gonna be a distant memory, anyway.

 

With the tech available today that should not be a very difficult leap.