Can't Side With Brad Anymore

For years I've pretty much always thought that no matter how the message was delivered Brad pretty much hit the nail on the head. When this turmoil over the WSC in Sparta started I knew right away that although it sounded to good to be true it would probably work out because they had a plan for the future. Brad never seemed as convinced as I was and he wasn't afraid to express his pessimism regarding Sparta. Well I got a big campsite for ten years and never looked back, pretty confident that Brad really missed on his predictions. Well seven years later I started remembering some of the things Brad had said and I was thinking, "how did he know this might happen?" Well now ten years have gone by and it looks like the WSC has also. The last couple months I felt pretty sure things were looking bad and Brad had hit all the numbers. Just as I was getting ready to declare Brad right once again the sky's opened up and Gipson gave us a plan. You see the WSC has never been used enough to make it a financial winner so now the ATA is working on a plan to fully utilize the facility throughout the year. Just read it, so once again I might not be able to side with Brad because the ATA is working on a plan, a big plan, a really big plan. So sit back to get ready to be amazed. Honestly, I'm still listening to Brad I just don't want to admit it right now.

 

They have seen the light? Going to put "Longshot" in charge and all will be saved? We will be shooting targets set from the past, all will flock back to the ATA and the sun will come out, the sky will be blue, no wind?

Say it isn't sooooooo!!!!!!

 

I would like to be in charge, but not at a losing site like Sparta, there is nothing for the ladies to do and no where to stay, Branson Mo. is too far.

GB DLS

 

"Branson is too far".........maybe by horse and carriage. Trapshooters all over the country drive hundreds and thousands of miles to shoot trap. There are cars, planes, motor homes, buses, all sorts of ways to move across the country. A singular annual event like The Grand should not be effected by a little thing like distance to a serious trapshooter. It would be nice if the Grand could be held in everybody's backyard, but the country is too big. Perhaps a Grand that is held in different parts of the country every year. Maybe more non ATA trapshooters who live outside the Midwest would join the ATA with a moving Grand. Do you ever hear pro tennis players grumbling about the Tennis Championships being held at England? I bet there are as many tennis players out side England than there is in England. Perhaps a few million more?

 

Az,

You are a little late to the arguments. All merits have been argued ad nauseum. Opposing camps have been dug in and entrenched for quite some time. Nothing is going to change from within.

Sparta is changing from without.

 

Zealot,

I do 't think I am late. I am just trying to tell these people using one of their own tactics that they cannot speak about Sparta or ATA, because they do not participate at neither.

If they read the ATA bible, they would know the falsehoods, that they have been lied to by their false prophets.

Their gods have feet of clay and has mislead them for years with this false religion.

It is well past time to bring them into the light and show them the truth.

Can I get an Amen?

.

 

What are the qualifications to discuss Sparta?

 

According to one poster here, a person who does not attend a State Shoot and Sparta every year is not qualified to talk about it.

 

If you were in charge, you could have it anywhere you wanted to. Don't wimp out now. Anyone who is good enough to beat Big Don is not afraid of a little thing like fixing all of the ATA.

You have been telling us at every opportunity how great the ATA and you were, back in the day.

Step up. The ATA needs a respectable leader, maybe if they can't find one you will get your chance.

 

They've had respectable folks that they ran out. It might be said that the ATA primarily cares about keeping a small gambling racket intact for a chosen few shooters.

 

Smoking357,

If you were an ATA member, you would know the myth about gambling supported by ATA is another belief held by low information people. Games, options and Special Events held at any shoot is decided by the people holding the shoot. You really expect us to believe all those none ATA shoots your heroes participate are void of money games?

If you, DLS any the rest of the ATA haters were really serious about participating in the ATA, why not make DLS your ATA delegate and let him address the delegates across the nation in person as he addresses them from here?

 

AZCO

I do not understand you wanting DLS. Doesn't your hero Gipson have everything going in a "fantastic direction" as he stated? Are you jumping ship?

If honest and integrity are everything....Gipson has to be the choice right?

 

FG,

Gibson is not my hero, I do not believe in hero worship. All I am saying is DLS cannot make a difference (nor can anybody else) if all they do is sit on their ass and complain about how bad things are, have been and will be. Run as a delegate, get elected and do something about the problems he perceives instead of crying about it 24/7/365. He needs to show the delegates from the U.S., Canada and elsewhere, why he is the only one right and they are all wrong.

 

AZCO
The folks that poured the Kool Ade for you are the people you should be attacking.
Most of these issues that this forum has discussed have been proven true. Many of doc's as well. Nothing from you.

What member of the ATA is not permitted to criticize his leaders? Are you implying it is in the ATA by laws? If so please state where.

You keep thumping the ATA Bible. Is the first commandment "thou shall not have the power to critique unless you are an officer?"
If so please quote that chapter and verse.

 

I'm not attacking anyone. I am simply saying step up, do what you talk about. He's calling people cowards and accusing them of not acting like a man, yet he will not step up. Who is the real coward? The one who takes on the job, or the one who sits on his ass, criticizes and resorts to name calling? Talk about hero worship, you should see a doctor about yours, a real doctor.

 

AZCO

You are the one carrying the ATA bible. So is there a section where it states you are not permitted to criticize your leaders in the ATA? Is there a section where you are not permitted to challenge other shooters to shoot harder targets?

Please list some the suggestions you have had for the ATA to help the sport.

You really don't care about the sport's members as you recently implied we did not need the 20,000 shooters we recently lost. As you said they "did not have the commitment anyway."

Prove me wrong and show us your previous suggestions.

 

You are really something else FG, trying to put words in my mouth. I never said ATA is free from criticisms or that members can't criticize. Certainly, I can criticize the do - nothing's who complain, complain, complain. We don't don't need them. I do not deny what I said in jest or seriousness in my previous posts. You lack the ability to know the difference.


Same suggestion to you, step up, get elected, make the changes if you are so damn unhappy with the way things are.

 

FG

You look at the "ATA" as some sore of ruling body who controls the membership. I look at the ATA as the membership that controls the ATA functions. Included in that membership are people who could care less what happens at Sparta or the rules inflicted by the Delegates representing the membership. Those people will shoot as long as they can afford to. There are members who get involved and help decide the future of the ATA. There are also members who bitch and complain and do nothing to fix the imaginary problems they see, or even boycott Sparta out of hate. Which one of those are you?

 

AZCO

Still waiting for any of those ways or suggestions you have had to help the sport......so far zero.

I can help you. Thus far you have made it clear that you did not care we lost 20,000 shooters recently. As you said, "they weren't committed anyway." So the best you can do is tell all not to complain or afford suggestions, or criticize the leadership. This is your leadership roll? The best you can do thus far is say it is ok we lost 2o,000 members.

You sound like the 4 stooges that were at the other place.

Still waiting for another suggestion you have had other than boycotting your own state shoot.

 

AZ = LLLLOOOOOOOOOSSSSSSSTTTTTT !

 

Zealot,

Okay, looks like another minion of DLS has exposed himself. Where's the garlic and the cross?

Family guy, you really are THAT stupid aren't you? Certainly can't understand I missed my State shoot because of some health issues that I already told you about, can you. BTW, it may be another 2-3 months before I can shoot, but your so crass, that doesn't hold any sway for a dimwit like you does it?

Your doing the same thing you accuse me of doing when you criticize the ATA, the ATA is the membership that makes it up.

 

I know better AZCO as previously you told me it because you had health issues and one time because a family member had health issues and once when you were using another name it was because you could not leave your business.

So tell us about those ideas you have.

 

What business? I am retired? I have health issues which cause me to miss Colorado State. I have some minor transportation issues that I can fix, once I get healthy.

My mother was hospitalized in the Spring that caused me to miss the AZ State and Spring Grand.

My ideas? Everything is fine, I have no complaints. You have me confused with some other fools complaining about I gained problems with ATA.

Only thing I would suggest is do everything possible to keep the ATA HQ and Grand returning to Ohio.

By the way, how you doing there at Sparta this week?

 

No...I am sure I do not. And now the story goes back to anther person in the family had health issues. Too bad you cant erase those posts?

If that is a slap at me it did not hurt. I do not claim to represent OH but they have 3 huge shoot dates. Much bigger than the State Shoot in CO that you boycott. Their marketing program seems to be working. All the states in that area seem to be doing OK.

Tell us how your plan is working in your state. You must at least read about your state shoot.

227 entries on the handicap right?

 

FG,


I still understand what your moronic logic means that I cannot defend the ATA, of which I am an active member, from non members who hate it, because I failed to attend 2 State shoots in the 2 States where I have residences.

 

You might want to edit your above post and add some words .

From what you typed in that next to last last sentence it looks like you WANT the Grand to return to the state where it had the most shooters actually shooting the GAH.

I too would love to see 3000+ shooters actually shooting the GAH again.

If you typed it correctly, I'm glad to see you realize that sparta was a lousy choice.

Flyersarebest

 

Can't edit it. Time limit is 6 minutes. Maybe it is a Freudian slip? I really want the Grand to return to Ohio. I like messing with the minds of the little people here.

Actually, it makes no difference where it is located. It is a once a year event, if I have the money, the time, the health, the way to get there, I will go.

 

If it was a "slip" then I guess this is what you wanted to say ,

"Only thing I would suggest is do everything possible to keep the ATA HQ and Grand FROM returning to Ohio."

There ya go I fixed it for you.

Flyersarebest

 

Thank you very much.

 

"Actually, it makes no difference where it is located."

Here's something to think about. There are probably 20 clubs within a 1 hour drive from my house. From little two trap places to decent size 8 trap facilities. These were big enough to hold the western zone for PA. I could name 40 people just from my club alone that would make the trip to Vandalia.

When you added up the number of shooters from all the other clubs along with the ones from mine it would be three times that or more. When you walked around the grounds it looked like you were back home at a weekend registered shoot. These guys/gals still go to the PA, Ohio, and WV state shoots. They still shoot a few thousand 16's a year. They still pay their dues.

Since the move?

I know one guy that went the first year and never went back.

To them "location" does make a difference.

THAT is the main problem for them. And from the number of GAH shooters, apparently for a lot more.

Flyersarebest

 

No problem. I didn't want you to mislead anyone.

Flyersarebest

 

Well, when one is removed by one thousand, 1500 or 2000 300o miles when it was in Ohio and just 300 miles less in Illinois, for those in the West, the 300 miles more travel for those in OH, Mi, PA, and points East seems kind of trivial and petty. But we out West have had it explained to us many times that we don't count and are not important to the importance of having the Grand in the State with the largest concentration of shooters. You would have to live here, in and West of the Rockies to understand it. So you will just have to understand we being the shooters nobody wants or cares about, just can't share your grief over losing the Grand to IL.

 

AZCO
You forget....OH PA and the local states got over it quick. They built their own venue. How quick did they get over it? They were throwing registered targets at the CC before Sparta.

What many did not get over was the alleged corruption.

Also Ohio and PA traveled better to IL than IL ever traveled to OH.

 

See what I mean people? Just in his own little world.

Still bitchin' about it 10 years later, but telling you he and the rest of them got over it. Yeah, right.

 

Who is complaining? AZCO, you brought it up complaining you are losing your grand. There is advice above. Build your own venue.

My area has 4 major shoots. Do not rely on the ATA.

Do not rely on shooters from other states to make your shoot successful.

 

My complaining is not about losing the Grand. I cannot lose what I never had. It is about the low class people who hate the ATA, yet say they have no need for it and never shut up about it.

 

The Grand should be moved back to where it started.

 

Nothing like stepping off the tarmac after a short flight and hearing those shotguns popping just across the field. That was Vandalia!

Sparta can only cater to the motor home trinket shooting crowd because of the lack of infrastructure. After 10 years-nothing!

 

AZCO: so tell me what the comparison is of a Pro-Tennis player making hundreds of thousands dollars a year compare to a $50,000 a year trapshooter and wife traveling approx. 200 miles to Branson during a shoot at Sparta, and shooting the same day in multiple events? I do not see it!!!


GB DLS

 

Yeah, that's pretty much what you've been saying.

 

Whoa, smoking, that was a pretty snappy comeback.

 

DLS,

Oh, so it really is about money and not the glory, huh? Figures.

 

Historically Trap Shooting has always been about the money. It just an abomination in the last 20 years or so that made it about ribbons.
What glory is there in trap shooting today? Fewer shooters, easier targets [both angle and distance] special categories. I suggest everyone read Jimmy Robinson's books about trap shooting to try and understand our history. No Glory in shooting fish in a barrel, and to good shooters that is what today's target settings are. Brad

 

The glory in amateur sports should be about winning Olympic gold. The Olympics are the highest attainment in all of amateur sport.

The glory in NASCAR is winning races and big purses.

America isn't what it was in the 50's. Many people today don't gamble or associate with gamblers. A family man who enters Trap and finds he's part of a gambling ring where the peer pressure is to gamble may find other pastimes to pursue.

If Trapshooters want to get paid, do it the right way, and start a professional league.

 

You know smoking we don't agree on much but this time I agree with every word you typed.

 

And the thing is, I'd turn out for a pro Trap league.

If the pro Trap events were held in Florida or Nevada, and if the shooters lived in those states, the income is free from state taxes.

 

If shooting easy targets for perceived glory was what was wanted the ATA wouldn't be having the troubles they do today. Registered trap shooting is dying. It won't matter if Sparta closes or stays open, membership is the name of the game, Money shooters shot in the rain the wind and any weather. Today's targets only shooters stay in the club house when the weather is bad, just look at last years GAH for instance. Look how many shooters paid but bailed out when the weather turned, real dedication there.

Once again read trap shooting history. Can anyone honestly say that what the ATA is doing is working? No competition, No glory. Sad that the best anyone can hope for is that the state of ATA trap doesn't get worse, just hopping to hand on.

Now I honestly don't think that there are enough money shooters left to save registered shooting. Money shooting was a culture, a way of life for trap shooters until about the late 90's. Dumbing down the targets, the trophies, the competition has effectively killed money shooters off, and no new blood has replaced them.

Just trying out my new computer today, the old one went belly up. Brad

 

Seriously, if you're a shooter who's been around awhile you remember the money and the competition even at the local clubs. These shoots were not the rich they were the every day blue collar workers. They worked hard all week and couldn't wait to compete on the weekend. Some never got out of B or C class but they competed every chance they had. A shooter might go all summer and only win one buckle but he was damn proud of that buckle. Today there's no feeling of competition among most shooters instead they attend shoots for the social aspect. We're to eat, let's skip the singles and go to a movie tomorrow and etc. Everyone seems to want easy targets but when you visit a sporting clays event all the talk is about making the targets harder. It seems the harder the course the more they like the challenge. There's no shame among them for shooting an 83 on a tough course. Trap really lost its competitive edge and its reflected in the dwindling attendance. It's been awhile since a handicap champion won with a 94 but it used to happen often.

 

smoking357, said:

"America isn't what it was in the 50's. Many people today don't gamble or associate with gamblers."

Have not ever been in a casino have you? As to the 50's vs now, you have it backwards. In the 50's people went to church, couples on TV had separate beds, no curse words on TV, etc.


As to the decrease in our numbers, I think it is more of a finance matter. A lot of things have changed in 15 years, more laws, more spending, more increased costs in living and entertainment, fewer jobs and greater tax burdens.

It is not supposed to be a gamble, it is a competition, people pitting their skills against each other,

 

It's always been a competition but a lot of shooters felt the competition was better when they could bet a couple of bucks on themselves and be rewarded for a good performance. It's not really much of a competition today unless you're looking at the big dogs. Today's shooters want to shoot well by I don't think they put the effort in that past shooters did. Today everyone seems to want to impress their neighboring RV owners with their new K gun or P gun but you never see them really working to get better like some of the old guys pounding away on the practice range with their trusty model 12. Which by the way is a great pointing gun. Yeah, it's supposed to be a competition and it is just not for as many shooters as it used to be.

 

Well, let's ban the use of K, P, L, A, CG, K and S guns, restrict use to Model 12 and 870's and let's see what happens. I don't have a problem with RV's because people were using those in the 70's.

It's all John Browning's fault when this started. All there was, was SXS and along comes John with his Super Imposed.

 

What about sx1?

 

Sure! And muzzleload. Plenty of powder, cause you can make it in your garage.

 

Broke a 99/100 in this year's first ATA event two weeks ago and another 99/100 in leagues last week with my SX-1. You're fooling yourself if you think you need anything else to break targets.

Sure, people no longer gamble. Where'd this boy come from?

 

Pay the $20.00 annual dues fee.

That gives you as much right as anyone to say anything you want about sparta.

I don't care if you shot ZERO registered targets or 10,000.

You paid the dues, you speak your mind.

Flyersarebest

 

Good post Ollie, Brad and I had a nice talk about the sx1 and the beretta 302.

 

AZCO,

Was it a mental health issue that made you miss the CO. state shoot? Inquiring mind would like to know. Roger C.

 

Roger,

Why don't you grow up?

Do'h, forgot, you can't

If you really want to know, I am making progress and will be seeing my doctor this Friday, but you go right ahead and be your petty little self.

Next time I miss my State, instead of using the real reason for not attending, I will the very lame excuse so many of you use, being as it is too far, poor location and do not throw wide enough angles. Would that be excusable, since so many other losers use that excuse?

 

AZCO
Previously on the other thread at another place you said it was too far. You had an outdoor sporting goods business. Yes......I know. You are a troll at best.

Gipson has things going in a fantastic direction. You can shoot there again next year.

 

Maybe Gipson is talking about 2 subjects, Gun Sales he and his wife have at the Grand, and the Lead Mining Business where he mines the lead,+ Receiving over $100,000 in pay from the ATA, Is this legal? he is getting 3 paychecks at the whim of the ATA, I guess it is going in a fantastic direction(HIS) there could be a legal issue here!!!

Gary Bryant.................Dr.longshot

 

Langer,

I never once posted I had an outdoor sporting goods business. No doubt you are off your meds or drunk again. You are definitely confusing me with one of the liars you associate with in Bannaville.


Where you clowns come up with stuff is beyond me, of course the simple way to prove what you are saying is to point out the post you imagined you saw while in your stupor.

 

The ATA pays his wife to have a gun business?

Last I knew he pays the ATA a percent of the lead mining monies he makes.

Just what is his salary, do you know for sure or just throwing out numbers?

 

Someone said Gipson gets $116.000 for being the talking head of the ATA ... I remember seeing it someplace ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Total compensation: $136,432

Here's a link to the ATA's 2014 Form 990.

http://www.filedropper.com/ata2014990

$411,826 in executive compensation.

$544,797 in other salaries and wages.

$4,297,314 in total revenue.

 

This stuff is funnier than a skit on Saturday Night Live. Some have missed their calling as fiction writers.

 

AZCO
You don't even like your state. Is that the other reason you boycott your state shoots?

 

AZCO
You said that right? You also implied the state shoot is too far a drive for you. Or am I wrong?

I don't post much just hate trolls that fib too much. Can give you dates of your silly trollish posts. Secret Code..... arbrkercik

 

Azco, I hate so think that I was spot about why you miss your state shoot. The more you post on here the more you confirm you lack of rational thinking. The scary thing to think about is, they let people like you vote and procreate. Is there hope for the human race under those conditions? Scary isn't it. Roger C.