No Target Requirements?

What would be so bad if there were no target requirements?

 

There's some meat there for the little clubs but not much anymore. Actually, it means little because D shooters are shooting AA scores to win. So, it makes more sense to put everyone in class AA or A and forget meeting target requirements.

 

IMO...I don't think target requirements should be a thing.

 

So why is it always that shooters in the lower classifications are out shooting the Higher classifications

 

Target management skills.

 

I see why there are target requirements but I question how effective they are at combating sandbaggers.

Irregardless if there are sandbaggers or not, the guys that are going to post 99s and 100s over and over at singles are going to do so. If you can't break a 99+ at singles your not really competitive. Doubles is a little different but still, I think it's fair to say at a big shoot regardless of class/category you need to be able to break a 96+.

Most of the time it seems long yardage handicap wins the majority of handicap events.

Imo target requirements gives us mediocre shooters a false sense of hope that we can be competitive by being in lower classes than the big dogs. Look at the scores D, C and B class shooters post at the state shoot. If you don't have the ability to run 100 straight, yourre really there to have fun and donate lead.
(Speaking from someone who doesn't have the ability to run 100 straight)

 

You will always have people try to work the system,

 

Just shoot penalty Class and Yardage problem solved.
The difference from 1 class to another is 1 target.
The difference from short yardage to long is wind.

 

Since all the top shooters are shooting 98,99,100 then it's time to make the 3 hole target a requirement.

 

While we're at it ban release triggers, voice systems, adjustable combs/impacts and high priced guns. All of these contributed to higher scores.

 

1 oz max at 1145fps max will even the field.

 

In my opinion there is a lot of the D-B-C shooter are in those class's because they are willing to shoot in all conditions -- snow rain and wind -- When I have seen AA shoots pass on a windy day.

 

I never saw Frank Little duck a shoot.

 

some people earn their class -- others will do anything to get there.

 

And to protect it.

 

And I never saw him shoot a duck. And why would anyone duck a shoot that was given free illlegal Remingtons? And FYI….we one of his shooting pals on record confirming that.

 

I heard from a friend of a friends ex-wife's sister's boyfriend once removed who knew Frank quite well stated that the shells they stole from Franks garage exceeded 1,400 fps over his $79 chronograph. They even used a full choke just like Frank's for the testing.

 

Frank’s All American Shooting partner got the same shells. Franks average went up 2 points. The Frank Little man crush is noted. Lol

As to the topic…target requirements aren’t a part of live bird events.

 

So you're saying Frank's average went up because of illegal shells and not because voice systems and 2-hole targets became the norm? And that $79 Chrony Chronograph never measured leading pellets instead shot mass. Heck, I remember one of those so called expert chronographers measured my 17 gr Red Dot loads at 1,265 with an 1 1/8 oz shot. My mommy once told me the moon was made of green cheese and I was young and dumb enough to believe her. BTW, who shoots live birds anymore?
.

 

I would if I could afford it .

 

Dawg

You admitted to participating in systemic cheating. Your cred left with the easy targets you threw.

 

Sure, and you shot 'em and never complained. Still shooting 'em and still not complaining or do you even shoot anymore?

 

Welcome aboard Mr. Ott. Since you knew Frank Little more than just a bit would you call him a cheater?

 

You've known me for40 years and you call me mister ? I have never heard anyone call him a cheater . Andy

 

Got it Otto Schnitzel.

 

That requirement might lower everyone's scores a little, but it won't bring everyone's scores into parity. The top shooters will still consistently outscore the not-top shooters.
So, yes, it could drop scores, but it won't even the field. In fact, it will drop the 80-90 scores more than it will the 90-100 scores; resulting in higher disparity.
There will always be shooters who are better than the rest, no matter what kind of targets are thrown or what loads are required.
All that provided I understand your post correctly. I think the subject is how class D, C, etc. shooters post scores that should be posted ONLY by AA and A shooters.

 

Like the Dawg says "target management" .

 

Shot with a guy that got 24,24,24,23. D Class 19 yd. shooter. 96 would have got him a yard. 95 won the class with no yardage punch.

 

99PLUS :
There are no classes in Handicap events.
Ron Burdick

 

Short-mid-long are not classes?

 

D Class singles, 19 yd.HC forgot the comma.

 

Smithy, Any one that shot the Grand. was shooting pumped up shells. Were they all cheaters? If you bought shells to take home from the Grand, you were shooting pumped up shells anywhere you shot. I'm talking about 1985 to 200--. When the ATA went from selling you your shells with your entry fee and allowed the use of reloads it back off. Roger C.

 

If everyone shot the same shells at the Grand how could they be cheating?

 

Smithy got his ass handed to him so many times by the good shooters in his mind they had to be cheating. Pumped up shells still had to be pointed in the right place, being a dedicated and skilled shooter was the answer. As for the thief, he is the lowest of the low, AND YOU ARE RIGHT WITH HIM. Anyone that knows you or him should not trust you two in the shit house with a muzzle on. THE MOST HATTED BEING ON EARTH ARE THIEVES AND LIARS. Roger C.

 

Please list the GAH Championships Frank had when everyone shot the same shells.

The ball bustin Green Petes we’re not available at the grand. They were delivered to specific addresses.

Now put your teeth in and give us the list of GAH Championships Frank had when we all had the same shells.

 

Smithy, I shot many targets with Frank. With Phil Shirk, Tom Mondal, JIM Walker, Ramo Lupi on the squad. Do you think these 4 guys would have let one another shot hopped up shells? You are delusional. How many events did your win with you stolden shells? You are just trying to get your day in the sun by trying to ruin a mans good name when he can no longer protect himself. You are one of the lowest of the lowes. Roger C.

 

Refer back to post #19. No further comment needed.

 

Hmmmm….so you guys make a dumb ass remark that there couldn’t have been cheating at the grand since we all had the same shells. But Frank didn’t have the hot Petes sent to him. And he never had a GAH win?

So who was the All American member here that first blew the whistle on the hot Remington shells? One of his shooting pals?

 

ebsurveyor - Feb 21 2018 on Americantrapshooter.com

Can you say AMMO? Frank always shot Remington and before 1987 their ammo sucked. I don't remember any other big guns, back then, that shot Remington. In 1987 Remington started sending some good ammo to Frank. His average jumped that year & stayed up. The last six full years Frank shot his handicap average was about 3% higher than it had been, with one 100 straight. Frank and I discussed, several times, how the NEW Remington ammo had changed handicap shooting. For those same BBC six years Frank's average was 0.8% higher than Leo's & Kay's. Considering that Frank shot lots of targets in the Eastern Zone I would say he did OK. My guess is he would have done very well with the easier targets & voice releases.

https://www.americantrapshooter.com...d-delegates-see-list-about-hard-targets.4638/

 

Again From member ebsurveyor:

I saved my last box of those green "shipped to the house" shells. After two moves in the past 15 years they got lost. IMO, the good stuff couldn't be bought anywhere. If you wanted it for the Grand you had to bring it from home.

 

Follow up at the source.

https://www.americantrapshooter.com...d-delegates-see-list-about-hard-targets.4638/

 

I shot those green Remington shells too and in all honesty they really sucked. The fact that Frank shot those and broke all those 99+ averages is a testament to his tremendous ability.no matter what Butch believes.

 

And there you have it! Ollie claims to have been a top All American. So good then that Remington was giving this guy free hot ammo. Lie much?

 

And Morgan Fairchild is my wife! Yeah. That’s the ticket.

 

If she was I'm sure Frank found her at least once.

 

Nah, I was never as good as Frank and neither were you.

 

I wasn’t as good as Frank either. So they didn’t send me shells. Why would they send shells to you? Curious. I didn’t know there was such a program.

 

You didn't know Amerigo very well.

 

oleolliedawg:
Wouldn’t it be great if you could prove the crap that you put out.

Ron Burdick

 

Explain proof! You're old enough to know what went on and if you don't then you must have slept through class. That said, I knew all the individuals mentioned quite well and when someone who wasn't good enough to carry Frank's shellbag posts nonsense I'm quite capable of a response.

 

All shell mfgr's had A PROGRAM OF FREE SHELLS TO THEIR FAVORITE SHOOTERS. That said I was a distributor of Remington ammo, targets and made and distributed their trap and skeet machines. The only shells I was aware of that were pumped, were those made for the grand. Any left overs were sold either as regular ammo or at the end of the grand. We are never going to get Smithy to shut up with his rant about frank so lets all put him on ignore. Roger C.