Cardinal Classic down....

Looks like the Grand was down about 8-9% from 2019, but a shoot only days later in ohio is down about 20%

What gives? Where are all the OhIo ShOoTeRs?

You report. I decide.

 

No shells and probably spent more money than they anticipated at the Grand

 

No Shells and no Canadians.

 

Wayne Botts,
If you were a trap shooter you would know the answer to your stupid question..

Ron Burdick

 

I had to read it twice to make sure you actually wrote that. What GIVES? How about this?

The people in charge of that shoot they had in ILLnews decided to GIVE anyone that wanted 5 flats of shells the opportunity to do so, TWICE!!!!!

Ya think just maybe that shooters that couldn’t find any ammo locally were hoping they could buy it at the CC?

You said that shoot was down 8-9%? The shoot that is SUPPOSED to be the premier shoot of the year.

And you want to compare that to a shoot at the CC? Just another event they hold there. Not a state shoot, or a Zone shoot, or any kind of friggin “satellite” grand, just a nice shoot to end the year.

I’ll do you one better so that shoot at that place really looks good on paper. You might have to read it twice to understand but here goes.

My club used to throw registered targets 10-12 times a year. A 500 marathon, the rotating summer league with 6 clubs involved, a special 3 day shoot over the Memorial Day weekend and a few thrown in just so the guys could get targets for the “grand”

THEY DON’T THROW ANY NOW. And they stopped long before the crapdemic or a shell shortage.

Why you ask yourself? Because people didn’t need any targets for the requirement to shoot the “grand” since they HAD NO PLANS TO GO THERE.

Now multiply that by a dozen or more clubs here in SWPA and maybe, just maybe, you will see why Ron’s reply to your post is perfect.

The good news? I’m going to recommend that your post gets put on the list for “the dumbest post of the year”

Who knows, maybe someone will post something telling us the “grand” has been a great success over the last 16 years and they will have honor of taking that title.

Good luck, hope you win

 

Flyer's Is it just me or do you miss N1H1?

 

Every day !

 

The company of GamaLeils decided to sell what they had at the shell house with a 5 case to whoever was attending the Grand. Makes sense to me. Allow shooters from all across the country to buy shells they need for the rest of the year or to have for the upcoming year. It’ll save costs on shipping the shells back to the company and it’ll bring in some more income.. they don’t vendor shells at the Cardinal Center, I don’t know if they ever have but in the years I’ve been here they haven’t. So why blame a company that doesn’t even vend here for the low entree #’s that the CC is facing. Maybe it’s due to the CC not caring about the shooters, not maintaining the grounds or the curtain which has been enemy #1 since it went up. There are many reasons that the CC is down this week, but blaming the Grand for selling shells to anyone who attended is a terrible excuse. Yes there’s a shell shortage, but you can find them if you look hard enough. I know many people who will stop coming to the CC unless it’s the state shoot. They just don’t like it here anymore.

 

OK I will bite....

You said---it's due to the CC not caring about the shooters.

And "not maintaining the grounds." And the "curtain is enemy #1."

Please keep posting subjr.

Explain what is wrong with the grounds.

 

Just spent 5 days shooting their,the place looked fine to me!

 

I was there on Thursday- place looked great, bathrooms were clean & the grounds were in great shape. Mike

 

I was there Thursday and the grounds looked great.
As far as the CC not caring for the shooters, nothing could be farther from the truth.
The CC has bent over backwards to provide a first class facility.

Possibly subjr might be happier with the game of Golf.

Regards……Gerald

 

Were the pot holes filled? Did the curtains have additions to the top and bottom where needed? Did the target setters learn how to set targets? (especially doubles)

 

The targets were some of the best iv shot all season!

 

I love shooting at the Cardinal, there is no place I shoot at that has better management, scorers, or office personnel. I like the curtain but could care less if it's there or not. The potholes are always there and need attention but I could care less about that. Target setting, in my opinion, is the only issue I have with the Cardinal. I think all targets need to be in the middle of the margin the ATA gives for height, around 9 to 9 1/2 feet high at 30 ft from center of house. The Cardinal does need to put them in the air, not on the ground. I always enjoy the Cardinal shoots and will continue to shoot there. The management definitely needs to listen to shooters on target setting or I fear it will lose shooters. I am already looking forward to the next time I can shoot at the Cardinal, regardless of target setting, the people and facility make up for it. Great place in my opinion.

 

NO the doubles are awful and 5 of my buddies quit going this year over target settings

 

I shot the entire Classic. I watched the traps being reset after doubles. Each time the height was checked via a properly positioned post and speed was checked with the radar gun. WHAT ELSE DO YOU WANT?????? The scorers and loaders did an amazing job, and every worker I came in contact with was pleasant. The potholes are no better or worse than they've been for the last 10 years, so drive slower or drive around them. Yes, the shot curtain is "different". But you must admit, it DOES equalize the background variations between traps. I've also been a critic in the past of the lack of a lower panel on some of the traps, but noticed that Cardinal has allowed the brush to grow up and "fill in" the bottom. I had no distractions under the curtain when shooting for the week....a first for me at Cardinal.

 

I don’t know maybe it’s me, but I rather not have a pot hole filled road entering and exiting the facility. All the open water in front of campers making it a muddy mess when it rains. The East side doesn’t drain well for the campers or just the grass itself. The targets this week have been the best ever since the curtain went up, usually they set them low and fast to keep them in the curtain. I’ve been to the shower house a few times and see big cobwebs.
And when I say they don’t care about the shooters, it’s more of they run people off of the grounds. I have many friends that will not come back due to the Easy things that should be fixed that just aren’t cared about.
Edit: also if you ever decide to camp be prepared. Even if you pay for a whole year they may give your spot up if you don’t show up. I saw this happen this week where a couple who paid for the same spot they’ve had didn’t show and the CC decided to sell it out. If you ask for a certain spot that you’d like to have that’s open, they say they’ll give it you and when you arrive someone will be parked in that spot. The camping office needs to improve their customer service department.

 

We were there all week. The target setting couldn't have been too bad as Marshall broke another 100 straight from the 27 and there was an abundance of 99's in doubles. If you can't shoot good there it's not because of a consistent background. More bunkers and skeet fields were added for the kids-I guess that shows they care about shooters. Practice fields were staffed by a few real nice people. The pond has some big catfish if fishing is your bag. No reloading components or ammo is not the fault of Cardinal Center but Biden voters should look in the mirror before pointing fingers. My only complaint is maybe the bathrooms needed some touchup at least once during the day. I talked to some locals who went there for the first time and they loved it.

 

You can tell the CC "Doesn't care about the shooters" .

All you have to do is remember when the state of ILLnews screwed up and the SCTP wanted to come to the Cardinal Center Jack Fishburn told them NO, NO WAY. There was no way he was going to build all the fields they needed. No way he was going to add all the space necessary to accommodate that many shooters. No way he was going to SPEND HIS OWN MONEY to make it a place they could come. Let alone give them a contract so they didn't have to worry about where they could shoot, FOR THE NEXT 10 YEARS. For an owner of a facility to do all that would be something out of this world. . No one would ever think about doing that.

Oh, wait, he DID DO ALL OF THAT.

RIP Jack, the kids, even the sub jr.'s ,will remember all the great things you did for them. Well, LOL, most of them anyway.

I think wayne bots just might have his first contender.

 

I went to R.J. Stuart and looked at some of the scores. One shooter must have liked the facility. I don't know his class or yardage but if he was on the 27 the scores weren't too bad

Wed. SNG.......100
Wed. HCP........94
Wed. DBL........97

Thurs. HCP......95
Thurs. SNG.....100
Thurs. HCP......93

Fri. SNG..........99.
Fri.HCP............95
Fri. DBL...........97

Sat. DBL.........95
Sat. HCP.........97

From these scores I would think he thought the place was great. I suppose he could blame the curtain or settings for those 97's in doubles or that 99 in singles or that he missed 3 in the last caps event. Damn settings and that curtain, only 299 X 300 on the singles.

I remember an article written by one of the Big Dogs years ago where he said (paraphrase)

Never blame yourself. Blame anything but yourself. That way you won't put any doubt in your mind and you won't be worrying about it the next event. I guess the above shooter must be doing just that.

 

Maybe I was camped next to subjr1, or maybe there was more than one very large mud hole in the camping area. I drove my golf cart to Legacy restaurant one night and the pot holes about jar the fillings out of your teeth. The pot holes were particularly bad near banks 1-3.

 

Pot holes serve the same purpose as Speed Bumps, slow down so you do not jar your teeth ... Once you are there, what's the hurry ..?
I talked to a friend from Illinois who finally made the trip to Cardinal Center, said it was refreshing and an enjoyable time, that he and a few others will be back ... He seemed to be very impressed with the facility, staff, and amenities , didn't mention anything about ammo being as he usually brings his own .... I have Cardinal on my "Bucket List", once past all this medical crap I will be heading that way ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Ditto on the medical crap, hope to see you there.

 

You better be careful saying anything bad about the Cardinal Center here. It's perfect in every way, didn't you know?

It's not like you've been an All-American team captain, shoot at all the biggest trap clubs in the country, and can tell a good club from a bad club.

There are almost certainly people on here who know much more than you considering they haven't shot a registered target in your lifetime.

 

Mosquitos need to eat too! Pot-holes-if you don't live in PA you don't know much about pot-holes.

 

My sub-jr. son shot doubles on banks 10, 4 and 1 and entered his most consistent good scores ever-even won his class on Sunday. That said, they were some of the best set targets I've ever seen at Cardinal Center. You people who complain if one trap is slightly different than the previous one should simply learn how to shoot better. I wonder if you'd complain about the 50 yd. doubles we shot when I started shooting Trap.

 

The targets were way better than the past, but hardly no wind.

The thing that really burnt my azz. I watched the 3 stooges that work there left an All American to shoot his last 50 singles buy himself. They told him and his parents they had a trap that all 3 of them had to go fix. So I look at this kid shooting by himself and look up to the practice traps, who is there shooting? The 3 stooges. Shame on you lying POS, you know who you are. You 3 owe that at least the kid apology for leaving him and LYING. You 3 should have been DQed but suck anyway....lol. I did go to management, nothing here to see.........

 

We drove in on the access road Thursday afternoon and I noticed a pot hole in the asphalt about 12” in diameter. No big deal, BUT when we came back the next morning it was repaired.

 

The steel-sprung PATs worked very well thanks to Tom Neal. The targets were great. Been lots of places this year that weren’t able to throw targets anywhere near that good; and consistently.

Flame away…
Jon Reitz

 

Great shooting by your son, but bank 3 friday the left birds were 5-10 ft higher then the right bird. The majority of people that go there know the doubles are a mess and will admit it. They also know no one seems to care. I go because I like the place it is what it is

 

You can say whatever you want about the Cardinal Center on this site. Even if it is stupid.

Looks like the SCTP people thought it was perfect for their needs. How long is that contract?

 

Left target 5 to 10 ft higher? You do do know that's impossible don't you? I'd call that a broken trap and call for a new one!

 

How many targets have you shot at the CC?

 

None this year.

And that is supposed to show what? That because you have, your post isn’t stupid?

Some kid, I don’t care if it’s the son of God, takes a swipe at the CC because he thinks the place is “scaring people away”. I think he should go around and thank all the people working there for making it possible for him to shoot anything there.

BTW, just because someone can break targets doesn’t make them an expert on how a place should be built or managed. Maybe when he grows up he will understand that.

 

Look dude it happened maybe they should service there machines better. 10 FT might be a stretch but it was considerably higher with no wind.Whats really odd was a guy on my squad Sunday was talking about it also and I said you must shot bank 3 and started laughing. Its obvious you have all the answers. Im not from Ohio or Illinois and could care less if you wanna defend the place tooth and nail. I will still shoot over there as I said but people are not coming over this and we need all the shooters we can to stick together. Its not us versus them. We all have the same goal to shoot targets.

 

If I was presented a Doubles target 10 ft. different I wouldn't have shot 'em That's certainly both illegal and impossible. I don't care how you service a machine I've never been able to achieve the impossible parameters you've described. Now tell all of us how much time you spent working on traps achieving the impossible. Different-maybe-10 ft-never!

 

I told you might be a stretch but they were considerably higher. Can you not read in your blind defense. Im also very familiar with pat traps.

 

We are lucky to have such a nice place to shoot ,with all the little clubs that have been closing lately.
I guess all the whiners must be Biden lovers we all know he wants no gun clubs!!!

 

That’s a two-minute fix on a PAT trap.

 

if you read it right, I was taking a shot at the way the club has been managed and how it’s run. The men and women behind the counter working the CC were nothing but helpful as always. Same goes to the directors that work it for the state shoot.
But since I’ve been to hundreds of gun clubs around the country. I can say the CC for all the money that was invested to make it happen, has not been kept in the best of shape compared to clubs with 1/4 of funding. What kind of impression are you making of when they enter they have to avoid potholes, then they get to their camping spot to find half of it is under water… they go to the office where they say you can’t be moved even when there are almost 100 other open spots. Make it welcoming to shooters as soon as they get into the club. Maybe when you grow up you can shoot some targets at the CC and then you’ll see the problems from a shooters perspective. I hope Ohio keeps the Cardinal center I really do. But I find it super hilarious that people still want the Grand there. The roads not even paved. Imagine what would happen. Parking, camping, not enough traps. The lists go on and on. That’s what I find the funniest.

 

To Subjr 1 The SCTP shoot at the CC this year was the World's Largest Trap Shoot, Skeet Shoot, and Sporting Clays Shoot. Also the hand gun shoot and international skeet and trap shoot's were large but I don't know how to compare them to others in the world.

The CC could run the Sparta Grand very easy on the traps they have. Subjr 1 I find it hard to believe you when you say have been to hundreds of clubs. If you check my lifetime registered numbers you will see how many ATA targets I shot in about 30 years of active shooting. Plus I worked for Beretta for 19 years. With only 52 weeks in a year and going to the same shoots year after year I estimate that I shot maybe 150 different clubs in 38 states and 4 Canadian Providences in those years, not all ATA by the way a lot of little 1 and 2 trap clubs are on the list to.

Why don't you give us a list of those hundreds of clubs to show the readers here some of your credibility so they will understand you have some idea about what you are talking about. I understand you said you've been to them so mention them too but give us your ATA shooting history, that will show them.

 

Jr

The largest shoot this year was at the CC.

The SCTP dumped your home grounds.

Hundreds of shoots huh? I enjoy your posts.

 

"Hundreds of trap clubs visited" and I'm only a Sub Jr-wow are you remarkable. I've been shooting since 1963, located in an area where there's a gun club in every town and I'm still trying to catch up on your awesome numbers. BTW, if the Grand was held in Marengo you can bet the attendance would be substantially higher.

 

Crazy numbers…

The number of shooters from Ohio at the CC dwarfs the number of Illinois shooters that attend the grand. Do Illinois shooters like Sparta? Maybe not so much.

 

Last Thursday was the 1st time @ The Cardinal Center. I was impressed as it was clean and well maintained (and I do not shoot ATA trap). I shoot sporting , skeet and doubles trap. I watched the doubles targets and they seamed to be spot on. (no wind probably helped). I toured the sporting clays and new skeet fields that were still under construction. I also drove by the camping area. What a beautiful place to shoot any clay target event. I did not tour the rifle or pistol area. I really don't know what potholes that you are complaining about but I live in NY and I see them everyday- typical for the northeast climate. I look forward to future sporting clay and skeet events. This is a shooters paradise. Shooters should be very happy someone invested millions in first class shooting facility. Where can you go & shoot trap skeet, sporting, rifle and pistol, relax and go swimming in a modern new facility? This place is awesome. Mike

 

you really think that the CC could handle the full Grand with the 12 banks they have. That is the most blind statement I’ve seen on this forum. Saturday of Prelim week there was 3752 entrees split among 3 events. How in the hell would the Cardinal Center even come close to getting everyone done before it gets dark. They have less than half the banks as the WRSC. The CC has so many traps that all the kids shooting singles at the SCTP shoot have different rotations during the week to get them all in. With just over 2300 singles shooters how do you expect the CC to handle that in a day??
I can say I worded the “hundreds” of clubs wrong. It was to get a point across that the CC isn’t as maintained as some of the smaller clubs I go to shoot at. For example the IL state shoot even though it has a gravel road there are no potholes, or maybe the Wisconsin state shoot where once again no potholes. And these two clubs has far less budget of the CC. Who knows now with the passing of Jack where the CC stands but I know it won’t be very good until the management gets it figured out.
Some ATA history… I signed up in 2011 and starred shooting small ATA shoots. In 2015 I started to chase AA points around the Midwest. I have done that every since while adding clubs around the country. This year I registered just over 16,000 targets while being on the road since late May. I wasn’t on the road for 4 days because I had to go home to restock on supplies for the camper and to see my family. I’ve been on the Mens AA team for the last 3 years now. So there is some history about me

 

Ah you’re sooo right. The CC brings in wayyy more shooters than the Grand does. Let’s see… the Ohio state shoot which is the busiest shoot for the CC in ATA brought just less than 700 shooters for the championship handicap this year. Let’s see about the Grand. Oh says here 1840. Something must be wrong in the system… because that’s more than the CC. You better go check into it if there’s a glitch in the system!

 

All you bashing on Subjr 1, obviously do NOT know who he is. That is the funny thing. If you want to know some of the bullshit that goes on there read my post above.

 

Also you could add archery, a indoor swimming pool and a pond for the to fish in.

Dave Berlet

 

BTW, since you admitted you chased All-American points you might want to inform us how many of those hundreds of mid-West clubs you visited offered All-American points. Let's just say 4 months of chasing points would equal 16 different clubs. Good luck with finding those 16 and of course you never visited any twice. I may not be a math major but I ain't stupid!

 

I don’t know if you know how calendars work though. Just because I’m at a location not at home doesn’t mean I’m shooting. I was at the Grand a week early to help vendors. But here’s a list of the ones I remember off the top of my head.
Mo state, Middletown oh, GLG, Us open, Kansas, IL state, Oh state, KY state, IN state, WI state, IA state, Grand for two whole weeks, CC that’s 13 different shoots. 11 different clubs

 

I know exactly who he is. Big friggin deal. My picture is in Trap&Field for winning a trophy at the GRAND AMERICAN in Vandalia. Prelim Caps, 3,250 shooters one 98, six of us with 97, I got 3rd after a shoot off. So what. gipson would give his left nut to get that many in the "grand" let alone the prelim.

Tell me, how much money do these "all Ameicans" get for CHASEing these points? I mean, if they make the "team" how much MONEY does each of them get?

And what I find hilarious is that him, and guys like you, continually compare your "grand" (what a joke of a shoot) to a shoot the CC holds. Why not compare it to a 4 trap club that throws twice a year? The ILLnews "grand" would really look good then.

Your "grand"numbers are still PATHETIC and this is supposed to be the premier shoot of the season. You would think they could draw better than they have. And forget about using the crapdemic as an excuse for the last two years. The numbers have always been a joke. Long before the covid scare came around.

If that place in ILLnews is so great,

WHY DIDN'T THEY EVER GET THE NUMBERS WINSTON SAID THEY WOULD?

You know, all those shooters from ILLnews and around it would make up for any loss of OH or PA shooters?

Do we know who we are talking about? Do you know that there are people on here that could have SUBjr1 carry there shell bag?

 

13 is a far cry from hundreds. Keep talking. Of course, I forgot, you never visited the same one twice.

 

Never said I was a big deal, just wanted to point out what you got wrong and wanted to say that even though the CC is a nice place. It’s not the cats ass that everyone on this website treats it as. Then I wanted to share experiences that I and many others have faced while being at the CC
Everyone is human but it appears some of the people on this forum think they’re above just because of their age and they know everything. Everyone makes mistakes just some cant own up to it

 

Like I said previously “hundreds” was an exaggeration to show that smaller clubs care more about maintaining their clubs than the CC does. I also listed examples in the previous post about what I’m talking about

 

The SCTP thought is was the cats ass. That is why they signed a 10 YEAR contract to go there.

 

Jack did a lot for the shooting community. I don’t think you get what I’m saying. ITS A GOOD PLACE TO SHOOT ITS NOT MAINTAINED. It’s also not able to hold the Grand.
Nobody asked about your 3rd place finish so “so what”. All American shooters don’t get anything but pride and a hat. I don’t make money shooting but I have fun and make great friends from
Across the globe. It’s not “my” grand. It’s everyone’s. Just because you cannot justify going there doesn’t make it any less special. As I’ve previously said Sparta is a good place to shoot in the wrong spot. I hope you can see that you’re arguing for the wrong cause and what I’ve said holds value. Other than that your preaches don’t mean anything. Ever since the Grand moved to Sparta attendance has been low, Vandalia was awesome so I’m told. GET OVER IT. It’s at Sparta. Who cares where it’s at. Location doesn’t matter at least the shoot can be continued.

 

Thanks for proving my point. You compare the 'grand" in ILLnews. to a state shoot the Cardinal hosts. Why not make yourself really feel good and pick a state shoot that is the smallest in the country. You compare what is supposed to be the BIGGEST EVENT in the country to a STATE shoot.

1840? REALLY? You think 1840 in the Main Event is something special? I'll bet you live in ILLnews right?
Why not go after all the shooters from around ILLnews , all the ones that were supposed to make up for the OH and PA shooters that they knew wouldn't travel that far, and ask them why THEY DON'T GO THERE.

Hell, one of the best years that place had was something like 2,003 shooters and I doubt that was even the true number that actually shot.

 

Guess nobody even read this. Still mad about it........FYI It's not over Change is coming

 

I know my trophy wasn't a big deal. That is why I put "so what" after it.

And unless I missed something that place in ILLnews doesn't use the entire line do they? So, yeah, the Cardinal COULD hold the Grand.

 

Yeah, I read it. Thanks for the heads up about change is coming. Get back to us when the change happens.

 

They used 24 or 26 banks for the last few days of the Grand. I didn’t really pay attention. But the Cardinal only has 12. I don’t care about your statements of what you think I’m saying. What I have said that you ignore is that OH shooters want the Grand to be at the Cardinal. It won’t happen. That’s all!!! The Grand had been in Sparta since I started shooting. But why hate on it just because it’s on the wrong piece of property, who cares where it’s at. Just go and have fun. You act as if your pride of Vandalia over reaches the fun you have of shooting. Vandalia is over so you need to get over it. Cardinal center will have state shoots, smaller shoots and the SCTP. It can handle them, but anything bigger it would struggle. They’ll need to expand, which they might not have the funding for. Who knows. Get over Sparta and go have fun at the Grand in 2022

 

All this bitching about Sparta and the CC is the same shit that is on tv. Everyone running the mouth and doing NOTHING about it. Don't care, Still don't like liars and cheaters. Caught them!!!!! The man in charge of the CC is VERY concerned about some issues going on there.

 

The Ohio State shoot in 1975 had 1600 entrees in the caps and was shot on 40 traps. The doubles that morning was shot first. The shootoffs were all in the daylight. When I was TD at the CC we ran about 2800 entrees through one day, three events, on 40 traps.

The only reason Sparta has so many events is to make up for the 3000 shooters they have lost at the Grand in the last 15 years. Less people make it imperative that they each shoot a lot more targets per person.

 

Everybody just HOLD ON a minute....I'm out of popcorn.

 

Liars and cheaters in the ATA-wow, I can't believe it. Yet, it only happens at CC. Don't ask me what I know about cheating in the game since 1972!

 

Get over Sparta and go have fun at the Grand in 2022

LMAO,,,,,,,, THAT'S the problem jr.

The "grand" is in sparta and sparta is in ILLnews.


"What I have said that you ignore is that OH shooters want the Grand to be at the Cardinal"

You wouldn't want to bet that hat they give you for traveling around to 12-15 shoots a year on that. And I don't live in OH. I hope the "grand" never leaves that place. I've said it more than once. I hope the ata stays in ILLnews forever.

Or at least until your state, (you are from ILLnews aren't you?) pulls the pin and closes the place down.

 

good luck being the Uncle Scrooge of shooting. Why not come to IL. Southern IL is a great place that accepts outsiders. The problem with the state lives within the city of Chicago. Stop hating and enjoy it. Get over yourself

 

If you are still talking about the kid that had to shoot by himself I have a few questions?

You said there were 3 of them that "lied" about leaving this "all American" shoot alone because they had to fix a trap.

1) Were these 3 shooting with this "all American" the first 50?

You said they didn't go fix a trap like they said they had to but you saw them on the practice fields

2) If these people shot the first 50 registered targets with this "all American" why would they be on the practice traps?

Something JDLR about your story. No joke, I want to know how you can shoot 50 registered targets on program fields and then, ON YOUR OWN, go shoot the other 50 on a practice trap. Maybe they didn't like the "all Americans" attitude or something and just decided to let him shoot by himself.]

3 )Did this solo 50 targets devastate this kid or what? Was he straight then fell apart?

4) Did he shoot a lousy last 50 and miss making the "team"? I guess I'm just asking you, since you are obviously bent out of shape about it, why couldn't this "all American" handle shooting two traps by himself?

5) Would you be upset to the same extent if these 3 people really did go fix a trap and leave this "all American" by himself. Either way he was alone.

Hey, maybe he told them to go take a hike because they were disrupting the harmony of the squad.

 

I'm am enjoying it. I'm enjoying seeing your "grand" being in ILLnews and the lousy numbers you draw. Can you say, QUESTIONAIRE , as in the one that told the ata bigshots NOT to go to your state.

As I said, I hope it stays there until your state figures out the place costs them too much money and boards it up.

As far as being the Uncle Scrooge?

Jr. ,if you think not going to that shoot in that place makes one a scrooge then there about TWO THOUSAND FIVE HUNDRED scrooges out there that used to shoot the big event and no longer bother with the "grand"

 

The WSRC has had 16 plus years to make its mark on trap shooting, the established number of shooters that attend will never be much more one way or the other ... The facility may be second to none but stands second to far to many clubs based on location and lacking of minimal comforts that people have gotten used to having in the general area, so nothing has changed ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Sounds like you got all the answers. Those were pretty much what I asked. Just telling what I saw. No accountability, No problem and that's only a fraction of some issues at the CC Quit bitichin' about Sparta and get ready for all the terrorist 46 is bringing here. We might not be ball smoking targets next year. All AMERICN will have a whole new meaning........PEACE OUT!!!!!!!!

 

I didn’t give any answers.

So, you really don’t have any idea WHY what you saw transpired.

OK. bitch about something but don’t know what you are bitching about.

Right, got it.

 

The Ohio State shoot at the CC doesn't get nearly the attendance that the Ohio State shoot at Vandalia got. Less than 800 at the CC in 2021 and over 2000 back in the day in Vandalia in the championship handicap. How come the Ohio shooters don't support the Cardinal Center?

 

Because the Ohio State shoot was shot on the same grounds as the Grand is one reason. Trap shooting was in its hay day back then also.

 

The largest Ohio State Handicap was in 1975 and there were 1600 shooters, never were 2000 fake news.

 

There was 873 OHIO SHOOTERS that attended the OHIO STATE SHOOT at the CC this year!!!!!! Would have been more if there was not a shell shortage.

 

The numbers are inconsequential to the point. Why do only about half the ohio shooters support the CC today vs. Vandalia 20+ years ago?

 

And, only 624 Illinois shooters attended the Grand American where shells were abundant.....................

 

Simple, because the other half are dead.

 

So why isn't the same logic applied to those constantly pining about the size of the Grand in Sparta?

 

Those passing away and getting to old to go are probably the primary reason attendance will never reach the numbers of the past,not to mention the cost involved.

 

The grand at the WSRC in Sparta has established and been accepted as not so grand, not sure anyone is pining about and really give two chits about it anymore nor would they miss it if it was gone ... There are certain people who would attend the grand if it was in the middle of no place in the middle east, must like it is now except its not in the Middle east ... Those that attended the Grand in Vandalia would be hard pressed to call the so called grand today "Grand" by the farthest reach of ones imagination ... Ironic people used to plan months, up to a year in advance to attend the Grand in Vandalia, now you seldom hear anyone mention it unless it is someone who thinks others are pining about it ... WPT ... (YAC) ...


The State owned facility (WSRC) has added to the States financial woes and burdens (deficit) over 26 million dollars in the past 16 years ... It is any body's guess how long they will let this continue before they Bull Doze the place or sit back and watch as Biden turns it into a camp ground for refugees ...

 

With the rising cost to shoot the attendance is only going to get worse instead of better, at the Grand and the CC.

 

Subjr

The SCTP told Sparta they wouldn’t shoot in Sparta for at least 10 more years. And Sparta offered free targets. Even at free that place sucks.

The person that has to get over it is you. 1700 plus shooters in the GAH. LOL

 

So if the Grand isn't 'grand', what trap shoot is? More trapshooters go to the grand than any other registered shoot in the world so there must be something pretty good about it? Lot's of people still talk about it, plan to attend it, and actually attend it.

Of course a handful of other people have spent 16 years complaining about it, wishing it's failure, and taking every opportunity to throw it under the bus....all without ever having stepped on the grounds or shooting a single target there. Seems like a poor use of time and energy to me...

 

The SCTP National shoot at the Cardinal is much larger. And it is registered shooting. More attended the SCTP shoot. Especially with all the parents.

You mentioned 16 years. That is a long decline. Was that expected?

The ATA was told not to move there. The poll sent out showed a strong mathematical probability of failure. What is surprising?

 

Jumanji……
If the ATA is about the trapshooters don’t you think the shoot should have been put where the members wanted it?

Ohio and PA have their own big shoots. Stop whining. They aren’t magically going to travel to a gun hating state. Best of luck.

 

16 years of pathetic numbers for a shoot, you know what?, I won't even count the last two years because of the crapdemic, 14 years of pathetic numbers for a place that was supposed to be heaven on earth for Trap shooters.

Now THAT seems like a poor use of time and engery.

A handful of people? Yeah right, the reason the numbers SUCKED for 14 years was because a "handful of people".

None of you "Hurrah for sparta" guys has ever answered my question, hell don't even answer my question, just address the FACT that those shooters that were supposed to make up for the difference when they moved there haven't shown up.

A poor use of time and energy?

In one of those meetings the ata was told that there would be a decline in OH and PA shooters but not to worry, the states around that place would make up for it. They moved anyway. Yeah, a true waste of time, energy, AND money. As in the dues and fees the shooters pay to the ata.

A true waste.



.

 

I'm not pining about the size at all. That would mean I was hoping that the size of that shoot would get bigger, like it was when there really was a Grand American.

I hope that shoot in that place never gets any bigger. I think that shoot has just the right number of shooters for a trap line that is 3-1/2 MILES LONG.

3-1/2 miles long and compared to the size of it, only a handful show up.

You can't make this stuff up. LOL

 

The Grand and SCTP threw almost 3.8 million targets. How many did the SCTP shoot throw? I honestly don't know.

 

If the Grand was in Ohio, two states -Ohio and PA -could almost carry the present load.

 

Because most of those dead shooters were still alive and participating before the move to Sparta-simple!

 

And if they are now dead how they getting to Sparta.

 

The dead have been voting in Chicago for years. Must be some witchcraft that attracts the dead to IL.

 

Huh?
This has nothing to do with dead people shooting in that place and the ata counting them.

Here's the deal seniors and JUNIORS. Not counting the anniversary year or the last year, there were what? 3500-3900 shooters for the GAH
Put in any number that is close, doesn't matter.

THEN, when the ata in all their wisdom moved the shoot the numbers fell to what?
I had the sheet but lost it. Someone that has it post the attendance numbers from the Vandalia Grand, (you don't have to go back to when they first shot there) and then the attendance numbers from the first year they moved to the present.

Even money there isn't a year on there that the numbers are close.

AND 2 OR 3 YEARS AFTER THE MOVE I DIDN'T READ OR HEAR ABOUT THOUSANDS OF TRAP SHOOTERS DIEING.

They quit going because they don't want to go to that place. Period!

 

The other half found better ways to spend there time and money.

 

No, the other ones were around 58 yo 14 years ago. Do the numbers-58 plus 14 equals 72-and that's being generous. Those pensions are no longer adequate to play this game for many. The WWII and Korean war vets are mostly gone. That leaves baby boomers who've got plenty of other ways to spend disposable income!

 

My personal protest for a few years gave me the time and money to build a new toy, can even take it to the shoots if I see fit ... Probably 3 Kolars and or 2 Kreighoffs sitting there ... WPT ... (YAC) ...