Illinois IDNR to vendors : Pay up soon!

Some vendors are a little hesitant to pay their new bills before Illinois says there may be a grand. That maybe doesn’t happen until May 1.

Illinois wants their money now.

Vendors were sent similar notices as seen below.



Thanks to you guys in the trenches for your work.

I report. You decide.
merlo out

 

Im actually impressed they got the notices out so timely.

 

Thats BALLS, where is Neil when you need him most ..? WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Easy decision here for the vendors. If they wait to pay what is the worst that could happen? What is the worst that could happen if they pay early? Lose another $6000. ?

 

Send it back, and tell them to STICK it where the sun never shines !

 

If I were a vendor I would probably send them an invoice for money that had been paid with out having use of the facility along with a copy of the lease agreement ... The State of Illinois has been known to pull some shady deals but screwing the vendors would be the lowest of the low in my opinion ... There has to be some recourse for the Vendors to recover and resolve the problem, not sure I would enter into any more deals with them being as there are many other places (facilities) for them tom peddle their wares ... WPT ... (YAC) ....

 

I'm sure since you have a copy of this, that the person who sent you this also has a copy of the contract that states they do not have to pay if there is not a grand in sparta as well. This is from the Q & A portion of the bid package available online.

Q: Before starting this process, is there any assurance that if the “Grand” is cancelled again that we will receive a refund?

A: In the event that the "Grand American" is not held at World Shooting and Recreation Complex (WSRC), IDNR will not collect the annual lease payments for that year the event is not held at WSRC.

 

I am not an attorney but question and answer sessions are not part of a contract. I called an attorney.

And the word cancelled is important. The grand was not cancelled last year. It was held. Not at that venue. And there is the possibility, or probability in my opinion, that Illinois says you probably can have it, or unless covid gets worse. Or they could say we aren't sure yet. In both cases the State would not be cancelling anything. It would be the ATA moving it. Not cancelling. jmho

We will see the vendors in Missouri.

 

Brad M
WTF are you from Illinois or something? I think these vendors got ripped off last year. It doesn't mean much to you. You work for the place?

The state of Illinois has had problems paying their lottery winners. And you think these vendors should trust the state. What do you think? Give Illinois the money and take them to small claims court. In what state? I am betting the contract says all disputes are to be settled by an Illinois court.

 

I don't feel a bit sorry for any vendor that gets screwed by Illinois. The members of the ATA in 2003 told the ATA's own survey that they did not want to go to a state that was anti gun. If the vendors would have listened to that same survey and said NO to Sparta the Grand would have been gone from Illinois within 5 years. But no short sighted vendors in pursuit of personal gain have made their own bed and are getting just what they deserve in my opinion.

So now we have an anti gun President, Congress, and Court system and people on here are worried about trap shooting. ATA Trap Shooting is Dying the Death it deserves. Sparta, Missouri, the Cardinal Center it's not going to matter. Twenty Five years of mismanagement has taken its toll. The only vendors that need the ATA are the trap specific ones. The big boys, ammo & guns care less. They are selling all they can make without dealing with a bunch of winey target shooters.

 

Please Brad,

It's WINO target shooters.

Just correcting your spelling

 

I kind of see it as the ol" "Screw me once shame on you, screw me twice , shame on me" type of thing but I do not find fault in the Vendors attempts to make a living ... The reputation of the grand at one time made it the place to be for shooters, vendors, and the shooting Industry in general, that all changed when the location changed and the newest greatest facility of all time could not draw a crowd and established that over the course of the past 15 plus years ... The vendors got caught up in the mess the ATA created, many moved on to other venues and facilities rather than accept the reduced attendance as being normal ... I hope for their sake they see the snow ball growing and getting out of control in Illinois, consider it a lesson learned and move on ... The vendors have been the biggest part of the draw at many of the big shoots, that will probably continue ... The grand in Illinois is not, never was, never will be what it once was and does not deserve the attention the vendors/ campers have afforded it ... The State is demanding payment and they have not committed to the shoot being there or not as of this date, what the hell kind of Happy Horse shit is that ..? Vendors get smart and move on for your own sake .... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

One of the fist things I worked on with Jack at the cardinal Center was telling him to get the Vendor Buildings built. Being that I worked (loose term) for Beretta for 20 years I realized the importance of Buildings for the Vendors. I also had the advantage of being born in Ohio and having a father who every year, even though he didn't shoot ATA, would go to the grand and walk around. The vendors was what he was most interested in and so was I.

Even after being a 25 year ATA shooter and working for Beretta one of my main highlights of each grand was walking vendor row, something I would do some of everyday for the 10 days of the grand. It was not only to renew friendships of dealers I'd see only at the grand but for me it was to get the feel of the grand. The 2 times I was at Sparta that feel was never there. Sparta was, is, just too spread out to be comfortable.

 

The lease agreement is very long. I will post some pages that might have the right information.

I assume that all the information provided was obtained legally.







Thanks to you guys / gals that get this stuff.
I report. You decide.
merlo out.

 

This is one crazy conflicting lease!

In the event that the "Grand American" is not held at the WSRC, IDNR will not collect the annual lease payments.....
Then, how can they collect the lease payments before the Grand? Non-sensical?

3.3 Termination for cause
The State may terminate this contract, in whole or in part immediately upon notice to the vendor if .......the actions of the vendor, its agents, employees or subcontractors .....could cause jeopardy to health.
Like if being open could cause the spread of a virus?

Lessee shall have the option to terminate this lease at any time if the Grand American is not held at the complex during the time of this lease.
Again, the lessee (tenant) can get out of the lease? If the Grand is not held at the WSRC during the time of the lease. No mention of getting the funds back.
If the Grand wasn't held in April. Can the tenant get out of the lease? Is the tenant bound until the end of the year?

Getting compensation is mentioned in 3.3
The vendor shall be entitled to compensation for supplies and services provided in compliance with this contract up to and including the date of termination.
Again no mention of a refund but you can ask for compensation for supplies and services.

3.4 Termination for Convenience
The State may, for its convenience and with thirty (30) days prior written notice to vendor, terminate this contract in whole or in part and without payment of any penalty or incurring any further obligation to the vendor.
It sounds like for any reason or no reason, "convenience", the state can terminate this lease. "Without payment"!

3.5 Availability of Appropriation
This contract is contingent upon and subject to the availability of funds.
Illinois can cancel this if they are out of money. I am not sure how much money you get back then either.

I am not an attorney. You cant make this stuff up. I hope for the sake of the vendors this works out.

 

Gee Brad M

Please point to the clause that shows the process of refunding.

 

I did not say refund, the questioning(aka a vendor) party asked about refund. The answer given by concessions states the following:

A: In the event that the "Grand American" is not held at World Shooting and Recreation Complex (WSRC), IDNR will not collect the annual lease payments for that year the event is not held at WSRC.

I will agree with everyone that the vendors should not have to pay until there is a confirmation that the grand will be in Sparta.

 

Can the vendors get their money back? A wise man once said a card laid is a card played.

Doesn't look like it. Groundhog Day....all over again.

See ya in Missouri.

 

If Illinois gives the ATA a: "Gee, it looks good now but we can't say for sure?" I would be gone if I were the ATA, take it ti Missouri again.
Then start looking for a new permanent site or a long term LEASE of the WSRC so they could run it their way.
No Government anywhere has ever ran anything right. To many Politicians (morons) with no idea of what the heck they are doing.
Examples: Obama had the Government take over the student loan program. That is now a disaster. Again, Obama and the Health Care. A disaster.
Finally, Pritzker and everything he does.