Is it too late for registered trapshooting?

I spoke with a major fine gun retailer recently. He said specialty trap guns only account for 20% of their inventory and that the move is towards "all around guns." He continued saying the ATA is doing little to "attract and keep" the younger shooters.

Bottom line.....the more challenging shotgun sports are growing.

 

If it was not for the little grass roots clubs all across America, Canada, and other country's the ATA would not even exist, these clubs are the promoters and life blood of the ATA and always have been ... The ATA does little to promote trapshooting and mush less retain members who have joined because of the members of the clubs that do promote and keep the ATA alive ... The ATA should promote by investing in the clubs that really do promote the sport as an added incentive for them to continue doing so rather than work against them in many ways ... I would think 20% of their inventory being Trap Guns would be about right taking into account all of the people who shoot trap and hunt , the same goes for ammunition based on over all percentages ... The members of the little local clubs are the incentive for the most part because they are the ones who bring people to the club and get them interested in shooting registered targets sooner or later after shooting on a social basis for awhile ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

I'm not sure if it's to late. Dec. 31st was the last day for vendors and campers to renew unless they moved the date again. I'm pretty sure if we ask the kool-aid drinkers we'll be assured the sign ups are going great and the interest for 2016 is through the roof. For the reality based individuals I think sign ups are off considerably and many vendors will not be renewing but I'm just one of the negative Sparta haters that had a premium spot for ten years.

 

I am now in Florida, and most are shooting Seitz, in Pa. The majority seem
To be K80, but it seems that shooters are holding on to guns already owned
And not buying new guns or even talking about new purchases now or in
The future. This is new because the biggest conversations were always
About changing guns.

The dollar still is not flowing like it was a few years back, at least
That is my observation.

Greta c

 

While sporting clays is the "big" draw at the present time... they are also having trouble holding onto members just as the ATA is. Many people jump into shooting sports only to find it's not affordable. I agree 100% that the ATA needs to work harder at getting the kids involved. Even if they do drop out, some come back later in life... and the knowledge and experience they gain while shooting helps defeat the idiot politician who try to say all guys are bad

 

Rosey's statistics on another thread show that Sporting Clays is eating the trapshooting game's lunch. They are growing.

Trapshooting membership is a fraction of what it was. We once had 5000 in the GAH. Doubt we will have 1500 this year.

The GAH is at a level that hasn't been seen since before the Korean War.

 

FlagLagarto, about sporting clays you wrote -->

Where did you get that information?

 

I'm a vendor... I make custom molded ear plugs and travel from the first of March till the end of Oct to major Trap and Sporting Clay events across the country. When your business is shooters, you talk to people at every club/event you attend. The ATA is not the only organization having trouble holding onto members.

 

FlaLagarto,

NSCA disputes your claims. As per Rosey's post

From the NSCA website (which BTW is much easier to navigate than the ATA website):
2102 membership 25,540....2014 membership 28,874

 

You are free to believe whatever you choose... I'll believe what I've been told face to face by people I know and trust.

 

Just to nit-pick... your post above says the NSCA has lost members... or perhaps I should say they have predicted losing members. That is unless they have a time machine and have traveled to 2102 to check the records.

OH, and BTW... I have had no problem navigating the ATA website... just saying

 

Fla, I will make it even clearer for you.

2012 25,540 members
2014 28,874 members

As you say you can navigate the ATA site please tell us how many more members the ATA has now than before the Sparta move. Or would you rather take some imaginary person's word?

 

Family Guy.. simple business 101 tells me that if I have 20 new members this year but next year only 5 of them renew.. then yes, my membership did grow by 5 new members. But the fact is.. I lost members. This is simple fact in every shooting sport.. trap, sporting clays.. even cowboy action. You never retain 100%.. it just don't happen. If you think otherwise then you need to get down off that Unicorn and take a look at the real world.

 

FlaLagarto

Simple business 101 said you don't move your product where your customer base cant buy it.

Bottom line is sporting clays is kicking trap's butt. We are not bringing shooters in as they have a choice between 2 products. One is borrrrring. One is challenging.

One product base was located in the heart of trapshooting. Idiots managing that game moved its flag product 10 hours west.

One game brags about expanding. 4 of 5 fine guns on the shelf are sporting clays guns.

Trap is trying to hang on to a few.....? That is your opinion. It looks like they intend to ride the horse over the cliff.

Business 101 ? It isn't rocket science.

 

You can paint any picture you choose..

 

It seems that a lot of shooters seem to be using their trap guns to
Shoot sporting and vice versa.
Maybe, it's just more economical that way.

Greta c

 

Greta
A major retailer I spoke with the other day said the all-around guns are the ones that are selling. Big sellers are those that can be used in both sports.

Cabelas has the Beretta 686 Onyx Pro Trap and Joel Etchen has a plethora of guns matching that description.

The retailers with the heavy stocked guns support the 2 hole easy target game. The younger shooters like a little more excitement. The ATA is broken. It cannot adjust.

 

ATA

2014... 28073
2015... 31231

 

If only those were active member numbers. lol

 

I agree. The ATA should rescind all annual and life members who haven't shot any targets in a two year period. That should get rid of some of the clutter on the shooter information portion of the ATA website also.

 

Leonidas,
I am and have been a Life Member of the ATA for over 40 years,there was never any limits or minimum number of targets mentioned when I signed up and paid my dues so your even making that comment is totally out of line but obviously based on a lack of knowledge ... The ATA cannot change the rules in the middle of the game without taking a chance for a major lawsuit , here again probably a lack of knowledge on your part ... The Constitution and Bill of Rights of the United States gives people the right to state their mind even though someone may not like it, its still a right that cannot be infringed on so get over it , maybe gather some knowledge of what your commenting on so you do not look so uninformed ... Now, go play with your Leggo's , read and learn ... Past practice is part of the law and accepted as such in the eyes of the courts and legal system ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

2014 ATA Membership 28,512
1994 ATA Membership 54,686


Thanks again to History Buff for his research and special thanks to Duff for showing up again to help us prove that the more challenging shooting venues are eating the ATA's lunch. Soon FlaLagarto will arrive to tell me there is some advanced course in business I missed that can explain why this is a good.

Will we hear again why I should take the word of someone he talked to on the street over the above statistics?

Thanks again to HB.

 

So,I guess my post was correct...shooters are now interchanging gun usage.
A matter of economics and common sense.

That is one reason for the drop in sales.

GRETA C

 

mission accomplished

 

Greta... it also shows the demand for a challenging game. The retailers are adapting to demand. The ATA spends it's time trying to justify a move away from its customer base as well as the $2.1 mil anchor baby that went with it.

The 32 o/u will can cover the sporting clays end and an occasional practice round of trap.

 

So, you're saying a governing body can't or hasn't changed rules since inception? Look at all the law changes in the US, that should teach you how to change laws, legally.

 

What's this "moving away from it's customer base"? Illinois is directly in the middle of +/- 17,000 ATA members.

 

Family Guy,

I cannot verify those numbers are correct. I can only verify that they were the membership totals printed in our annual average books by Trap & Field staff who obtained them annually from the ATA. I would hope the ATA kept accurate numbers but in some years those totals were given as written in the 2012 Average Book as follows :

"During the 2012 target year (Sept. 1, 2011, through Aug. 31, 2012, more than 28,00 ATA members participated in one or more of 6,000 registered tournaments contested throughout the world. In total, 59,595,618 registered clay targets were thrown by 869 gun clubs."

Something everyone should pay close attention to is the number of gun clubs throwing registered targets. I believe the ATA started providing the number of gun clubs in the Average Book in 1997. In the summary, the ATA reported a total of 1,271 clubs. In the years 2000, 2001 & 2002, the number of gun clubs was about 1400. In 2003 that number dropped to 1,057. In their 2014 report they gave the number of registered clubs as "more than 850." The alarm bells should be going off in all our heads.

Here are the Average Book pages supporting your above numbers:

Enjoy Our History!

 

Here's a couple of paragraphs from Men's Journal about the "death of golf" see if it sounds familiar to ALL of the shooting sports:

"
By any measure, participation in the game is way off, from a high of 30.6 million golfers in 2003 to 24.7 million in 2014, according to the National Golf Foundation (NGF). The long-term trends are also troubling, with the number of golfers ages 18 to 34 showing a 30 percent decline over the last 20 years. Nearly every metric — TV ratings, rounds played, golf-equipment sales, golf courses constructed — shows a drop-off. "I look forward to a time when we've got the wind at our back, but that's not what we're expecting," says Oliver "Chip" Brewer, president and CEO of Callaway. "This is a demographic challenge."

But you can't blame one man's wandering libido for the demise of an entire sport. The challenges golf faces are myriad, from millennials lacking the requisite attention span for a five-hour round, to an increasingly environmentally conscious public that's reluctant to take up a resource-intensive game played on nonnative grass requiring an almond farm's worth of water, to the recent economic crisis that curtailed discretionary spending. "Golf is an expensive, aspirational game," says Brewer, "and a lot of millennials are struggling with debt and jobs. If you don't have a job, golf doesn't really fit you very well."

 

We are enjoying the ATA big 50s....easier on us, and it seems the gun clubs are also
Thriving with higher attendance.

At least the Pa clubs are.

Again Kenny-R thank you for all your hard work and patience. XXX

Greta c

 

Greta, you've hit on a very important point historically. And it has been discussed on occasion over the past 80 years or so. The lengthy events which involves more endurance vs. the early days when tournaments consisted of 10 or 12 events often made up of a combination of 10, 15, 20 and 25 target sweepstakes. Shooters could choose to enters as many as they wished and/or could afford or have time for.

Besides trapshooting being monotonous the endurance aspect regarding an all day one event program has been given as a reason which does limit attendance numbers. Personally, I'm not opposed to the current events requiring endurance because so far, I can handle them, but the older we get, the harder it is. That leaves just practice shooting for some. I can only think how much successful gun clubs would be if they occasionally offered ten 25-target events with merchandise and/or added money.

I fully understand you enjoying those Big 50 events.

Just my 2 cents.

 

Good facts Kenny. It sucks when good facts get in the way of the official BS line from the EC. Easier targets, shorter targets, more satellite grands, more All Americans, more categories, less money, more yards off, and a move west to a brand new roomie wonderful Sparta Illinois. Even after all these great EC inspired ideas the ATA membership is in the shitter. Gun clubs that shoot registered birds are quitting. (check out the Moulton shoot on New Years day clubs are still shooting trap just not ATA)

So all I've got to say is Good going Neil, Rob, and the rest of the bozo club. Damn fine job. Damn fine job indeed. Twenty years of EC's have given the ATA just what it deserves. Brad

 

Good thread.