Harlan's grasp safe with Dave Shaeffer's suspension

Discussion in 'Trapshooting Forum - Americantrapshooter.com' started by merlo, Sep 2, 2017.

  1. P-MX10

    P-MX10 Member

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    I believe ya fully Mr. Dysinger.

    One year when I broke my first and only 200, me and Shaeffer were shooting on the same squad at the keystone open in may, at pssa. Well, of course, shaeffer broke them as well. We were the only 200's on the day, and we shot with a random squad that day.

    I saw one of them the next day, during the doubles, and he told me that the pssa officials called the other 2 squad members and himself in to the office to verify that we weren't calling targets for each other. They told them we weren't, and that was that, but I never got called and neither did shaeffer. They try so hard to throw him out, they just finally succeed.

    I say it was collusion, through and through.
     
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  2. Roger Coveleskie

    Roger Coveleskie Elite Poster Founding Member

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    MX10,

    Was it the Pa. people or the ATA that wanted him gone? My first reaction was that it was a set up, I talked to Sandy , and was not told who started the foul language. If David is OK with not shooting registered any more, fishing is a very good sport and no one cares if you win or not. Personally I would return and wax their asses every chance I got, I would be very calm and extract a lot of revenge. Win their trophies and then not pick them up, but I would be first in line to collect my money. Roger C.
     
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2018
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  3. El Paso

    El Paso Active Member

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    Why would the ATA have any reason to "get rid of" Dave?
    I think if you're taking Dave's side just because you're anti ATA, you are ignoring all the facts.
     
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  4. Flyersarebest

    Flyersarebest Moderator Founding Member

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    Post 'em, we will wait
     
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  5. wpt

    wpt Ultra Elite Poster Founding Member

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    Sounds like one of those you can only be a racist if your white things coming up kids ... I believe someone stated he was on the squad (post 5) but what would he know ..? Like Paul Harvey always said "Page Two" ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
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  6. Roger Coveleskie

    Roger Coveleskie Elite Poster Founding Member

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    El Paso. It was a question???? Did you not see the ? mark at the end of the sentence? Read the whole post, I tried to straighten out the facts at one time. I have nothing against the ATA. I have a lot against the self servers and some of the nefarious people that have sat on the EC counsel. Your reading comprehension needs a little help. Roger C.
     
  7. BigMonty

    BigMonty Member

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    Did you ask her who started the foul language or did she just not offer the information?
     
  8. Roger Coveleskie

    Roger Coveleskie Elite Poster Founding Member

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    She did not volunteer the info, and I did not ask. I would not expect a lady to start that kind of language. I wish Osker had not waited so long to make his post. Roger C.
     
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  9. P-MX10

    P-MX10 Member

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    Anti ata? Lololol. I shoot over 7,000 registered targets a year.

    The politics of this sport, is why I've never tried to get in to them.
     
  10. P-MX10

    P-MX10 Member

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    I posted in this thread, I think I on page 1.
     
  11. Roger Coveleskie

    Roger Coveleskie Elite Poster Founding Member

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    MX10, I did not see it. I will look for it. Roger C.
     
  12. Bobby

    Bobby Member

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    Wow! This seems like a rerun of the never ending movie. Lots of speculation and few facts. My question is: "Did the ATA/EC ever publish the "facts" of the investigation and suspension?" Also, non subject related question: "Is the post regarding Mr. Schaeffer not being able to be in possession of a gun accurate and if so why?"
     
  13. Mike J

    Mike J Mega Poster

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    I hope this guy will be back soon. Hey Dave, the Northeastern Grand is coming up. You are always welcome in New York.
    David Shaeffer.jpg
     
  14. Bobby

    Bobby Member

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    It has been suggested that Mr. Schaeffer because of a non shooting related incident is not able to be in possession of firearms any longer. Does anyone have information on this? If it is not true there should be a clarification and apology posted here.
     
  15. Bobby

    Bobby Member

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    Does anyone know what city in Maryland that David Shaeffer Jr. lives in? And a very odd (but telling?) silence here about clarification of a as yet unsubstantiated accusation against this man. Very unfair and should be corrected.
     
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  16. User 1

    User 1 Moderator Founding Member

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    Look at post number 2 or post number 571 on this thread ...... Not sure if it is still accurate ......
     
  17. Bobby

    Bobby Member

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    Thank you user 1...I find it sad and inexcusable that someone can openly accuse or even suggest another is guilty of something here without being held accountable through posting factual information to back up the claim. It would seem since the accuser remains silent that Mr. Shaeffer is owed an apology.
     
  18. trappermike

    trappermike Active Member

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    Maybe the accuser works for the New York Times.
     
  19. Brad's friend (I hope)

    Brad's friend (I hope) A NoBody Founding Member

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    Maybe it's a NEW ATA challenge called Backwards Trap ???

    Where Post 1 is actually 5, 4 IS 2, 3 IS 3, 2 is 4, 1 IS 5

    OOPS, more trophies to be bought...
     
  20. Scotlandish

    Scotlandish New Member

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    The ATA world needs every shooter it can get. This whole story is hard to believe. The part where someone in the following squad supposedly saw everything is over the top.
     
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  21. Welther

    Welther Active Member

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    Not my idea but the forum failed here. A go fund me account should have been started for this stuff.
     
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  22. ebsurveyor

    ebsurveyor Well-Known Member Founding Member

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    Never to late, get one started. Name me as administrator and I'll make sure that Big Dave gets some of the money.
     
  23. Welther

    Welther Active Member

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    Dave gets some of the money?

    Sure. After you draw a graph and take your $16,000 gun.
     
  24. ammo

    ammo Member

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    Go fund me. Now that is funny, hasn't he taken enough of your money over the years. Everyday a sucker is born.
     
  25. Union Strong

    Union Strong Well-Known Member

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    My pals tell me Dave is shooting again.
     
  26. Ron Burdick

    Ron Burdick Active Member Founding Member

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    If that is true, he should be in Tucson next week.
     
  27. harryone

    harryone Moderator

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    Not my thread or area on the forum but I will bite.
    I have read everything here, please tell us what you heard.
     
  28. harryone

    harryone Moderator

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    MOT. You said
    Please tell us what was heard. f am sure many here if not thousands that have read this thread want to know what other information or story is out there.

    I am only asking that you share it. This site is about getting the information out. If you have heard anything please share it. I was not at the shoots with you. Thanks for lurking.
     
  29. harryone

    harryone Moderator

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    I differ with Rookieshooter. I am capable of deciding for myself what is out there. Merlo says I can decide. Give me the information.
     
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  30. HistoryBuff

    HistoryBuff Elite Poster Founding Member

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    I too would appreciate learning what your research produced.
     
  31. Just Joe

    Just Joe Administrator

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    MOT.....so you came on here to say you have nothing to say while implying some here should not be discussing anything. I will leave your posts of nothingness for a very short time. Then I will take them down.
     
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  32. HistoryBuff

    HistoryBuff Elite Poster Founding Member

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    Well MOTrp725,

    I usually appreciate the opinions of others, even when they differ from my own.

    I didn't ask for names or anything that might be construed as confidential.

    You said you researched the incident and implied you have conflicting details. I asked that you share your conflicting information. That's a discussion. That's what we do here.

    I must admit, your unwillingness to provide a general summary of what you've uncovered or discuss the subject further, has left me scratching my head, wondering why you commented at all.

    HB
     
  33. rickyd

    rickyd Active Member

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    Ditto

    Also, I see Dave has not shot any registered targets yet this year. Any recent news on him?
     
  34. Roger Coveleskie

    Roger Coveleskie Elite Poster Founding Member

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    I thought I saw David's name on the score board at the Autumn Grand. last month. Roger C.
     
  35. TSWEAR

    TSWEAR New Member

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    There is a Jr and a Sr Shaeffer.
     
  36. Par4

    Par4 Well-Known Member

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    Shows a Donald Schaffer, Jr. from PA as having shot the Autumn. I tried other spellings with no luck.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 9, 2018
  37. frostyman

    frostyman Active Member

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    According to the ATA EC minutes that were just posted shows the following for David Shaeffer Jr. Below are 2 of the items about it.

    5. Correspondence concerning money that David Shaeffer, Jr. (#90-01762) 114
    paid to the South Carolina Trapshooting Association. Delegate Jim Faber 115
    acknowledged the receipt of $368.00 for trophies received by Mr. 116
    Shaeffer at the 2018 South Carolina Sate Shoot. Since Mr. Shaeffer was 117
    not a resident of South Carolina, he was required to return the resident 118
    trophies that he received or the cost of said trophies. 119

    6. Report from former ATA President Ray Greb concerning the incarceration 120
    and confiscation of guns of David Shaeffer, Jr. (#90-01762). Court case 121
    Number 0804 SP 03580 2018 in the District of Baltimore County, 122
    Maryland, is a domestic violence case against James David Shaeffer Jr., 123
    and a restraining order in the case required him to surrender his firearms. 124
    Mr. Shaeffer is currently suspended from the ATA, and all the members 125
    of the Executive Committee agree that the aforesaid suspension should 126
    not be lifted until the restraining order has been revoked. Subsequent to 127
    further discussion and review and upon Motion of Vice President Shaw 128
    with Second of Vice President Herman, and following the President’s Call 129
    of the Question, with no further response or comment, it was 130
    unanimously: 131

    RESOLVED, that the membership in the ATA of David Shaeffer, Jr. (#90-132
    01762) will not be reinstated until there is unequivocal proof that the 133
    restraining order in Case Number 0804 SP 03580 2018 in the District of 134
    Baltimore County, Maryland, is revoked as it pertains to the surrender of 135
    firearms by Mr. Shaeffer.
     
  38. Par4

    Par4 Well-Known Member

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    Frostyman:

    Those minutes certainly sum up the current state of affairs. Thanks!

    I do not know the particular fact scenario which led to granting of the RO (restraining order) or the family code in that State. However, I will offer some insight for the edification of other members.

    The Laugtenberg Amendment was named for the former US Senator from NJ. The Amendment added such RO and/or conviction of a misdemeanor crime of domestic violence to 18 USC 922. 18 USC 922 contains a list of disqualifications for firearms possesion and other matters. The disqualification factors are demonstrated in the questions on Form 4473.

    Some States, allow the granting of a TRO in ex parte fashion. That is very common in divorce proceedings. California Judges, for example, can grant a TRO just for the asking in a divorce petition. So, it remains to be seen if the disqualification will become permanent in the case of this ATA member.
     
  39. jbailey

    jbailey Active Member

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    Well the ATA minutes seem to indicate that Mr. Shaeffer has more pressing issues than getting stuck hulls out of his gun. Unfortunately.
     
  40. jbailey

    jbailey Active Member

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    Maybe there was no comment from the ATA for legal reasons and a ruling from the state courts had to be made before you could sanction the accused. Whatever, the name calling, character assassination and BS ran very deep on this thread.
     
  41. ammo

    ammo Member

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    Does the ATA offer any anger management classes?
     
  42. Par4

    Par4 Well-Known Member

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    Jbailey:

    The ATA had to get this matter out into the minutes because someone took the step of making them aware of the existence of the RO. Now the courts do not do that. Some person or group of persons wanted to insure the ATA was aware for motives of his/her/their own.

    Anyone who is told by a court to surrender their firearms is going to be cautioned by the court as to the consequences of being caught with a firearm while the RO is in force. I do not know the man. However, I have no reason to think he is willing to risk turning a temporary restriction at this time into a felony possesion by prohibited person conviction.
     
  43. wpt

    wpt Ultra Elite Poster Founding Member

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    I do not know for sure what the issues are in this particular case but let us all recall when Justice Kavanaugh was accused of sexual misconduct by 3 or 4 woman, who have since recanted ... The way the Laws are today you do not have to do anything only be accused of such and you are considered guilty until proven innocent ... I personally know of more than one person who has been accused of domestic abuse and later cleared of all charges ... If a woman or man for that matter claims domestic abuse they automatically get charged and are arrested often with nothing for proof other than the other persons word ... I'm sure it will all come out in the wash one way or the other ... It sure don't make any man who abuses a lady a Hero in my book, or vice versa for that matter ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
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  44. Smithy

    Smithy Mega Poster Founding Member

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    HANKY LANKY!!!
     
  45. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Elite Poster Founding Member

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    As my lawyer once said, "if a woman asks for a PFA 21 times out of 22 it'll be granted"-right or wrong.
     
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  46. Smithy

    Smithy Mega Poster Founding Member

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    ATA used to have anger management classes. They were officiated in the parking lots.
    Now we have safe spaces. Another Minnesota idea I think.
     
  47. User 1

    User 1 Moderator Founding Member

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    Let me see if I , kind of, understand the ATA's policing objectives .....

    So the story goes ..... The female, after the end of the Event confronted the male in the story ..... causing the male to act in some over-the-top manner .....

    So, by the ATA's policing standards ..... the male could have sought a "restraining order" on the female for "starting" this nasty event, telling the court/judge he "feared" more of the same may happen in other Events .....

    Then, if the "restraining order" was granted to the male, the female would be under ATA suspension until she could provide "unequivocal proof that the restraining order is revoked" .....

    Heck ...... I shot every week with someone who put a mag full of 9mm into someone's chest, served the time in prison, then shot many large ATA Events every year after serving the time ..... I guess the difference is who you "piss-off" .....
     
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  48. Par4

    Par4 Well-Known Member

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    They became even easier to get in many states following a highly publicized 1994 homicide case in Los Angeles. Prior to Lautenberg (1997), they were of no ownership/possession/surrender consequence. Now that the consequences exist; there is some potential for abuse by vindictive former intimate partners. The good news is they normally expire. So it really depends on the law in a particular jurisdiction.

    User1:

    These “orders” are normally seen in the case(s) of persons who shared sleeping arrangements as residents of the same state. I think this relates to another female.
     
  49. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Elite Poster Founding Member

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    I've had customers who've been divorced for 10 years and the PFA was supposedly dropped at the settlement. It still remains on his record and he is unable to purchase a firearm. They often times don't disappear.
     
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  50. wpt

    wpt Ultra Elite Poster Founding Member

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    My Ex claimed that I hit her then she changed her story during her testimony in front of the Judge, this was over 35 years ago … I still have a 3 day waiting period to this day if I buy a gun, I also have a CCW but when they call it in they tell them 3 days … I do not argue with them but with the CCW I am supposed to be able to walk in and buy a gun without any wait, have done that also … The way the laws are all they have to do is say they thought you were going to hit them and your screwed ( 35 years + ) WPT … (YAC) …
     
  51. Par4

    Par4 Well-Known Member

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    @User 1:


    The Lautenberg Amendment, inserted into 18 USC 922, concerms domestic violence (misd) convictions and intimate partner protective orders. 18 USC 922 defines prohibited persons for the purposes of firearms. The others are from the NFA and/or GCA.

    Most States have some sort of protective relief by some name for other kinds of disputes between parties. However, those orders do not rise to the level of 1he 922 definition.

    If you are saying the State where DS hangs his hat has a law to protect a resident of any other State by a 922 like state law authority sanction; I would be interested in the particular statute. If you are saying the intimate partner, beneficiary of the relief, is other than female; I have no desire to have such information.
     
  52. frostyman

    frostyman Active Member

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    I don't think that this restraining order has anything to do with the incident involving another ATA shooter. It is a court case in Maryland.
     
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  53. Flyersarebest

    Flyersarebest Moderator Founding Member

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    I think you are correct sir. If you search back through the posts you will see that mentioned.
     
  54. merlo

    merlo Mega Poster

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    Schaeffer sighting. There has been a sighting of a slimmer Dave Schaeffer. Reports are that he is as much as 70 pounds lighter. I don't know if he has been training, or why he is so much slimmer. I am sure someone out there is more in the know than me.

    I report. You decide.
    Merlo out
     
  55. davidson

    davidson Active Member

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    The stars are now aligned. The final signs are here. Schaeffer is skinny. The ATA admits they are losing money. And a new shooting group boasting about more competitive targets is lurking.
     
  56. LimaShooter50

    LimaShooter50 Active Member Founding Member

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    Now I am interested!

    So in the minutes, there is mention that "Ray Grebb Former ATA President" had a report. Why the title ATA President?
    Why not just say he was the delegate? It was a delegates job to get involved. Not a former "ATA President".

    Guessing this is all about egos.
     
  57. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Elite Poster Founding Member

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    Ya mean Ray can read?
     
  58. wpt

    wpt Ultra Elite Poster Founding Member

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    If you read the minutes anyone with 10 cents worth of brains or common sense can see why the EC, ED, and BOD do not want to let anything happen for them to be eliminated or anything get in the way of them having their expenses paid for by the Members ... Now, we the Members carry a $250,000.00 Life Policy on the ED besides pay for the EC to have all the comforts provided for them and collect in excess of $180.00 per day while attending shoots if its designated as official ATA business, not bad for volunteers ...? The ATA will do anything they can to keep the Cash Cow 's cash flowing regardless of circumstances, that you can bet on ... WPT ... (YAC) ...
     
  59. SCTPKANSAS

    SCTPKANSAS New Member

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    SCTP treats members better for sure.
     
  60. PaulLori27

    PaulLori27 Active Member

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    You might think Gipson needed the 20 entries for the grand.
     
  61. Flyersarebest

    Flyersarebest Moderator Founding Member

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    Not really aligned yet.

    When they get more than the PATHETIC numbers for the GAH than the have for the last 10 years at that place in
    ILLNEWS then the stars will be aligned.

    Of course hell will be frozen over by then.
     
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  62. BRAD DYSINGER

    BRAD DYSINGER Founding Member Member Trapshooting Hall of Fame Founding Member

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    I just caught up with the Dave Schaeffer story that I'd missed for the last few months. The irony of the times at the ATA is a wonder. The ATA has a target claimer for president, who in fact wasn't elected ATA delegate one year but still refused to leave his seat (and the ATA stayed out of it) but today you have a former ALL American shooter who was a paid member and never to my knowledge a target claimer sets on the sidelines.

    When I lived in Maryland the residents of the Eastern Shore referred to a Baltimore resident as a Baltamooran's. Well earned I might add so I take any legal crap out of Maryland like I do out of Chicago for what it's worth. The ATA EC says nothing about the crooks of pull 2012, the EC's conflict of interest on just about everything, cheating on the basics of the game whether you broke the target or not but cover your ass over a restraining order. .

    I don't know what Dave did or didn't do but I do know what every other thing in this post I'm talking about to be TRUE. The ATA has become a Shit Show organization.

    I remember talking to Ray Greb about moving the grand to Sparta in 2004, 2005 and he said to me that he didn't want his picture to be on the wall as one of the Presidents that let the ATA go to hell. I guess you missed that Ray because I know that you know exactly that is what has happened.

    The shoots we used to have a Thurmont were some of the best State Shoots I ever attended anywhere and the Maryland Association shoots at the clubs were great. I'm disappointed that more former EC's have chosen to do nothing and say nothing and say nothing and say nothing. Oh have I said that I'm disappointed in you Ray. I always thought you had a big set but like to many Republicans you've forgotten how or when to use them, sad I pushed you for VP as you remember, remember how I told you about the bull shit those long ago Eastern Zone delegates were planning, and how you used your balls back then and called out those involved. So I know you once had the best interest of trap shooting but what when wrong?

    So Dave if your still around good luck because I've known a lot of shooters who have done a lot worse and had no punishment because of who they knew or who they were. The thing I see you most guilty of is being to good a shot in today's xxxxx driven ATA ribbon shooters. Brad
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 11, 2019
  63. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Elite Poster Founding Member

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    I'll drink to all of that.
     
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  64. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Elite Poster Founding Member

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    Target claimer by some-useful idiot by others. Shameful from all!
     
  65. BRAD DYSINGER

    BRAD DYSINGER Founding Member Member Trapshooting Hall of Fame Founding Member

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    ollie I just wonder when these guys lost their gonads. You and I both know of a lot of worse stuff that happened at PA back in the day than what Dave was accused of. I have lost so much respect for so many shooters that I thought were OK. I thought Ray would be a stand up guy.

    I don't know if you remember E.G. Adams or not but E.G. was one of my best friends and he always told me that he thought the Mason's had something to do with why a Stand Up guy would say one thing and then after he got to be a VP do another. Maybe E.G. was right, I don't know if most or all the past presidents were Masons but I know a lot were.

    Leo and I always thought it was that white VP hat, once it went on someones' head all honesty and common sense left. Just our opinion.

    Who was right Leo and I or E.G. but it sure as hell is something that happens? I have, had, hope for Paul Shaw, I never had hope for the Pipe Lier target claimer, a cheater is always a cheater to me. Brad
     
  66. oleolliedawg

    oleolliedawg Elite Poster Founding Member

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    Brad, I believe old E.J. was onto far more we know. It seems when some take that oath it's their job to cover each others asses when obviously wrong. Heck, members (fellow masons) who claimed thousands of targets got away with a simple slap on the hands here in PA. Oh, they'll go into denial or refuse to speak of the situation when confronted. Then there's individuals with atrocious reputations who join simply for the benefits accorded fellow members. I wish I could think otherwise but I've seen way to many unscrupulous dealings by some members. Maybe it's good I ignored several offerings to join. For the record, I also have faith in Paul Shaw-mason or not.
     
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  67. Flyersarebest

    Flyersarebest Moderator Founding Member

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    "Heck, members (fellow masons) who claimed thousands of targets got away with a simple slap on the hands here in PA."

    Ladies and Gentlemen, please meet the 2014 grand American handicap champion.

    Working the system!!! Yeah man!
     
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  68. rookieshooter

    rookieshooter Elite Poster

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    I miss ole EG Adams, the Delmarva peninsula and Rappa brand scrapple.
    I got a real funny story about EG Adams, and his traveling partner who I forgot his name who lived in Del.
    EG gave me one of his family owned business hats which had their logo Rappa Brand scrapple on it when I was shooting ''The Golden West Grand''. Well, his friend who was an optometrist from Del. at that time did not know me and did not know that EG had given me that hat the day before at the club. When he was looking for EG he spotted me with what he thought was EG's own hat. He damn near sh#t himself. At this time of my life I had long hair and a beard. He thought that I had done some foul play to his buddy Finally he found EG and we all had a good laugh.
     
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  69. HistoryBuff

    HistoryBuff Elite Poster Founding Member

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    Wow, now there's a name from the past. Edgar Geoffrey Adams, of Greenwood, DE. Real good shooter, Delaware State First Team and 1982 State Singles Champion finishing the year with a .9807 average.

    He passed November 23, 2004 and sadly, I've never come across a Completed Career write-up for him.

    I remember E. G. pacing the line watching for shooters claiming targets.

    1982 State Singles Champ.jpg
    Scan0154 - Copy.jpg

    RAPPA SCRAPPLE, The_Morning_News_Wed__Oct_20__1976_.jpg
     
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  70. BRAD DYSINGER

    BRAD DYSINGER Founding Member Member Trapshooting Hall of Fame Founding Member

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    Rookieshooter, I think your talking about Henry Sonders. I may have spelled his last name wrong but EG was always telling me a Henry story.

    Walt Marvel from Del. was EG's friend and was one former ATA president that didn't hide his disgust for the move to Sparta and the BS that the then EC was pulling. The old EC VP's from when you and I started were a whole different can of beans that the last 20 years worth.

    I went goose hunting with Walt and EG one year and the limit in Del. that year was two. The first pair of geese that came in I shot and Walt informed me that my limit was done. EG laughed at because he and I had set it up before the hunt for me to do it if I got the chance. EG was the best long range goose shot I ever saw. Brad
     
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  71. Dave Berlet

    Dave Berlet Founding Member Member Trapshooting Hall of Fame Founding Member

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    For quite a few years I shot in the same squad with E. G. during the Grand.The squad consisted of Jerry Russo, Tom Wilkinson,E. G., myself and over the years we had several different shooters fill the fifth spot. I just saw in Trap&Field that Charles Austin has passed. One of E.G.s good friends. E.G. and I became very good friends and even after he quit shooting ATA we talked on the phone about once a week until his passing. My 14 year old Britney who I got about two weeks after his passing is named Edgar in his honor. Also I used to love to hear E.G. tell stories about some of the old time Delaware shooters. Mentioning E.G. sure brought back some great trapshooting memories. One year Brad and I bought a cake for E.G.s 40th birthday which was during the Grand.

    Dave Berlet
     
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