Browning SCTP Nationals Scholarship

http://sssfonline.org/browning-scholarship-awarded-to-top-browning-shooter-at-sctp-finals/

 

Very good news Jake! A big THANK YOU to Browning for their continued support for the SCTP!

 

Great news Jake! Keep us updated.

 

Thank You Browning for your support of the SCTP Program, and your generosity for the Scholarship.

Gary Bryant...................................Dr.longshot

 

The Cardinal Center had nothing to do with this scholarship.

 

No one said it did?
The SCTP Nationals will be at the Cardinal Center. You have to be there to win!

 

Some of the other posted replies appeared to think the CC had something to do with it.

I was just clarifying that it was nothing to do with the Cardinal Center.

 

Bob

Please quote where someone even remotely posted that. This was an SSSF press release. They and you are the only two that mentioned the Cardinal Center. Something bothering you?

 

Since there are only 3 posts between CCjake's first, which is a link to the announcement, and your "clarification" why don't you post which one "appears" to be stating the Cardinal Center had something to do with it.

 

And bob, for all YOU know maybe moving the Nationals from that place in Il. DID have something to do with Brownings decision after all.

 

Jake posted the link to the SCTP.
The next 2 posts thanked him.
It appeared to me that those posters think Jake has an inside to the SCTP or SSSF.
Anyone can sign up for the SCTP/ SAPP " Range Time" Newsletter that is sent via email every week. You can get the news yourself.

And yes, something is bothering me.

I've read and heard for years all the bitching about the ATA moving to Illinois from Ohio.

I believe it only fair to complain about the moving of the SCTP Nationals to Ohio from Illinois.

Now the Cardinal Center is stepping up to create a place to host the SCTP Nationals. I appreciate that they have the means to be able to do this for at least this year. Maybe more. NOBODY, I REPEAT, NOBODY KNOWS IF THEY HAVE A CHANCE OF GETTING THE EVENT AGAIN!

Where was the Cardinal Center when the ATA was looking for a new home? Why didn't they step back then? If they had, there would be no issue, right?

 

ShotgunBob...fine but again you post shows how clueless you are to the facts. And you dont have a clue.

1. The IDNR dumped the SCTP. On only a few weeks notice Jack Fishburn bailed out the SCTP for the Collegiate Championships.

 

There ya go everyone, according to bob, if the CC would have just stepped up we wouldn't have the grand in the middle of friggin nowhere and the attendance for the GAH would be a lot better than the lousy numbers that place in Il. has.
JHC, I've read some dumb things posted by the handful of " the ata is all knowing" and "Sparta forever" boys but this last one is the dumbest.

 

ShotgunBob

To hammer the fact that you are absolutely clueless you made the following statement.

1. Jake and Luke run the CC. Jake is the OP. Jake and Luke were there for the contract negotiations. I am sure they talk almost daily to Tom Wondrash, Director of the SCTP. They have an inside track.

ShotgunBob......screw the vowels. Buy a clue.

 

Jack Fishburn and Co. at the Cardinal Center are investing millions for the SCTP kids. Volunteers are there to help as well.

Why would they be planning to erect a building for the SCTP if they were going to lose them?

Great to have you here Shotgun.....you made my day. lol

 

ShotgunBob

You may change your mind after your visit.

As per whether the SCTP will go back.....

Let's make a wager. Not a small one. Make one that will remind you of your post. Make a wager that will hurt. As you say no one has an inside track or idea about the SCTP and their stay at the Cardinal Center. Should be an even up bet right? After all what could I know? We both front the money to Dysinger. So tell me how large a wager would it take to reinforce the issue?

Until then.....enjoy the ride for the kids. They have a lot to look forward to.

 

The Fix was in with the State of Illinois, nobody knows for sure who got what from who or who had the most to gain but there were members of the BOD, EC who were telling everyone how great Sparta was and they had never even been there ... If you have enough money and the right connections you can do anything, anyplace, and get away with it , it happens all the time in the State of Corruption (Illinois) and obviously was happening in Ohio back then also ... If anyone thinks for one second Sparta got to be number one without some big time graft being handed out, I got some really bad news for you ... The ATA had paid for set guidelines (due diligence) that had to be a part of any deal, until they eliminated that by virtue of a lease rather than purchase , which they could of had and done but the people who offered it got treated like they were from a THIRD WORLD COUNTRY and ignored after that ... The ATA is as Corrupt as the State of Illinois and has been since before the move to Illinois came about, it will continue on the same track until they get prosecuted for their actions and go sit with Blago in the Federal Pen so they can think about it and figure out if it was worth it ...
The Cardinal Center is and will be "The Place", long after the facility in Sparta is long gone , its deteriorating already from shoddy workmanship ... The folks at SCTP did the right thing at the right time, and will probably never look back ... They will be better off and much happier at the Cardinal Center for many years to come ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

PumperBoob, to be ignorant of ones ignorance is actually quite entertaining to others. Please continue, as your insight provides many with continual chuckles.

 

I'm glad and grateful that the Cardinal is able to accommodate the SCTP.

I also hope that Illinois can get their act together sometime in the future.

I live 7 hours closer to Sparta than I do to the Cardinal Center.

I don't have to like the move just like you guys don't have to like Sparta.

 

Was the Cardinal Center in existence when the ATA was looking for a new home?

If so, was it on the list to be considered for the new location?

If not, then why not?

Who owned the Cardinal Center at the time of the move?

Would the Cardinal Center be investing all this for the AIM Nationals if there was no SCTP program?

 

Pumpgun....

If AIM is abandoned then I will make one more wager with you. The Cardinal Center will do whatever they can to rescue AIM.

The other stuff you can research on your own. What I tell you wont matter.

 

Thanks to the CC for stepping up. Also major kudos to Browning.

 

So the main reason you posted that stuff about the pond and the windmill was just your frustration with the SCTP leaving that place in Il. that is only an hour or so from your house?

If Mr. Fishburn's facility was only an hour drive you would never posted any of it and you wouldn't think twice about that other place that had to close?

Have a nice ride. I think the first year will be a little bit of a learning curve when it comes to directions and the best roads to take to get to THE CARDINAL CENTER in OHIO but after two or three years you will be a pro at it.

Hell, after 10 years you can come on here and tell all the new kids how great the CARDINAL CENTER in OHIO really is.

 

PumpgunBob
Good luck with your trip to the CC. Your kid(s) will enjoy the place. My advice is to keep pretending you dont want to go. The kids will appreciate your sacrifice more.

 

Maybe..... Maybe not.

I hope to be there for the SCTP Nationals. Then I will be able to see for myself and form my own opinion.

Have you been to the WSRC yourself, or are you one of those that refused to go because it's in Illinois?

 

It looks like you already formed your opinion above! Yes, I have shot at the WSRC and it was very nice when I was there in 2010. I may even go back sometime if it survives.

 

I'm not sure anyone harbors any hard feeling for Illinois, Sparta, WSRC, IDNR as people think they do ... The majority of people who are not happy with the situation is not what was done, but more so how it was done by the ATA way back when ... The ATA paid a lot of money to have an out side source set up "due diligence" then they circumvented it by getting involved in a lease rather and a purchase of their own property which was the initial intention so they said ... The cost factors (investment) made that less than ideal so they opted for the least favorable site based on them having to invest (not) the least amount of money in Sparta, Illinois ...

There was property offered in Amarillo, Texas with low or no interest loans available for development and without any consideration the people from Texas got ignored and treated like they were from a Third World Country by the relocation committee and they moved on ... The grand is a 2 week shoot at best, if any certain time of the year was found to be better or in the best interest of the shoot it could of been moved to make it more appealing ... There were ridiculous numbers thrown around by the ATA EC. that probably had a lot to do with convincing the State of Illinois to do a rush job on the facility to get it ready for the grand and all of those people who attend and visit , those numbers were and have never been reached before or since the move to Illinois ... People ( shooters, members, vendors )made sure the ATA knew they were going to make them pay with their wallets if they made the move and that has happened every year since they went against what was laid out as intentions to the shooters, members, vendors, proof being in the attendance records ...

The State of Illinois is in financial distress which places the facility, IDNR, WSRC, in their Bulls Eye after realization the place does not only not generate any revenues but it loses (adds to the State deficit) money on an annual basis to the tune of over $23 million in 11 years ... The simplest math cannot change that and the ATA can talk all they want about "fantastic direction" and how this was going to be the year it all came together and made it happen .... The State is now convinced and knows for a fact "ITS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN", the sooner or later is NEVER ... Built it and they will come went out the window when they built it and no body showed up the first year and every year since ... (10/20 Million to the local economy and region ..? 20/30 million to the region over all ) The State knows better and can thel them exactly how much money was "NOT" generated and it will not be a "guesstimate" like the numbers that get thrown around as factual, which they (ATA) really have no way of knowing for sure ...

The ATA's best option would be to regroup and make arrangements to vacate the WSRC, State of Illinois and move on ... If the ATA made concessions and cut deals to hold the grand at established clubs so they only had to sit back and collect a percentage they could cut the numbers of EC members, eliminate the ED, and make the BOD do their jobs as intended ... The numbers would probably (more than likely) start to increase immediately and everyone would be happy except the EC members and ED who's position were eliminated at a great savings to the Association ... The time has come for MAJOR Changes, it can be done, but can't be done in Sparta, Illinois ... This type of move might not make all of the resident shooters from Illinois and those 3 or 4 from Sparta happy, probably never shoot again like they never shoot before the move ... The TIME has come to get back on track and move on ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

PumpgunBob

Word of advice. You may think the Kool aid served in the west is addictive after a few drinks. Be careful not to eat too many of these.



You will find them at the Fishburn concessions. Too many and you will be shaped like me. They are made by previously native Amish gals.

Good luck to your kids(s).

 

Those custard eclairs are a weakness I have had since being a kid ... We didn't have a lot of money so we would have to share one, I have made up for that many times over once I could buy my own ... I have actually sat down and ate enough of them things until I was sick, but I got over it ...... Few of those and a hot coffee, could be breakfast for me ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

WPT,

You mentioned Amarillo,Texas.
If the ATA would have moved there how many more ATA members from the east do you think would have shown up.
Amarillo would be at least 14/16 hours further west and south of Sparta.

 

Pumpgun Bob,
The grand is a 2 week affair, many people would fly to the grand when it was in Ohio as well as in Illinois ... If the shoot was held at the ATA" home grounds" in Texas I honestly think (feel) you would of had a better turn out and a lot more support from the members ... The facility (WSRC) as it is does not have the facilities in the general area of the site so the additional travel eliminates many shooters after they experience it for awhile ... The land that was available ( 2 sections) in Texas was close to over 14,000 hotel/motel rooms, more establishments to eat at than anyone could imagine, less than a 20 minute drive to the air port and the ATA would of owned not rented and eliminated being subject to what is happening now ... The low or no interest loans were available and mentioned many times by some of the people involved ... It may not of been to every ones liking but they would of owned and held interest in the facility which is something most members were interested in ... The State of Illinois actually walked away at one point when they got ignored at the grand in Ohio and then all of a sudden it was a go in Illinois ... There were many ways mentioned for them to be able to afford the ownership and it all got ignored, so what ever they get now is exactly what they deserve ... It has cost the ATA dearly and that is one thing that is certain to continue unless they make some major changes ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

WPT,
I agree that the WSRC is not in the best location due to the proximity of available motels and shopping.
Had Illinois built it closer to Belleville or Ofallon or even a little farther east like near Mt Vernon where the major interstate highways are it could have been better.

The problem with that is a parcel of land the size of the current WSRC would likely been hard to obtain.
The land where it is was reclaimed strip mines and actually lays almost perfect for the way it is built.

I thought at the time it was built it was strange that the state was actually doing it. I don't know how the IDNR is totally funded. Obviously through taxpayer obligations.

In Missouri, the Conservation Dept. Is pretty much self supporters. In 1976 they got a 1/8 of 1 percent added to the state wide sales tax. It was supported by state wide votes. That money has amounted to millions and is solely for the use of the Conservation Dept. No other state agencies can touch it.

It's a shame that the WSRC wasn't built another 100 miles farther west.

Another question is, I heard the Missouri Trapshooters home grounds were also considered and with 60 traps and plenty of parking and the location of the Lake of the Ozarks right there with hundreds of motels, restaurants,campgrounds and shopping what happened to that?

That was in my opinion a no brainer. Probably the MTA didn't want to be too far in bed with the ATA. What's your opinion?

 

PumpgunBob, Back when I used to shoot in Missouri a lot with Leo I remember his granddad talking about why a big shoot in the summer wouldn't work at the MTA. The Missouri State shoot is always in May before the kids get out of school and the motels around the Lake aren't full with the summertime crowd. Granddad said that the traffic on the two lane (back then) and all the summer visitors made a shoot even as large as the Missouri State shoot hard to happen, it was hard to find workers and hotel space. I don't know about today but Missouri back then was way to smart and competent to get into bed with the ATA.

In fact the first mid western grands were held at the MTA but real fast it became the Mo Fall handicap and cut out the 10 g's that Mo had to pay the ATA for a satellite grand. As far as I know Mo is the only state to use there brains when it comes to a satellite grand and the cost VS the benefits. Brad

 

I feel, and I cannot and will not profess to speak for the folks in Missouri or Lynn Creek, but I got a feeling your right about not wanting to get into the mix (bed) with the ATA anymore than they are already ... The folks at Lynn Creek do a great job and draw major crowds that the ATA benefits from as does the Cardinal Center, Tucson Trap and Skeet, just to name a few clubs that provide a lot of support to the ATA with the collection of daily fees ... The WSRC might well be one of the best thought out and least logically considered facilities to make it big time based solely on the lacking of amenities in and around the general area ... The State of Illinois was totally mislead into believing some of the numbers that were thrown around and stated as fact by the ATA, they were quite impressive to say the least if only they would of been obtainable which has proven to not be the case before or ever since ... If 100 miles would of made it easier to get to and from besides provide the needed amenities it may of worked out well, that like the Amarillo site can only be based on speculation and what could of , would of, or should of been ... The ATA was for warmed long enough in advance as they were negotiating so none of what has happened should (can) be a surprise to them ... The EC, ED, and many of the BOD who were sitting at the time are long gone, the can of worms continues to grow out of control because the Current EC, ED, and most of the BOD do not take steps to get the Association back on track and or at least headed in that direction ... The WSRC lets say is the absolute best and finest facility nation wide, but it can't draw a crowd which is what it takes to make it work, essentially what good is it ..? The ATA added a fee ($1) to each and every entry for years for relocation, its any body's guess where that money went to for sure, though you hear a lot or rumors that it was used for trap machines and or who knows ... This should not be in the keep it a secret file, the members have a right to know where their money went ... The ATA EC, ED, BOD answers to no one and that is one of the major problems that exists ... They are losing members faster than other member can recruit new members to replace the ones they lost and they do not seem to care, anyone can see the problem in that ... The ATA has changed and not for the better, it turned its back on the shooters, members, vendors, not the other way around ... Sincerely hope it works out, seriously doubt it but we will all see sooner or later and move on from there ... I actually joined as a Life Member at the second shoot I shot at over 40 years ago, I was impressed to say the least ... Depressed now, would be putting it mildly ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

The Major Corporations advertising dollars are budgeted and do not get spent on what they consider to be a waste,they want as much exposure as they can get once they commit to being involved ... My wife at one time was involved with part of the advertising agreements and contracts for a Major Corporation, she feels if they are involved they find some advantages that they obviously did not recognize at the WSRC , in Sparta, Ill ... The WSRC in Sparta might just be the shooters Paradise, but with no shooters what good does it do ..? The State built the facility and accepted the terms of $3 per based on what they thought was big numbers , compared to what they ended up with, which has cost the State to add to the deficit for the past 11 years which would not cause a person to find it to be a good investment ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

Browning would not put out the money if the shoot was going to fail.

 

The shoot won't fail no matter where it's held.
Cardinal Center, WSRC, San Antonio. It won't fail.

 

The Collegiate SCTP tournament was moved at the last second. (last year)

 

Pumpgunbob,

" The Shoot won't fail no matter where its held" , No thanks to the State of Illinois and them dropping a bomb at the last second (last year) ... Personally, I would have a problem dealing with any one , any company, any entity, any time after them having so little respect for another to stop everything mid stream when it was already on the schedule ... The SCPT organization and the Cardinal Center did what had to be done , its a manner of Honor and dedication that made it happen ... I would not ever give them any benefit of the doubt at any time in the future and would never do any business with them on a bet ... The WSRC is on life support and is beyond redemption having proved that is a loser many times over to the tune of well over $23 million in loses over 11 years ... They should bomb the place and be done with it, after all of Obama's refuges get situated ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

I was referring to the SCTP, NOT the venue.

 

So, I guess if everyone shows up for a scheduled shoot and all of a sudden the facility says "Nope not today, we are closed " its okay ..? I have a major problem with any place that could or would do something of that nature ... The SCTP is an established organization who had a shoot on the schedule and they had to move it at the last minute ... That is not right , I don't care who you are and if I were involved with the SCTP the WSRC would never have to worry about my crossing their path ever again ... Good for the SCTP and Cardinal Center, hope they build a long lasting relationship so they can preserve trapshooting long into the future ... They will still be around long after the WSRC is sitting there in piles ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

PoopgunBoober, the prime example of ignorance is bliss. Great entertainment for free.

 

Why WPT do you have to read something into a statement that is not there?

The SCTP did what they had to do last fall for the collegiate national and again what they had to do for the SCTP Nationals this year.

I wish they didn't have to but I'm not going to whine about it for 10 years .

I hope it all goes well this summer at the Cardinal. I plan to be there for the entire week.

I have nothing against the Cardinal at all. It my well and probably will become the SCTP Nationals home.

If it does then so be it. I will support the SCTP wherever they end up.

Ohio, Texas, Illinois or Timbukfreakingtu.

 

POOP GUN,
You just seems to think its okay, just saying" it ain't" ... I plan on making the Cardinal Center unless Doctors appointments get in the way, don't know the schedule for wifes follow ups yet, soon, very soon and go from there ... WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

See what I mean by reading what is not written?
What an asshole!

 

PoopgunBob,
Ignored, like talking to a toaster or my ex old lady ... He never says anything worth reading any way ...
WPT ... (YAC) ...

 

I was thinking the exact same thing, go figure!